Now I'm going to assume this is live.
So welcome to SportsCastr.
I'm Lawrence on with me today to go over the Thursday night football game is Adam and Adam.
Arm wrecked its German nature.
It's never gonna be the easy one to say.
Yeah, I always mess it up.
I always want to say armed, armed, bright, and I don't know why.
It's my diligence.
Such a bright guy.
That's insightful things to say.
Yeah, that's That's exactly right.
I almost had Joe here.
But, you know, Adam was like, No, not not today.
A lot go that route like we did last night.
Um, so Thursday Night football, it was, uh, two teams like I was mentioning, had a very rough week. One.
And this week, there was a little bit mawr positive notes to come out of this for both teams.
And I just wanted to, uh, hear some thoughts.
What are your initial thoughts of the game from last night? Yeah, you know, really, surface level.
I think that it's a good bounce back game for the Browns.
It helps balance out the things you were really concerned about.
If you're a Browns fan from week one you took on the Baltimore Ravens.
You expect to lose that game, but you don't expect to lose it the way they did right? You don't expect Baker toe look at bad.
You don't expect to see the drops from O. B J.
So they check a lot of boxes this week.
They continue to remind us that the offensive ground game is going to be key for them.
And they get a win that they should win on Cincinnati side of things again.
I think that they had some small positives and weak one for a team that we know is rebuilding.
And I think they got a little bit healthier in those areas this week, especially through Joe Burrow. Downside.
Maybe for them is that the defense of side of the ball is obviously going to be an issue for them.
You know, if you can't start to stop running attacks of other teams, you're gonna put Joe Burrow in a pretty dangerous spot in a week to week basis.
Took a lot of hits last night.
Got to protect a young quarterback.
Yeah, I I agree.
Um, pretty interesting that last night, Ray was talking about.
You cannot have twenty two total carries between Hunt and Chubb and expect to win the game.
And last night showed that twenty two carries by us by itself right over five and a half yards of carry had ten carries for over eight yards and carry.
They ran the ball down Cincinnati's throat the entire game.
Yeah, twenty three passes is all he had to do that that game, and he had that one interception.
But that was kind of a chunk past that.
I I noticed in the third quarter or fourth quarter.
And it really didn't hurt him that bad because they were they were up by a nice big lead at that point.
Anyhow, uh, I just can't see.
I'm looking at Joe Burrow this week and last week, and there's not much of a difference in what I saw from him from week one to week two.
Hey, still throwing very short all the time.
Um, he had just a couple of passes that he completed that was in air past ten yards.
Hey, had sixty one attempt How in the world if you are coaching a team, do you allow your rookie quarterback in the second game to throw sixty one passes and have any hopes of winning this game.
That's the problem to May right? You could take the positives with threw for over three hundred yards, threw three touchdowns, didn't throw an interception.
So again, there's positive there.
You talked about it when we were together last night previewing this game.
A lot of his success is coming from the underneath stuff, a lot of shorter routes.
And by the way, they went five for five on fourth downs in this game when they needed to.
And they went through those consistently throughout the game because they understood.
We gotta keep trying to move this ball and get some points on the board.
So you like that.
He checked those boxes and his his little ten to fifteen yards out.
Rats at the sidelines, Those air crisp.
He's putting those on the money, but thirteen targets is you highlighted with a J.
Green before we started only three catches.
This wasn't last week for O.
B J, where ten targets only three balls, dropped balls, Burrows having difficulty finding that rhythm down the field.
Now, can you grow into that over time, certainly.
But to your point sixty one attempts, e know that you're looking at your team and you're saying we're going to struggle in protection.
Maybe we don't want to risk running and getting behind early and making it even more difficult of a task.
But you're gonna have to find that balance because you can't be throwing sixty plus times a game even in that with a great looking stat line.
You were still basically down to two scores throughout the second half of this one and trying to fight your way back.
So it's still not gonna be the recipe for success.
You gotta find a way to get mixing, rolling and have a balanced attack.
I mean, sixty one attempt and you say just a little over three hundred yards.
That's five yards per attempt, you know? And you take in that you're not gonna have a run game, because if you're if you're throwing it short, there's no reason for the safeties to worry about creeping up into the box because they know the Either the past is gonna be in their general vicinity or you're running the football, so you gotta be able to stretch that field once in a while.
You've gotta make passes downfield or or any any team you play is just gonna really condensed their their defense down and make it very, very difficult for you to make those high completion passes that Joe Joe Burrow has basically lived off of these first two weeks.
Seven for seventy two for Tyler Boyd.
Nice receiving game for him.
Uh, he starting tight.
End goes down, you see, sample comes in, he picks up seven for forty five over the back end of this one.
So, you know, spreading the ball around great.
I mean, you go down the list of Zuma who went out with the injury.
He had four mixing with four Higgins with three.
Mike Thomas with four right.
And then you get down to a J.
A little bit of disappointment because he is the big play guy on this roster, but he's spreading it around nicely.
It's just you gotta find a way to manufacture some of those deeper opportunities.
And unfortunately, though, while you want to see that the past attempts come down, he only has to hit a couple of those big looks a couple of those big shots early in the game, and all of a sudden he's a lot closer to three fifty passing yards.
And you got a J green on some of those big shots, so I don't know how far away they are offensively.
Then you go to the defensive side of the ball, and that's where you're gonna have an issue.
I think all season long for Cincinnati.
Oh, my goodness, there was.
I mean, they almost could not get any kind of pressure on Mayfield.
They couldn't stop the run for nothing.
Uh, they had no sacks.
They had that one interception, as I mentioned earlier.
Uh, but at that point, that was That was twenty eight sixteen when they get that interception.
So to your point, right, Europe twelve.
If you're Cleveland, that's the You took a shot.
If we get this right here, see you later.
Games over, you know, night.
So you don't mind the risk, thereby baker in that spot and you're still then asking Cincinnati who's only been able to slowly go down the field, make a quick score to really get back and so on.
So you don't you don't even mind that that much.
But when you're a defense, you need to make place where you're creating negative yards, if you whether it's a SAT, whether it's a tackle for loss, something to set an offense back occasionally.
And there was no sacks on Lee.
One tackle for loss by D.
J Reader when he came in and grabbed Chub in the background for a two yard loss.
You can't when you're fighting for your life right now you're down.
You need to give your offense some sort of help, which means you gotta be able to stop offenses and make them punt the football.
And if you can't get any kind of negative stops or or even just go, uh, they did have that one goal line stop, unfortunately, turned it right back over so that that stung as well, and I wondered about I don't get too specific into the play calling there, but you really got to think about what's our best method to get ourselves out there.
You got that? You got them to come across there and have the neutral zone infractions gave you a little bit of breathing room I I think coming off of getting that recovery there.
Just try to pound that ball with mixing a few times if you have to pump it away.
That's okay that you really survived a bad scenario there.
So trying to get borough to do something, he get ends up with the fumble, they get the recovery.
You're right back where you started.
So you probably go back and say we could play a little bit safer, at least in that specific spot of the game.
Yeah, because I'm looking.
You know, the Browns only punted once the whole game.
By the way, you're talking about that Cincinnati defense, and this is where you start to go in those numbers.
A little bit more like just a reminder on Lee twenty three first downs in this game for Cleveland.
They didn't need to do a lot, right? Did a good job on third downs when they had to just five of eight because they were getting first out first downs on early downs in their Siri's as well.
Thea, other number that jumped out to is eighty eight plays for Cincinnati toe, fifty eight for the Browns.
So you know they? They didn't They didn't need a lot to get a lot and all the pressure was about.
And it's a it's a good game plan.
About how long can we take on these drives and then still cap it off with a touchdown for Cincinnati? And every time that you didn't even on the opening drive, you end up with a field goal that right there you go.
Okay, you know that minus four, you want seven there, you get down an extra few points, and every time that happens throughout a game with this defense there, you know that it keeps getting a little bit wider and it keeps getting more and more difficult to think you can fight through it.
Can Cincinnati do anything about this offensive line? You know, you can try to You try to scheme, right? I mean, listen, I'm a Giants guy, right? And you look at our offensive line and we're young and developing and all those things you try to think about the tight end position and how you hold one of them in to help out with the blocks.
You try to think about using the running back for past protection specifically.
But, you know, listen, this is the line that you're living with right now, you know, unfortunately, and that's when you can get Joe Burrow in the draft. There's a reason.
And that means you have holes, other places on your roster.
So again, now you want to take the step back and say the same way that we don't wanna overreact to Cleveland in Week one or in Week two.
Same thing for Cincinnati.
You can get better.
And I think for a lot of these teams, if you're considered to be a back end of the league kind of team your ideas, but it's time we hit mid season.
We want to see growth across certain positions on the roster.
We want to see our offensive line.
Getting incrementally better doesn't mean we're gonna turn into a top ten offensive line.
But if you get incrementally better then by the back into the year you start to see Cincinnati winning a couple of these games that maybe early in the year they would even come close to being it.
Yeah, we we have discussed that earlier last night as well, about how, um, some of these teams, especially if you've got a new quarterback.
You're you're just not going to see, uh, what you expect from that team early on because they just haven't had the time toe coalesced with the rest of the offense.
Understand the playbook.
I When when people talk about quarterbacks and wide receivers getting on the same page, it's not just about the play itself.
It's about knowing where that receiver is going to be.
At what point of that route and and what time of the route, like so and and how they make their cuts.
Where do they like the football when it's passed to him? You know, if they got someone you know basically d****d over their back, do they want that passed way out front or they do.
They want it near.
You know, the ground.
You know, it's all sorts of little things that quarterbacks and wide receivers.
It takes time for them to kind of get that that whole idea of what each other likes.
And right now, when you got a rookie quarterback now granted throwing at sixty one times, I guess that's an idea of figuring out how what your receivers life we double up our weekly reps.
We get thirty two games worth of Rex into a season to burrow, but But you know you're right, though, too, and that's you talk about the offensive line as well.
So even on some of these deep passes, and that's where I'm really curious to keep watching Burrow because you know you're in college.
You're behind ls you? Obviously you gotta quality line in front of the time is there for you.
So even though he's off the mark on some of these deep passes in terms of location, of times, having enough opportunity step up in the pocket with consistency, make sure that the timing of the route what? When do I wanna be releasing this ball for a J Green? So that I'm catching him in stride that I am catching him coming out of his break? Like you say, All those little fine details are where you start.
You get thrown off a little bit because the offensive line gives a little and then you got to throw a little bit earlier.
Now a. J. Green trying get his head around a little bit quicker.
So some of those things drastically impact the result of those plays.
And then when you talk about the Tyler Boyd and the tight ends and then having nice receiving games, that's because those are a lot of safety safety valve routes, right? Those are the things that are supposed to develop early and then also have an opportunity to be looked at there, even if it is my first, second and third look, if you're coming across the field on a relatively ten to fifteen yard crossing route, Well, if you're there on the right side, you're hopefully still gonna be available to me when you get when you come across to the left hashes.
So that's why you're seeing those completions and it looks good again.
Gotta give him time.
And he took a set of the top.
He took a lot of licks in this one, and this is the thing that you hate to see about quarterbacks.
I don't know if I were talking about last night or in general with some other guys around, you know, go back to David Carr right when he go when he gets drafted.
When you goto a bad situation, you could just get shell shocked in your first season, and that could have long term, you know, impact on a young quarterback.
So even if it means sacrificing losses and you already losing anyway if you're Cincinnati.
But if it means sacrificing losses this season to make sure that you're keeping Borough upright and not having and take those ***ulative hits over the course of the game, you also have to think about that big picture.
Would I rather see them lose thirty five twenty four and have Borough take five less hits? Yeah, I like I would sign off on that as opposed to quote unquote being in it there for an onside kick at the end and having just him, Really, he got.
He ended up on on that fumble play down in their own zone.
He went down hard, chest, shoulder.
I mean, he went really took a lick there.
So those are things that the coaching staff has to look at and just say Franchise guy here, Fellas, we think we got a franchise got here, Got to keep him clean.
Gotta keep that jersey clean as often as possible.
So Alright, so Ray Ray said something in the chat here on SportsCastr, and I don't know if he was joking, but I just want to say one quick thing.
He says this season the Bengals could have a shot at Trevor Lawrence.
Um, so what if Borough, What if what we're seeing from borough is what we get from borough? He doesn't improve very much over the course of the season that his long ball just never really develops.
Um, does he end up taking? Does he end up, You know, understanding where Josh Rosen is because he ends up getting traded for the next, you know, first round pick.
Well, I mean that that that's really hard to say with a new coaching staff.
I I don't think that, you know, you come in there, Cincinnati, the plant.
This is the guy you identified, right? And he's a He's a home state guy.
So you want tohave him be the franchise guy? I'd be hard pressed to think that they would bail out on this after one season.
Now, like you say, if by the end of the year we talked about, I don't know the numbers from last night in terms of his deep ball accuracy wasn't great.
We could say that, at least for sure.
So if that if that holds all the way through the season, maybe, you know it keeps that red flag there.
But again, we're talking about the offensive line play and then, by the way, look down the schedule.
I know Jacksonville look good in Week one, but that's a winnable game, even for Cincinnati.
You think about getting down even further.
Washington They're going to see they're going to see my New York football Giants.
They're going to see the Miami Dolphins, So there's a handful of games here that that are winnable for them.
I think they're still going to find their way, even to four wins.
Let's say there's other teams that are going to be below that.
There's other teams.
They're going to struggle more now.
Interestingly enough, when you think about a Washington who upset Philly in Week one that that shuffles things all of a sudden all of a sudden, what that looks like a faras first overall pick your or that has a immediate ramifications on next year's draft.
So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
I don't think they'd be there.
If anything, if they end up with that first overall pick, what I think they're in a position to do is hold it. Ransom.
Yeah, You're gonna hold that thing ransom for whoever wants to come get him.
And then you're going to get everything you need to rebuild the offensive line to get additional defensive weapons.
Whatever you think you need on that team, that's the route that you're going to go.
So, yeah, you can't get you're not gonna get away from Borough after one year.
And I think it's a almost a embarrassment of riches if you go into the draft saying you're holding that number one overall pick.
But one thing that that would see in that situation where let's, let's, let's say hypothetically, it does go down to that situation.
Borough does not improve it all on his deep ball.
You have the first round pick.
You got the first pick of the draft.
You have the option.
You could trade out, get more picks, tryto give him or oven offensive line.
Maybe help your defense out a little bit or you trade borough and take Trevor Lawrence.
Now, if Trevor Lawrence ends up looking the same way as borough does because he has doesn't have an offensive line and no defense, then you look bad.
Or if you still have borough, you get him an offensive line, you get him a few Pete, and he still does not able to improve.
Then you look bad.
So it's really it's you really gotta make sure that your evaluation of the quarterback is dead on.
Yeah, well, and again because, right, you go into next year's draft and you say we're gonna move off a borough and go for Trevor Lawrence.
How how devalued is borough gonna be, right? You're not gonna get who.
What is someone going to give you for him? If you're looking to jettison him and you want to sit there one, it's gonna be like you said Josh Rosen scenario or something.
All right, let's all take a flyer on him and by the and then a year later, maybe I'll end up just straight cutting him from the team so that it's it's a hard spot for Cincinnati to make that kind of move, I think, because again, if Trevor Lawrence comes in, he may look better on deep balls.
He made you a lot of things better, right? Ah, a lot of people regard him as being maybe the best cube prospects since Andrew Luck coming out right and that's, Ah, high bar.
But if your offensive line is still bad and if your defense still isn't good now, you know, you say, Listen, we got this guy locked in for the next fifteen years, and that's awesome.
But that still means that you're another couple of years away from being ready to be able to be competitive.
So listen, I'm always a proponent off, building the team out around and being ready to plug in that final piece of quarterback, and that's a delicate balance when depending on where you are in the draft.
But I you don't wanna be the Cleveland Browns, you know, unless I know they won this game.
But you don't wanna be that the franchise that draft the quarterback every couple of years because you're always at the top of the draft, that's the last place you want to be.
So, for better or worse, Cincinnati, you're gonna try to develop and get these deep balls figured out for Joe Burrow.
So they're coming out a year.
Number one, you go. Fantastic.
We got our quarterback.
What else do we need to do from here? I agree. I agree.
I don't like how the Josh Rosen thing went down in the first place.
I think that if you're gonna, uh, invest a top ten pick in a quarterback, you definitely need to give him a little bit of time.
Now, in Cardinals defense, Kyler Murray is pretty solid.
That's you. Switch over to Cliff Kingsbury.
He says he wants his guy, right? So that's that's the weird spot to where I think again, From a franchise perspective to your point, you got to go.
Well, if we're drafting a franchise, you know, hopefully a franchise quarterback, then we probably wanna be committed to our coach, right? We wanna be committed to what we have here.
So even if you had the thought that if this doesn't go great, maybe we're gonna move away from our head coach, then I then you have to wonder again.
Then that's that spot about what's your conviction around Josh Rosen.
And if not, you look to maybe trade out of that spot and again build up the roster and then see what happens.
Because then once you know once you get the new head coach, he says, I want my guy.
Looks like it's the great move for them.
But you did have to turn that over.
And that's That's probably one of the rare cases of pivoting that quickly right off of, Ah, first round quarterback to a first round quarterback and actually finding yourself in a spot where your and then you go and get Hopkins doesn't hurt.
You know, they've really taken that jump now.
And they're in a great competitive spot relatively quickly to where you thought they would have been when they said new head coach were trading away. Rosen.
So, you know, that's a pretty rare occasion when that happens.
And I guess, technically, that could be what you would see in in, uh in Cincinnati if things went so horribly wrong and you had questions about the head coaches.
Well, I want to talk a little bit.
I don't play fantasy, but I know there's a lot of people on here that do.
I don't know if you do or not, But if you have a J.
Green right now, do you try to trade him out? I have him actually in my one league.
I took a flyer on him late in the draft, so I do run a couple of Do run through a couple of fantasy leagues.
Nice, solid performance had to push off there in the end zone.
Could have been a touchdown if he if he gets a clean No, listen to target numbers.
Air Good. You know the targets air. Good.
Now I will say last night.
I'm looking at that night and I go now.
He's starting to spread this thing around.
He's starting to go for the check down.
So the longer that that that that hangs on there, you could see a J ceiling come down a little bit.
But again, the targets are there.
I just I have to think that the deep accuracy or even just the deep luck, right.
He had that one deep.
All that was just off the hand of a J. Green.
And that's it's marginal, right? It's marginal.
By the way, maybe A.
Green is making the adjustments to help out the young quarterback.
Right? He goes, Listen, if you're gonna throw me a little long, great, I'm gonna be ready to dive out for that ball.
But you're ready to make that little adjustment, Maybe to the inside of the hash, because your balls trail into the middle of the field as opposed to the outside, you know, out to the sideline.
So there's a there's just get made.
I hold on to him, at least for another week or two.
And then, by the way, if he has a couple of nights stat lines in those games, all things being equal in that offense, maybe you get a chance to sell him high.
The other back end thought can be, too, is you get to the middle of the season.
Depending on record.
Bangles may look to, you know, he may get moved to a contender team if he's proven that he is healthy and ready to go.
So you start getting some teams sniffing around him Now, from a fantasy perspective, he may end up on a really great situation.
Where has better Q B played down the stretch? Well, that's that is possible is well over to the Browns.
What about O B J? What do you think about him? Fantasy wise right now from week to week two.
Yeah, he's still that.
I mean, listen, he's still the most dynamic player that they have on that roster, but you look back at the game last night.
It's through chub.
It's through hunts.
You know, they're going to rely on the running offense every single week that they're capable of it, right? That's gonna be the challenge for any defense that takes them on.
Can you stop our run game? If you do that, then we'll start to worry about really these big plays.
You mentioned Baker only throwing for a couple hundred yards there.
So he's a bit of a boom or bust, really? On a week to week basis.
If he gets the big with a thirty five yard touchdown from from Baker.
That's gonna make his week for you.
You still have Jarvis Landry.
You look like you may have tweaked something there along the way in this game, I thought, uh, you saw Borough start to rely on that tight end pretty heavily and sample there, so I'm sorry, but I'm going on the wrong side of this, you know, it's That's a weird one.
I don't worry about it.
I think you could probably sell him in in fantasy and get good and get good return back.
You say you wanna build out your running backs or you wanna look to get dynamic at your tight end position because you're weak There, you could probably piece together a couple of guys coming to you sending off O B J.
So I probably look at it as if you're really deep it wide receiver.
You could go ahead and look to pitch him and get something back in return.
But if you're if you're running fairly thin, you're gonna have to live and die by him.
He's gonna be boomer bust some weeks and you just have to hope that week to is a sign of consistency for his game again had targets in Week one as well.
I think he's gonna drop less balls.
So on a week to week basis, you're still talking about getting five catches sixty seventy yards, and that's probably where you could live comfortably and then touchdown dependent in terms of having a real big week for you.
Would you say that since the Cleveland Browns have easily played the best team in their division and the worst team in their division, are you excited to see where they actually are If they play Pittsburgh? Yeah, that's that's really the barometer here for them.
You look at their schedule and you start to say, You know, the next week they're gonna play Washington now, incidentally, may look at the Washington football team and think, Listen, we know they're not that great, but they got a nice front seven.
They got a lot of guys that could get after the quarterback.
So there's a challenge there for the offensive line and maybe for that run game.
So I I think you start to check off those boxes.
Dallas is dealing with defensive injuries, you know, week.
That's talking about Week five against your Colts.
That may be a That's a really nice game toe look at because you're talking about a team that, theoretically, coming into the season, they feel pretty good about the defensive side of the ball.
You feel like a balanced team, right? You got good weapons in the wide receiver corps.
You had this rotational back system.
Looks like Taylor is gonna start to get some more reps here now.
So go play a balanced team.
And Pittsburgh is exactly that as well.
But I think there are high end defensive team.
Let's just talk about a team that's probably middle, upper level top fifteen in both sides of the ball.
You'd like to think and closer to ten and fifteen.
Show me how you play there.
Can you score consistently against a team like that? Can you slow them down on the defensive side of the ball? Maybe make some big plays? If you can do that against a team like the Colts, then I think you get a real gauge about where they are for this season.
Unfortunately, really bad teams and really good teams.
I think you're going to see this type of spectrum.
You're gonna get beat up pretty bad.
Maybe score more points than you did Week one and in Week two, Even though you're putting up the numbers, you're still going to give something.
So, you know, given up thirty to a rookie quarterback behind a week offensive line is not a great sign for this defense for Cleveland? No. No.
And and, um uh, the good thing defensively, they did get three sacks.
They got, like, five tackles for loss.
So their front seven seems to be doing well.
I'm gonna have to say that that ward, that cornerback there was a heck of a job.
No, that that that's a really and I know I knew it was good, but again, when you're watching your own team and you checking on other games, I don't watch Cleveland consistently.
I mean, you're talking about a lock down corner and and that's you need that type of quality play on the outside for you.
So again, and by the way, we mentioned couple injuries on the defensive front for Cleveland in this game.
So you know, you get healthy if the front can have a little bit more pressure.
That's the difference off.
Ah, couple more opportunities, maybe first of interceptions and turnovers on the defensive side of the ball.
But when you have a lock down corner on the outside like that, that helps you mitigate some of the other concerns you have defensively.
All right, so I think we're pretty well covered last night's game. Pretty good.
E wanna thank Ray because he's just been blowing up the chat over here.
Man, I have to make sure that have both things up so I could see it, you know? Yeah, yeah.
If you don't follow us, man, give me a follow.
Give Adam the follow over on his channel and make sure you get rare out of follow because he's just over here.
Just chat it up because that Ray dude is a, well four star genius.
Apparently, I'm not gonna say what those four star says, but that's what he that's what he says about himself.
Well, that's that's But listen scales air different, right? Four out of five.
Four out of ten.
You know there's room where there's room there, Ray. I don't know.
I want thank Ray.
I want to thank Sammy. Sam.
Thanks for the follow Sammy Sam.
Luke Backman to joke four eighty six.
Thanks for the follow Thanks for the follow Ray.
Finally, uh, that's why it's four out of ten.
That's why you know it's four out of ten.
Yeah, Paul's and Broncos nineteen.
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We'll take what you're saying will shoot you down.
Or maybe Well, maybe you could be supportive of me against Lawrence if we're having a debate over particular players.
So get yourself signed up, get logged in and get a part of the conversation that's a part of this is.
Well, when we live stream, we wanted to be interactive with the fans, so get involved.
Follow Lawrence, follow everybody and be a part of the SportsCastr family.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
So I want to thank everybody for watching.
It's been thirty minutes.
It's been very insightful.
Thank you, Adam, for joining Onda today.
Well, joining you're gonna be here everything every Friday morning anyhow, so thank you for joining the rest of the season on and for SportsCastr news.
I'm Lawrence on with Adam.
Perfect. Close enough.
I'll get it down one of these days, man.
Uh, have a good one. Everyone.