three in a podcast.
It's a nice chill day.
Hopefully, Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell are as well because, ah, because that story never stopped evolving, huh? All right, let's see if we got it.
Adam, what's the Lord? Hello. Hello.
It wouldn't hurt if by Ah, check my output of a volume here for a second to make sure that I hear when you're talking back to may get that would be good.
Now we're coming in Clear. Nice.
And there's a Christmas fee.
Mike, you got Can you hear me? All right, there we go. All right.
Came on May that we are on their in building.
It's all good, I Every time I come in, my cameras, like, often the ground somewhere.
So I'm like, that is probably not a great Yeah, probably not a great way to start anything.
So we're doing we're Do I feel like we've done a lot of Rudy go Bare and Donovan Mitchell? It's a story.
Maybe I haven't done it with you, but I've done a lot of chatter on them, Brett, that part of the story where they do the spin to be like, Oh, we're actually friends again.
Like were in that stage of the Rudy go bare of Donovan Mitchell story, whether it's true or not, no coincidence at all.
We have, ah, a tournament coming up where they're gonna have to be teammates.
So So that's where were are were at this journey.
If it doesn't do, I think like I'm gonna start up with this.
I do think that if they don't play well and they're out, well, I guess, um is one of no Bogan is not paying is not playing in the tournament.
So if they bow out a little early, I bet we here Ah, whole lot of noise about how they're unhappy again.
But I think you and I had talked about this because we I'm pretty sure we were talking about that idea of Well, is it Is this about, um, moving forward with, You know, Mitchell moving forward with Elber, Would you try to move one of these players where the case may be? And the funny thing is, without without Bogdanovich playing, that's that's one factor.
What I went over and looked at, like if you go over and look at the MBA standings and you say out in the West, they're rate.
We look at it as you go all you were the four seed.
So you're right there.
We're going into next year, you're gonna have the Lakers and Clippers in the same spot nuggets.
Or maybe they could fluctuate a little bit.
Ah, Thunder and Rockets.
Those are gonna be interesting team, certainly.
But the Mavericks were going to be on the rise.
The pelicans, they're going to be on the rise, and the Grizzlies are going to be on the rise.
And it kind of doesn't matter to me what? What these two guys were saying about one another because this is more about the Utah Jazz.
Is a franchise like there at the fork in the road here? Because when they go into next season, you're talking about since, like, the next layer beyond that, look at the roster and look at the contracts that they have their right now.
So Okay, you got two guys that are gonna be going into those contract years, obviously in gold Bert and Donovan Mitchell.
Then you have that big, weighty contract of Connolly.
That will be the final year next year.
Bogdanovich is there until 22 23.
But after that again, you've got Joe Ingles over 30.
Just, you know, I think he's gonna be a franchise guy, not in the way of being a superstar, but he's a guy that I think will always stay with the team.
Yeah, the question that Utah needs to start asking themselves is, Are we ever going to be better than middle? Yeah, yeah.
Are we ever going to be better than this? Because, if not, you have three.
You have three choices.
You can probably get high value for Rudy Gobert for a championship ready team that feels like his defensive presence over the next couple of years can lock up a championship for you.
And maybe you get high asset value in return.
You can trade Donovan Mitchell, but I don't know.
That's a very team specific opportunity about who's going to want him, right? I don't know if I hate that idea that my leg, let's take, I actually have. I have a team.
It's all right, well, so let's jump right there.
The team that I think should be in on an opportunity like that would be the Dallas Mavericks.
If you want to bring in something that Nick DeLuca, I feel like he's he's a little so my issue with them.
And, like I read this story and like the first off, it just seems like I'm gonna just look, I wasn't there for these quotes is like the worst thing Aiken Dio.
It really seems like, Oh, Bear is jealous of Donovan Mitchell on all the shining Donovan Mitchell's getting just If you read those little quotes, it's like all those They're like prickly little statements to be like, Hey, you should pass, even though I think it was Mitchell had a game when or something like that.
But, like a lot of late, it Wouldn't you be, if your goal Bayer right? Like you've been there, everyone's been talking about how great you are.
They bring it on a Mitchell good, and now the only reason they're good and other pivot is like Is there like is the NBA's still the kind of lead that Colbert can be successful in, like all of the sudden like that? Like maybe, was just go with the young guy who again, I don't even know, like so That's the other thing.
Trade. Gobert. You want to trade Michelle if you want to.
If you treat go barren, you just keep Mitchell.
Now the question mark becomes a guy like Bradley.
When you look at his sample size and you could go inside his small rafter rating and say he projects pretty well, right? Like that's I think that's a big question that Utah has to ask themselves is, Do we think that Bradley can at least be start to be more serviceable in a larger minute? Share their immediately.
If that's the case, then you get a little bit more bullish about trading Gold Bear.
Is he there one like young prospect of the then? Because this is like a weird builder team.
I feel like this is the perennial existence of the Jazz is they get a promising player and then they build right away.
They're just like, Oh, good, uh, like again, like, you know, I Donovan Mitchell is a really good player.
Rudy Gobert is really good play.
They've drafted really well, but they get these guys and then they build a winning team right away.
Because the smart organization problem is they hit this like, firm, ceiling like over and over and over and over again.
It's like Gordon Hayward all over again.
There like this, Cap out is a four seed, and now it's like, Oh, well, well and that we're not gonna go any ****her than 40.
Well, that's the province, Right said.
You look at the roster lot of age.
Not bad, Like a player we were familiar with.
Great, great complimentary component.
Tohave on a championship.
You know, aspiring roster.
You look at a guy like Moody a who I think is a zero sum, and he shouldn't be on the roster after this year on his contract runs out.
So, like you're talking about needing to replace a significant portion of this roster and again, like Donovan Mitchell as the face of the Utah Jazz without Rudy Gobert is not going to be A is not gonna be a four seat next year.
I'll put it on, put it that way.
The story without my okay, I would not nothing like he might do the work like I'm not again like it sounds like I'm sitting here hating on Donovan Mitchell, but the good part about him is like I don't know what it looks like.
Toe have Donovan Mitchell is your best player.
I like over on the Nets.
That's my latest, my new like I love him on the Nets.
Like you know what I've been talking about, Kate.
The five and go sort of thrown that out there.
I'm like that lineup is probably gonna happen in, like, one gate out of 100 like that.
It's gonna like, or maybe to like and I'm, like, kind of like go bear on the Nets And then I'm like, Well, you know, Donald Mitchell is a really nice player.
He really is a little one dimensional right now.
He doesn't defend as well as anybody thought he was going to, and I think it's because he's expending so much energy on offense and then he doesn't move it yet.
He just doesn't.
He's He was a very nice pick and roll player this year, still isn't moving.
It may be the way you want him to just yet.
I think he'll get there, But I don't Sorry to take your Yeah, I just ripped that right out.
But I have very passionate about this weird team that I think is gonna go kind of nowhere way.
But that's really but we've talked about this on different things.
About all kinds of topics were like being a quote.
Small market team is such a delicate balance.
Like you said, like Hey, being a team that kind of ends up being middle aged and and pretty good but never is really where you go, watch out for them in the Western Conference finals, that's arguably it's way.
Better be that than to be a team like a pelicans now who are like, Oh, my God, watch out! But like that's, you know, a lot of better luck.
They're having that all pan out for you to get to this point where you could do that.
Um, you know Mitchell to me, it's like, Ah Westbrook on the thunder after everybody else left where you go, boy, I love your stat lines.
It's fantastic, but also, this team is as zero value in the playoffs, like you're not going to go anywhere, and and I know we've had this conversation about like a point guard, But the guard position is a It's a very delicate man.
Unless you are an elite of an elite talent and that actually even includes Westbrook, where you go? Guess what rest, Brooke like, even as good as you are, you need to be on a team with somebody else that's going to be doing incredible things with you in order. Accomplished.
Recall of a substantial goals Donovan Mitchell is great as you can be.
You need a Rudy Gobert or a somebody to be there with you.
Otherwise, you're always going to be, Ah, great staff provider and you're just never gonna and not and not necessarily his fault, either, right? The thought.
There's very few players that you can say can just take their team.
You know, LeBron James them to the playoffs with Cleveland early days, and I can't Doesn't matter that this is a team of scrubs.
I'm going to do it anyway.
Those are very rare players that can accomplish that.
Yeah, I think the irony and all of this is like I'm sitting here playing a little bit of like a mental like exercise, getting to figure out who is the best counter or that guess counterpart for Donovan Mitchell and Mike Conley a year ago, is a really good one.
He defends hard.
You know, he moves the ball well.
He's a smart player.
Kind of would let him.
You would let Donovan Mitchell sort of take the reign of it.
I think they got the right guy.
They just got him a year late.
And you're seeing that sort of, you know, I guess I mean my calling.
I think we've seen that a little bit this year, like there's a certain aspect was going like that little floater flip shot.
I think you just got to take that shot all the time in Memphis and not having the volume that he's that he's had in previous years.
I think it's sort of hurting that shot.
It feels like a little bit of a rhythm shot, Um, as someone who is an extensive pickup basketball but loves to tell, Yeah, yeah, often of voters when there's actual basketball in New York and not just backboards anyway, So, yeah, I mean, I just like, I don't know, I feel like they had this team was right this year, and I can see I actually can see why I was kind of into them.
I don't think they were gonna make the Western Conference finals, but the idea was there.
It's just how you system for it all comes down to Mike Frickin Conley.
I think you could put this on anything.
Yeah, all this rift between Go Bare and Mitchell.
It's like it's probably because they're not playing that well because they had all these expectations because they brought in Mike Conley and he just hasn't produced.
I don't know that it's a pretty simple thing for me.
Yeah, and now and now when you look at the salary numbers on there like they could still, I don't know, maybe that individuals hold it all together and they're going to next season with Connolly and with gold bearing with Mitchell and you'll do, you'll you'll wait to see if they're having enough early success.
But to your point Lake, it's always about right.
Winning cures all ills, so they're not gonna have problems if they're winning, but they're not going to be winning the way that they want to next season as constituted.
And even though this is such a shame, because even though go bears the reason why they've been winning over the years.
He's also is lack of offensive.
Proud list is the thing that will stop them now from being able to do something like it's such an impressive calamity of like great qualities and just the wrong amount of deficiencies for all these players even thought of interesting, like not as intense on the defensive end as you might have hoped.
That kind of hurts you in a game to game basis.
The other thing is like you brought up the idea of Gold Bear to Brooklyn.
The reason why that's so enticing is because it improves the position of exact need, right defensive demeanor at the center position and the value that that would give Durant at the power forward now, because now all the sudden defensively you get better at the center position automatically, then you get better defensively the power forward position because you're not asking, you know, DeAndre Jordan or Jared Allen.
Hey, why don't you flex out to the article we've already established? That's not really their forte, and I don't know Allen's ever going to get there, so now you're improving the next position down on your roster.
on the defense event, so I don't I don't think that there's a guy out there for you so that they can.
There's no one to bring in.
Rightly, there's not a lot.
There's not a lot of names out there that you would say If you bring in this one player at this key position, it's gonna have a ripple effect.
The only thing I could look at, maybe I think again is and you know, how you gonna dump Connolly salary next year like you'd have to pivot off of Conley to somebody younger and stronger and more proficient on the defense of end.
That then takes that pressure off of Mitchell and allows him to solely focus on the offensive side of things.
And I don't know if that player exists right now, right? Coming up with the right player for Mitchell's so tough because God go bare, I think is like he's gonna be so he's he's a free agent, 2021.
I'm assuming someone pays him, which is that's complicated right now because we don't know a nobody has money at this year, so it's not a huge deal, but next year I don't know if that money is gonna dry up from no fans for two years, you'll worry about it a little bit.
There's a couple of guys I mean Kawai, Paul George.
But then after that, guys like, go bare.
I think Gordon Hayward is next year.
Yes, so you know he's in a tricky spot.
I'm ready for the point and go Bears career where he's like, you know, he's that, like, mid level player.
But he's a sick, middling level player toe have.
I don't think he's quite there yet, but he's gonna be a really incredible value of what you get return on this guy like he's not upper echelon, but it's definitely over exceeding.
Whatever contract he gets, he feels like a guy that, you know, teams were gonna be like, Oh, you know, at this point, why would you offer a center that much money? He's smart, He's just a smart defender, and I just don't like there's gonna be a sweet little second half for his career.
Maybe I'm totally wrong and he just becomes a stiff.
But he hasn't had injury concerns or anything being that tall, which I think is a good sign Mitchell's tricky man because, I don't know.
I just don't know what the right type of play like.
Is it a Ricky Rubio type? Does he fit Nick? So Lonzo ball is that Is that the best fit for him? Like somebody who's Paul and and guards well and gets him the ball? A very weird fit.
Well, what? So arguably I not not throwing this out there? This isn't This isn't what I'm.
What I'm about to say is not what I'm about to say, but like him next to a Kyrie, Irving would make a ton of sense right like that.
That makes a lot of sense, because Kyrie Irving has the ball handling skill has the ability to take over for I meant well.
But the defense again, this is all predicated.
If Mitchell wants to play defense right or you can play better, Defense said.
It makes sense like it makes a ton of sense.
But if you just got, it's like I'm not really into that, and we all know that Kyrie is not really into that.
Then you just have to guys at those positions.
But the idea that you could throw out the name of Kyrie Irving to pair next to him and and even have hesitation.
Feels like an indictment on Donovan Mitchell.
Right? Like if you if you can say a very quantified name in terms of knowing what they are and you go, maybe maybe not the, you know, like, what does that say about right now? I'm not.
He's a really good player.
I just have, like, a weird thing.
Like when a guy and I don't know, this is not like a 100% rule like you should never live by this.
But whenever a guy is like in a situation where right away, he's just like I mean, like it was.
It was Donovan Mitchell's rookie year, and they made the playoffs because they were just like, Hey, please drum the entire offense like, literally do everything on offense.
I always worry a little bit about that, like that's like your formative years as a basketball player, and you're kind of a lot of times like the way you play early on, I think shapes at least how you are in your prime at the very minimum could even shape your entire career.
And like after a while.
It's kind of hard to change, like you just sort of are who you are after a while.
So for him, I like him a lot.
I especially liked him as a defender.
Even that first year, he defended really well against the thunder.
I do worry, though.
Like is that just is he just gonna grow into this and this is what he is? Or is there? If he's playing next to somebody else, can he be like, OK, I'm actually gonna dial into the You know, it's been very fun, scoring 24 but now I'm gonna score 19 and do the really not so fun parts of basketball.
It's got you talked about that before about the perspective at a player developed early in his career.
Can take a lot of time to dismantle.
Even when you end up with someone who is as talented as you are offers, you agree, get great compliment, knowing that there are a great compliment and then, knowing what you need to focus on a little bit more to allow them to handle so not need. I don't need 24.
I can take 19 and the five points is not what moves the needle.
It's the couple of steals that I maybe grab along the way that are going to make the big difference for our team to win games in the playoffs as I ah just quickly do a quick adjustment here.
Mm, we loved quick adjustments.
That's just the old.
That's just the old Let's not lose power as I make incredible points.
Uh, so but you know, like and can you dismantle that? And when you're a midlevel franchise like Utah is, you get lost in that mentality of saying, You know what, just go ahead and do what you do on offense, and we'll worry about it later, because if we make the playoffs, then we get more revenue share because we sell more tickets.
And that's kind of the bottom line here a little bit too.
So you know, you you end up cutting, you know, kind of you know about your face or selling yourself short on the on the back end for the short term games early on.
The other thing, if you want to talk about Gobert and where he's trying to get to this is also I think whether the wrist started with Mitchell or started with Gobert which way that gets pushed? Colbert is probably of the mindset like if I don't push for the trade now, to your point, I may end up taking border line veterans minimum at some point to go to a championship team if that's what I want.
But if I don't make it happen this upcoming season and get somewhere else where I prove my value, I move a team from the 62 the whatever three seed or from the three seed to the Western Conference finals or making a championship appearance.
I may never get that next bigger deal for me.
And yet, if he's able to find their way out the other name, that s so people have been throwing out that can't sign with anybody right now and is coming off of just multiple injuries that I think might make sense.
If you're looking to bring in a value replacement would be boogie cousins.
You know, if you want to take a chance on somebody in Utah, why would you know? We've blew my mind known to do it like that, and that's an incredible value low, you know, buy low, sell high.
And even if he gets injured, you know, because you're only a year away from stripping the whole thing down, probably anyway.
And he would make a ton of sense because it's a low risk situation for you.
And maybe you get him on a two or three year deal relatively team friendly, and then you could.
Then you could make the case because we all know cousins 100% healthy is still ah, high level player in the league and that even with Connolly and Angles and some of the other complementary pieces might still be a needle mover.
If again, let's say Tony Bradley can continue to develop.
I worry with Cousins.
The one thing I'm like I have a little bit more pause than the average person is that he already wasn't like a good defender, even in his prime, like he was like, at best, you got him to like, serviceable, like the injuries aspect of it.
I just like, I don't know, I like I feel like if they so they wanted, like if you don't want to bring him in, you'd maybe even I mean It feels weird to do this to Boogie Cousins, but you'd split the minutes almost evenly between him and Tony Bradley, and you have him in almost like a Super Six Manas aboard.
You could have him start, but really play like six man minutes and pull him in the 1st 5 And you would have him play in these, like, you know, almost like just, ah, the Jamal Crawford of centers or somebody like that.
Like, I wonder with him it's funny because I think him and go bare Go Bears is still like he's still in his prime.
His number, the numbers he's putting up in guarding like isolations or crazy, like if you try to isolate on him it You think, Oh, this is like a big galoot guarding me.
I'm gonna go try to, like, shoot over him.
But no, he can guard smaller guys, taken guard just about anybody.
But I do think if everything goes right for both of these centers, they're gonna have very interesting late careers.
Go Bear is a little bit more of like this defensive specialist and, like bookie could be that weird like I don't know.
I don't know what team is right? And I do kind of like that.
Utah fit a little bit better than, like, say, throwing him on a contender because if it doesn't work out on a contender, he's done.
Well, by the by the way.
Like if it doesn't work out on a contender, depending on what team that is, it could be it didn't work out for that contending team as well, because you're saying OK, if healthy, your the last little piece, even if it is in the Super Six man kind of scenario of like, just give me these bursts where you're going many take over 1/4 for a few minutes and that's okay.
I mean, I just think because those rosters are gonna be a little bit deeper, you're gonna have, like, a little bit of a shorter leash if your if your boogie cousins.
So if you come out flat in the 1st 10 games like I worry, you just get cut.
If you're on the Clippers or you're on somebody like that, this is like if he goes to like a Utah, I just like those destinations a little bit better.
He could really play through it and get himself back, not even into shape, because it looks like he's in great shape right now in the best shape of his career.
Ah, but get himself into, like, playing shape in basketball shape.
Um, I kind of like that.
I actually, like that fit a lot.
I think that's the right destination for maybe a smaller market team and do a little bit of like what? Ah, joking Noah did in Memphis a year ago.
Try to do something like that.
Yeah, that'll be interesting to see.
Man, you said at the top, like what? What this team looks like in this restart.
And just even without Bogdan it like how these guys play together and just, you know, just visual the eye test of whether or not these guys really want to be around each other.
I feel like is going to dictate so much of this organization.
And unfortunately again, regardless of who you like better or whatever the case may be, I think regardless even kept both of them.
You're not winning as this team is constituted players.
And I think the bigger that the biggest mistake would be to May is going to be when they sign Mitchell to a Max Supermax deal.
Whatever that looks like, that's going to be to the long term detriment of the Utah Jazz.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't want I don't want to be so out on him yet.
I feel like I know I'm not out on it.
But again, it's the idea.
I would say the same thing about about that.
About what? Brooking? Yeah, exactly.
Just like there's certain players that I I like them.
They're not bad players were also not something as soon as you give him.
Like when Patrick Mahomes just signed that 10 year extension.
The NFL, that was like, Wow, Chiefs.
You are as smart as I thought you would be with this, right? Like there's no mystery there. Exactly.
A soon as you sign the contract for Donovan.
But with Donovan Mitchell and a lot of players around the league just go, all right, You know what, are you gonna find the veteran minimum to make up what you can't afford elsewhere based on that contract? Sure.
And like the achieving too much too fast thing, I think, is the other thing you have to worry about.
It's like, Oh, man, like we now have Donovan Mitchell.
He's there centrepiece like you're probably gonna tread water between seed 10 and seed.
Well, where? I guess where they are, where you are As long as he's there in his prime.
Like you could be good enough to do that.
Well, I will say I mentioned some of those young teams like next year, the pelicans and where the map, How the Mavs look going into next year because they're a little bit lower seed right now.
I mean, listen, even arguably, the Rockets are going to be very interesting this offseason, based on how they perform exactly this, that there should be nobody there.
That could be everybody there.
But early season Next year is going to be very interesting for this team, because if you're sitting there as a six seed or even like 67 seed anywhere in that range, then I think no matter if you have much legal Baylor, Big Gilbert or not, the organization has to take a step back.
Go OK, like we made like whatever window we thought we were looking at here, unless we're bringing somebody in tow.
Add to these two players.
We've missed it.
That window was open and closed.
We've already missed it.
And now we just think about how do we sustain ourselves Long term, all of you.
This, uh, the thing that started this rift, they are going to get hate near daily reminder of every single time they do a Kobe that.
But the every single time, you know, Donovan Mitchell has a swab going his nose.
He's just gonna look at Rudy, go bear with it Just really hateful.
I mean, I don't want, you know, but I want to make too much light of this.
But I really do think, like, as much as I want to play the like, I think they can figure it out.
It's like you're kind of going like, every single time you look out there and you see no fans or you see you know, whatever, uh, you have toe wear a mask the second you get off the court, it's just gonna run, remind out of in Mitchell a little bit of how we got there.
Obviously, this was probably gonna happen no matter what, but, um, but I do think it's another says to get over that.
I mean, what What is it like? Well, ruling uncomfortable rift Classic, Miss it.
Do you think will bear, like, say, no? They're getting tested, and it's all clean.
Everyone's private, test clean.
Everyone's good, but he does the classic.
Like, remember that time I touched everything? Mitchell? Yeah.
Yeah, we're good now, right? This is like, buddy. Come on.
Come on, you son of a Yeah, it's gonna be Oh, yeah, I want to be a fly on the wall.
Did I want to be there for everything that happened in the locker room to and from I just want to know, like, back of the bus, front of the bus where they sitting, Good Lord.
Yeah, like a betting man for for the Utah Jazz.
The last dance, the dance that never was.
Oh, yeah? Well, so thank you.
This is we got a do***entary coming soon.
Check in for that.
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