That will be all good in the hood.
Swim from a boy's Joe Nouveau and Lawrence O It.
And there's Lawrence just waiting for Joe that we can get this party started.
How you doing? Well, watching the storms roll by and Joe, how are you? Pretty good.
But how you guys doing? Thank you. All right.
So the Seattle Seahawks, um, point during the soft cities and they offered you babying clown a one year deal worth $15 million.
Obviously, for some reason, that wasn't enough for Mr Clowney.
And the rumors is he's looking for something in the ballpark of $20 million a year.
From what we have to understand, the Cleveland Browns offered him about 18 million.
We don't know what this time if it wasn't enough money or if maybe he just didn't want to be a Cleveland Brown, which could very well be a an example of it.
But obviously as a lot of people reporting, he has a magic number in his head, and he's willing to sit until he gets it.
But half 20 to wonder who will ever hit that number.
Lawrence, we usually start with you because you're always on first.
I'm gonna jump you tonight and start with Joe.
Will he ever get that magic 20 million? So as I understand it, Clowney wants.
Or at least he asked for 22 million, right? At least in the very start of the off season.
And Ah, actually, there was something about him wanting Aaron Donald money, and I just wanted to do a quick comparison.
Aaron Donald has not Mr Pro Bowl his entire career.
He's also been first team All Pro, pretty much every single year in his career acceptance rookie season.
Jadeveon Clowney has to three Pro Bowl selections, and that's it.
No first team, all pros.
I mean, I think you're a great player.
And listen, I love Clowney.
I wanted the Ravens to sign him.
He was my one of my dream free agent signings.
Obviously, we don't have the money, but you're not Aaron.
You are not to this at the same level of Aaron Donald and I understand it's different positions, but I'm talking about the value that these players bring to their team, and I don't believe the Davion Clowney has that same value.
So no, he should.
I mean, one year, 18 mil from the Browns, if that is what he got offered.
That's a great deal.
And I understand he feels like he's worth more, But no, he needs to just accept whatever he can get at this point and just just do approve a deal.
You know, maybe you can get a bigger contract after a one year prove it. Deal.
Well, I mean, wasn't last year's one year deal with Seattle supposed to be a proven deal? Yeah, and in the same situation, injury problems The whole season had issues with jump in the snap, count on getting all sides and and it sat.
Numbers weren't up, and it was his proven deal, and he didn't prove it.
So what are you expecting today? Me and you? Are you imagining numbers and tape that's not there? That's that's my question.
I mean, he obviously, he's got talent.
The kid has talent.
There's no denying that, and he's good at what he does.
But he has problems staying on the field.
Yes, problems staying on his side of the line of scrimmage before the balls, height uh, just come on, man.
You gotta show the entire NFL what you're worth.
Not just what You believe your work.
Just because you know that one year prove it deal didn't come through the way you thought it did.
I don't see how in your head that you think that it showed on tape or even in the numbers, for that matter, that it was worth it.
So I mean, no, no, I get I think 15 is great for a one year 15.
That's after chunk of change.
Why wouldn't you take something like that? I don't understand His train of thought here.
Well, but I think the thing is, other pass rushers air over there getting, like, 17 right? Like a za Darius Smith and ah, even Jude on Got 16.
3, I think, Or something like that.
16.8 around there.
So 15 million is kind of on the cheaper side, so I could definitely see why he didn't want except the Seahawks offer What? What? Dude on getting sacks.
Last year he had I think, 9.
5 and Clowney had three.
Yeah, but I mean, that's the crowning.
Clowney was rated 78th and Sacks.
He was ranked 64th and solo tackles.
Now he did force four fumbles last year, which was big, but I'm here on sport track right now, looking at his market value and their marketing him right around that $17 million range.
Five years, 85 million.
The guys that they haven't compared to you, I think, is the proper comparison, because I don't think that Aaron Donald is the proper comparison. Number one.
It's a different position.
It's Aaron Donald, but they haven't compared to Trey Found Flowers, Cameron Jordan, Eric Armstead and Dante Fowler, which I believe it is.
The high side is 18 million year, which is trade flowers.
Dante Fowler Jr is making about 15 year, and then they have their their stats.
And this was the deals that the guy signed before their contract or the stats they had before they sign their contract.
And Davin Well, when you're looking at the rating, the only one that he l performed was Cameron Jordan.
In sacks per game.
The he out performed Fowler and Armstead in tackles per game, but he did come in second in that group.
When you look at the comparisons in hurries, which obviously is a stat that doesn't really get put on the stat sheet, which if obviously affects the quarterback.
He also came third in stops, and when you give him an overall rating, they haven't rated as the highest out of all those guys who are all making anywhere between 18 million and 15 season and their performances before signing their contracts.
So I think that that $18 million deal that the Brown sad was an overpayment and he should have got it because I don't see him in the Chandler Jones territory.
Do you guys, Maybe I'm wrong on his skill set, but I don't.
And I think 17 million is probably that number that I that I would pay if I was going to sign your day being Clowney e.
I also want to see and stay healthy.
I want to see him learned from this mistakes.
You know, I want to see him be able to take on a double team.
I mean, that's something else that he's had issues with the double teams in his career.
You double team him, he's out of the game.
You know those upper echelon guys that he wants to get paid like, can take a double team and still affect the game somehow.
Which is why I was a little surprised that he opted not to go to Cleveland.
I mean, I understand it's Cleveland and it's the Browns and nobody wants to play there.
I get it, and it's horrible organization.
But I mean, Myles Garrett on the other side that will free you up, right? So I I mean, I've been saying that I would be terrified if that was a pairing, but I mean, hey, I'm not mad at Clowney.
If he if you didn't want that to happen, that's fine.
I mean, I look at it right now.
Chandler Jones signed a five year, 82 million $82.
5 million deal, and I think that he's probably the top of that sort of group there, him, JJ, you what? I mean, sort of those those outside guys that can edge guys, linebackers.
I know, I think.
Technically, Chandler Jones is listed as a linebacker, but he's more of an address Scher than anything else.
I mean, if if Davian is sitting there, saying 85 year or 85/5 isn't enough, which is about 17 million.
I mean, Chandler Jones is a steal at five years, 82 million is do not like for what he can produce on an everyday basis.
And that's the thing.
I just think with Clowney.
Is he just over values what he's actually worth? Yeah, he's the deck Prescott of, ah, defence of free agents, right? Dalvin Cook.
I think he's worth the money, but he can't stay healthy long enough.
You mean he gets her all the time? If his long, lanky body, you know, being stuck down there on the edge, I don't get me wrong.
Learned a lot of long, lanky guys.
I look at the fourth Buckner.
He's like 68 only £300.
That's that's lanky, you know, Big God, still very tall, very lanky.
But butler don't get hurt like he does granted different, different position.
He's even on the inside, which means he's got more bodies on him, you know, on a play by play basis.
So I I don't he's got a show he could stay healthy for me.
That's just that's it.
You're gonna pay someone that kind of money.
You want to make sure that there on the field, all the fun, well, it's not that he's missing games that much.
He is, you know, shaking up quite a bit of games.
But he I mean, we played with injury 13 games this past season 15 this season before full 16 14 and 13.
So I mean, he's not missing that many games technically, but he definitely is playing through injury, and that can obviously slow any player down.
I'm looking at his medical report here, though, and I'm trying to figure out why he missed games in the season pass because, according to injury reports, he's only missed three games because of injury.
Yeah, let this past season or July this season a season, and then he was on the injury report in 2018 with a groin strain.
But he didn't miss any games.
Well, he played 15.
At least that's what these numbers say.
I'm just wondering if those 15 if that we if that's a Week 16 that the Texans already have it wrapped up.
But that's a week 17 game.
He's not playing right.
That's what I'm trying to figure out right now.
Could be because, according to this, he's only missed three games because of injury Him.
Yeah, but he is.
There are times he's banged up, you know, which is pretty much all the time.
But to be fair, pretty much every football players picked up at some point, you know.
I think clown, he's a great player.
I think he would help any team right now.
He could step on any team and he would help them out.
But he needs to know that he's not work and again, it just goes back to that.
It's the market, it's what you know.
His position is getting paid right now and he wants to set the market again.
I'm just not comfortable paying him that much.
If that was me, no and I agree and it's I think he was crazy.
I if I was dating Clowney, I'd be heading back to the Browns right now in saying that that 18 still on the table because would you guys except the Seahawks offered of 15 if I was saving Clowney I would, because I think he fits in that system on that team.
Let's also not like, pretend like you're getting like an easy player, which Davian Clowney like.
He's some locker room guy that everybody's gonna fall in love with, right? Ah, but he seemed to fit in Seattle, and Pete Carroll seemed to like him, and the team seemed to like him, and he seemed to take, you know, a leadership role on the team.
So for me, it's like That's what that was what I That's what I would take Seattle.
I would take the 15 million just because that's probably where I have the best year success because now, in fairness to his, you know, numbers last year that we're comparing three tackles or three sacks and you know, last in solo tackles and that kind of thing.
I mean, 2018 was a completely different year, where he was 12th in solo tackles.
He was 19th and sacks with nine, but he only forced one fumble, but he recovered three.
He batted one passed away at eight tackles for loss, which put him sixth in the league.
So it's not like he hasn't shown an ability to play.
I just think that you're in a situation where do no one's gonna pay you $20 million? They would have done it already.
You like that? My whole thing.
That would have happened already.
No one's desperate enough to say, Let's give you Davey and cloudy $20 million a year And it's not like you're holding out on your team.
This isn't a Dalvin cook situation.
What are you going to do? You're going to join a team midyear and think they're going to give you $20 million pro rated, and you're gonna push him over the edge.
I was surprised, men, I thought, you know, maybe after the draft, when there was teams that didn't get to draft an edge rusher, maybe they would end up signing cloudy, but yeah, I'm kind of surprised, but at the same time, if clowning himself is still, but yeah, I thought at least somebody would over pay for him, like somebody would pay him 20 milk, but is the thing I don't think anybody wants to pay him long term right now.
I think he might be looking for that, You know, he might be looking for a long term contract, a 45 year deal, you know, And that's obviously, um, with the way the market they're expecting.
The market is why everybody's getting paid so much more money now because you know, they're slapping on some money, long term on the back ends of contracts.
You thinking that the cat will be a lot that much more higher in, like 2022 2023.
And he's probably expecting that to and these short term one year deals, Um, that handcuffs teams as well, you know, because that means Onley teams that have that kind of money this year left on their cap.
You know I have.
You got two or three year deal at minimum.
At least then you can kind of dip into your cat cat space in the coming years.
But, yeah, I don't I don't understand.
You would think that. Jude. Aidan.
I'm sure he's got suitors.
I'm sure there's lots of things out there that like to have him on their team.
I just don't think that they're able to come to terms with Hiss with his, um, and how many years he wants on a contract with the money.
I think that no, go ahead.
Well, I'm just looking at it, thinking like this.
Like I'm sure there's people who want him on the team.
I don't doubt that for a millisecond.
I 100% agree with you.
I just don't think they want him on the team for the type of money that he's asking for, because I will look at a team like your team, the Indianapolis Colts, right? You could have paid you Davian. Cloudy.
$20 million a year saved yourself a first round draft pick not given, you know, DeForest Buckner.
A deal worth 21 million.
But the Indianapolis Colts looked at available players on the market and said, We would rather give up a first round draft pick and pay an enormous salary for DeForest Buckner rather than bring in today being cloudy to have help our pass rush.
That's the way I look at things right.
And when you look at that kind of compare Harrison, it's like Dude like teams would rather do that than pay you $20 million a season.
So at some point you need to realize Hey, I need to go somewhere where I fit.
And again, I'm getting back to this point and I know I sound like a broken record.
But what is the difference? Between 15 million and 17 million.
What's the difference when 17 and 20.
This whole Sabbatini it is.
But this status thing is ridiculous.
In the NFL, it's everybody wanted to break records and set the market and say, Hey, this is who I am.
I'm sorry, buddy.
You're comparable to Chandler Jones.
JJ, what? When it comes to positions and they don't even have you in the comparable list are comparing you to the next year.
So you need to relax and realize you're not that guy.
I get people who want to strive to be that guy.
But you're not that guy.
You're not a bad player, but you're not that guy.
All right, so I have a list here of the NFL's highest paid edge Rushers weaken.
Kind of make this a little bit of a game.
You guys, do you want to start at the bottom er from the top? What do you guys think you mean, like when you say bottom like number 10 late props, stop with the hot start with the highest salary will make our way down.
Okay, So the highest paid edge rusher is Khalil Mack making 23 a half 1,000,000 Clowney.
I mean, Khalil Mack had a little bit of a down year last year, but he's still, in my opinion, top level elite talent.
Clowney is not at his level.
Um, then we have DeMarcus Lawrence on the Cowboys making 21 million.
That's an over pay.
It is an overpaid do you guys, Would you guys rather have Lawrence or Clowney for that money? Neither.
Okay, but that's not an option.
All right, well, I would rather pay Laurence, though, because I think Lawrence is more of a locker room guy to go along with, Say, I'd say from that's that if I have to pay one of them, I'd rather pay Laurence because I know he's not getting so up the locker room.
He seems like he sit fit pretty solid in Dallas.
Okay, then we have Frank Clark, former Seahawk current chief, 20.
That's another over pay.
But data, I I don't know.
I think I would rather have Clowney in that situation.
I think so, too, but yeah.
You know, I wouldn't, Because if you look at one of the catalysts that turned that defense around when they want a Super Bowl, it was Frank Clark you got.
I mean, he talked a lot, but they backed it up.
You know? He backed out, man, and he screamed at the Chiefs players.
When when the defense wasn't doing well, he put accountability on a lot of people in Frank Clark was one of those ones to step it up.
So to me, you know what I've always said If you bring in a Lombardi, you're worth every penny that the franchise spends on you, so I can't call that an overpaid because they walked away a Super Bowl champions.
All right, I'll give you that.
I think Clowney has more talent than Clark, but I think you're right.
Clark Clark probably has that ability toe to break the door of the players.
Yeah, around him.
Okay, fair enough.
Then we got von Miller, 19.1.
I would give von Miller, and I'm sure that that deal is extending from his prior from his.
You know, his great days.
I would have given von Miller whatever he wanted to be on my team.
All right, Trey Flowers raise boy making 18.
I've always thought that trade was a little overrated.
Um, that's the reason about check what? Him go.
I said it when he was in New England.
I thought he was a good player.
I didn't think he was a make or break address.
So, to me, he's a $15 million guy that played on a Bill Belichick defense.
Yeah, I'd rather have clowning at that solid he is.
But he was the best edge rusher on a bad pass rush, so it made him look spectacular because nobody else could get to the quarterback. Right.
It was a year after the Super Bowl, and he went to a map.
So it's the overpaid for those type of players, right? Yeah.
So would you guys take cloudy at 18 over trade flowers? I would, at 18.
I would take trade traces.
Solid guy, though.
You mean everybody in the locker room loved him? The New England side probably take Trey again.
I think a lot about disruption of locker room serious.
Especially when I'm 50 50 or even 60 40 on a guy from a talent standpoint, I take for dating cloudy.
But his reputation, you know, supersedes himself.
Sometimes I would rather trade who I know is gonna come in and not not make the waves that we sometimes like a Frank Clark made waves in Kansas City that needed to be made.
And then there's guys who make waves that don't need to be made.
I'll give you that, Lawrence.
What do you think? Um, yeah, I think I think that trade flowers from Frank Clark are kind of on the same level.
In my opinion, um, I think to Davian on both ends, uh, beat them in in talent on the field.
But as, uh, Mr Out here said, You know, locker room is a deal, man, that's a deal breaker.
All right, agree to disagree.
And those Super Bowl champions, there's a thing about signing a Super Bowl champion that had something to do with the Super Bowl, right? Let's not forget that it was trade Flowers who sacked Matt Ryan and knocked him out of field goal range.
Right? Big play big time.
So I also have a big thing when guys make big plays in big moments.
That's experience you can't buy, you know? I mean, like, that's experience that they bring with, um And I mean, the Patriots had so many chances to really show out because they went to the Super Bowl every **** year.
So anybody would get paid right anyway, the number six Yannick and GAC way.
But I don't think he signed the tags, so I don't know how this works.
But it says he's making 17.
8 because that's a tag, right? I think so.
Now I'll take Lonnie Organic.
Every, uh, I would take.
I would take cloudy for 17.
Fair camera. Jordan.
That's an interesting 1 17.
5 I actually would take camera. Jordan.
I like Cameron Jordan again.
I think it's a bit of an over pay, but I also think seventeens and over pay on Clowney, even though that's his market.
So I probably take Jordan as well.
I think that's a wash.
Okay, fair enough.
Then we got Dee Ford.
Well, this is a I guess defensive lineman, for some reason, are on here.
Whatever you please edge.
D Ford, 17 mil flat.
I like the Ford.
He just seems to disappear.
Sometimes more than Clowney would.
Um I mean, I love the forks.
He lined up offside in the championship game, right? So I mean, it's been a, uh I'd probably goals here.
On the interception. Right.
The lose the in the game.
I would go, uh, probably clowning over D Ford.
I think Clowney and Ford are very similar on pass rush ability, but I think Clowney's just slightly better when it comes to stop in the run.
Yeah, so yeah, I'll go Clowney saying, Uh, then we got Olivier Vernon.
17 million Brown's.
What are you doing? I I am not a Vernon guy.
I don't think he's good.
I think he's overrated.
Overpaid for sure.
This is why the Browns always find themselves in a position. Yes.
Yeah, I wouldn't.
He's a $10 million edge rusher.
Unity is the Kirk cousins of edge rushers.
It is a $10 million address.
I think I pay cloudy.
I pick Clowney 20 before he paid himself on.
And then finally we got Eric. Are Armstead.
He's more of that hybrid interior edge guy.
He's not even an edge.
He's another defensive tackle.
He he lined up nose tackle most of the time.
Last see, So I don't know why they have him on this little Armstead, please.
Edge, though he plays a lot of that.
You know Buttner does, too, but he's our Armstead is Mawr of, ah, like a block.
There is more of a hybrid, that kind of line up everywhere, don't they? Do they have them listed? A defensive lineman.
I know for a while that Adam listed as an outside linebacker because he could line up everywhere.
Yeah, they have a defensive lineman.
So what do they want? The pain.
I'd give arms at 17 over, over Clowney.
I like Armstead.
I love the hybrid. Just like I love Bachmann for the hybrid.
I love guys who can do Mauritz.
Why I'm in love with Chase Winter, which in New England as an edge rusher and he can step back, is an outside linebacker going coverage like I just love guys like that.
It's because you can don't forget to come from the cost of Bill Ballot Shack, where it's like you have to do more than one thing to fit on a defense.
I can Yeah, I just find I find that interesting.
They would choose to pay Armstead over Buckner.
I always thought Buckner is a better player.
Oh, it was never do***ented.
Knowing the Armstead admits it, you know what the thing was? It was paying Armstead for 17 million and saving that other four million is going to sign somebody else.
I watched the whole breakdown.
If they would have kept block near, they would have had to have lost Armstead in another player by keeping him for the 17.
They were able Teoh sign two guys back.
I read the whole thing about it, and and Armstead was surprised they paid him to until they re signed somebody else's like.
Then I got it, you know? I mean, it was just a tough decision, and they realized losing to tow one wasn't worth the wasn't worth the move at that time.
Well, that that you also got to remember.
They also grabbed the first round pick out of that.
So yeah, I mean, they? They kind of came out well.
I mean, the Niners came out well, the Colts came out with.
I look excellent trade on both ends.
It's a win win on both sides.
That's the way I saw it.
So, yes, I like Armstead.
So I mean, look, we just went through that whole list and there was, like, two guys that we put Jadeveon Clowney in front of, and a lot of them were making that $17 million mark.
So, like again, he's how? How does? I don't know where he comes up with this $20 million where you think you know thinking is worth it, because And look, we're missing guys, too, because again, because they were just doing ad rushers.
A guy like Chandler Jones, who's more of an ad rusher than anything, is outside linebacker.
I would say JJ Watt is more of an edge near the linebacker, but they're off those lists.
You know me when we start going toe so we could go through a whole another list of just ol bees who are known for their pass rush ability, and we probably take most of them over to saving Clowney as well.
Just if we just based on this half right, see holding you want put on Miller's an outside linebacker writing years.
That's why I The list is weird, right? It that list was Let me see if this is it, but, uh okay, this one's Yeah, Well, no.
This is including middle line backs, too.
Well, we could do this one if you want.
Just just do it.
If a guy's irrelevant will just pass on.
So again, Khalil Mack is number 1 20 3.5.
Then von Miller, number two.
We already said, um, Bobby Wagner and number three, middle linebacker.
I pay Wagner over Cloney course.
I think every points with Sunday voiceover I'd pay him, I pay him.
Or if he was like, if cloudy was like, give me 17.
I do like All right, Bob, I'll give you 20 just No.
He asked for Just concede acts for money.
I'm gonna give him or Oh, man, we got the money.
So then you have C.
Mosley, former Ravens and current Jets linebacker at 17 milk.
I like mostly e think it's worth 17 mil.
Seventeen's a lot.
I'd rather give you Davey and 17 over, mostly if I had to make that I like mostly.
But again, that's like he's like a 14 fixin guy to me, not a 17.
Which is why he didn't stay with the Ravens.
Mostly, mostly more of a tackle.
Guy in the Is it good? He's a good run stopper.
I like most like various.
Yeah, I like mostly, but it was kind of his mobility is not great, right? That's why they keep him in the inside a lot.
Is his linebacker.
Yeah, he's a middle linebacker is the most man coverage was that was his biggest knock is that he was not good, especially on tight ends.
He could not cover tied in to save his life, but pretty good in zone and pretty good because he was drafted as an outside right.
And then the Ravens moved them inside of my correct.
I think so, Yes.
I was thinking it was outside.
Well, yeah, I think he was dragged his and call it to dry.
He d covered tight ends, right? So they brought him in as an outside, but they quickly moved them inside because his mobility is awful and it's been awful in New York as well.
But, I mean, everything's awful in New York, so you can't really Well, I mean, he, like, played like four downs and got hurt, so I don't know.
So then another former Ravens za Darius Smith, he's he's more of an outside linebacker edge rusher.
Is it fair to say I don't know enough about him to really making this just fine? Just let me just I think he had, like, 13 *** last year.
But let me check if you had 13 sacks and taking him Richard Avian clowning.
Well, I mean, you don't know how well you mean if you don't know him that well, then you can't say that 13 sacks is nice, But what if he allows guys to run right past him every time on the run game? You know, all I know is that Hiss sacks, Eclipse, Jadeveon, Clowney sacks and hurries last year.
So? So its production on that stamp for the production.
Okay, fair enough.
Uh, yeah, that one's a little, but again, it's a wash.
Means I'm not really that for me.
I should know a guy who got 13 sacks, but I'm not overly familiar.
I'd probably go Clowney there.
But I think Clowney's a little bit of a better player.
Just a little bit.
Um, and then Chandler Jones was.
I would give Chandler joke my firstborn, and that's what he wanted.
Like, yeah, yeah, he's a steel that that number is a steel Because when he's got two more years left on his deal, if he's still playing at these level in two years like he's talking like he's second record breaking.
When when he got when he's a free agent, he must be looking at it now going.
I can't believe I signed a six year deal.
You know what I have eaten at this? Because he would have been a $2122 million guy. Easy.
Yeah, well, I mean, what? How old does he know? Not old.
He's got another contract left.
It is closer to 38.
I don't know if you're rather funny.
Patriots drafted him.
I want to see in 24 30 30 30.
He'll be 32 on his contract's up.
He's got another contract left in him.
Yeah, it might not be the 18 million at 32 but you know what? If you still playing at these kind of levels that could very well see like a two year a two year 35 40 mil at 29 I mean 25 20 million with an option on the second year.
Oh, no wonder, cause this articles from last year Oh, well, it's pretty much the same thing because they have Jadeveon Clowney at seven there with 15.97.
But I mean Clowney e I take last year's Clowney over this year's Here you go.
Uh, so then they have Deon Jones at 14.2.
That's a great deal.
That's another steal again.
The guys that signed the contracts before the market blew up stated right? I mean, you have It's easy, Anthony Bharat.
I'd pay clinic 15.
No, I pay Clowney 17 overboard.
You have ah Kwon Alexander again.
So we've kind of foundry is he's a mid range guy.
He's not that top shelf.
He's the second tier.
He's not a low guy, he's a middle guy, and I think anywhere, and I think we know.
We've said 17 for over some players and 15 over others.
And you know what? I'm not giving up my firstborn to him like I am Teoh von Miller or Ah Chandler Jones, you know.
So it's Ah, well, here's a question.
What about Justin Houston? He's getting 11 year.
Justin, He's underpaid.
Justin Houston. It's so disgustingly underpaid.
Justin Houston's another $17 million guy.
I remember I really wanted the Ravens to sign him when he was a free agent.
Everybody wanted just you can nd just because everybody wanted Justin Houston, we all.
I remember doing videos about Justin Houston unit.
The end is stolen.
So let me let me throw this at you guys and away from players.
Are we seen a reluctance to say, because the guys that we paid are all sort of hybrids, and I don't really consider dating Clowney a hybrid.
I consider him a traditional line guy, whether it's an edge or playing side a little bit, but I don't consider him a hybrid like I consider a Chandler Jones or ah, JJ Water.
Something like that.
Our teams were reluctant to pay it because we're seeing so much money going into interior guys who can either play interior or play both in a hybrid and play both effectively.
That a guy like is is the outside edge primary outside edge becoming the safety of the NFL? Because we went through that little stretch where a safety couldn't get a contract, you know, because nobody wanted to pay safety.
They became the the Diamond Dozen is that may be why Clowney is struggling to get this kind of money possible.
Because, you know, I just got done talking on a stream not too long ago, saying that you know that the interior of a defense of line is the new edge.
You know, teams want those guys to get pressure up the middle and course those those the quarterbacks, those scrambling quarterbacks toe have t move outside rather than step up and through the line.
You know, absolutely.
It's quite possible because I'm looking at these salaries here.
Obviously, Aaron Donald's 22.
5 right, Buckner's 21 and then there's kind of a drop.
Like Fletcher, Cox is 17.1.
GERD Grady Jared is 17.
I don't know. They look familiar.
They look, they look sort.
Ah, but I think when we start getting, like, how many years is Brandon Williams have left on his contract? Uh, like maybe one or two I would imagine.
And then I assume he's like he's only making, what, 10 million that are 11 million.
He's making 10.5.
You got to expect he's going to get a boost, right? Um, because, yeah, he signed a five year, 52 million.
So what I think we're going to start seeing is that some of these interior guys or those hybrid guys like Coolio, Mack, who can play the edge and move and play inside are like he can line up, is a nose tackle if he needs to.
And with a lot of teams now playing a steady for three, you mean where you can move the guys around? Um, I think that just your traditional edge rusher who can't play the inside or drop back and play linebacker like a J J or ah, Chase win a ***** type of player, Their services, maybe, you know, Hey, if we can get him out.
A good deal will take him on.
But I'm not investing big money into somebody like that.
Well, but cloudy can do those things right, And he's also very good at setting the edge.
And so he gives you like that.
He what? He's obviously amazing in the run game, right? Stopping the red.
That's probably what you lay your hat on with Clowney because obviously the production isn't there.
But he's all right outside of outside of five teams who runs the football anymore.
Well, I mean, and I I count your running.
I go. I mean, I count your quarterback.
You know what I mean? Like, it's out of out of the five out of Dallas Baltimore a little bit.
The Patriots, the Giants, Niners and it works for him when he was.
You know this designers what? I mean, like, where who runs the ball right? I get that.
You want to stop the run, Stop rough, start again if you have.
And if you have a team that can run, you think and he's going to run the ball this as much this year with Philip Rivers? Yes, I don't think so.
they'll go to a much more balanced offense.
You guys ran a lot last year.
Philip Rivers didn't sign to hand the ball off more than 50% with time.
You don't want to just give Philip Rivers those they're part of.
Those were part of the conversations, all right.
I know that was a big problem that him and I want to keep saying, Ingram.
It's not Ingram, though.
Um, Gordon, that was the story.
I was really That was the big issue between him and Gordon.
Gordon wanted more snaps, and Philip Rivers is kept saying, like was arguably, didn't want to hand the ball off.
Right? So that was the kind of discussions are gonna be had of what you're going to do with the football.
And look, I'm coming from a team now That's probably going to run the ball primarily this season to try to protect their young quarterback and let him manage a little bit until he could get in.
But yeah, setting matches and poor.
But I think those interior guys are more important with run than especially with this new with this new quarterback hybrid that's coming into the NFL.
You what I mean, with these guys who can do both run and throw the ball.
That interior becomes so much more important in the run game.
And, I mean, if you're getting bullied in the power run, Nick Jobs not bounce into the outside on the edge.
Nick, Nick Chubb is running up your running up the middle and running it down your throat.
If you can stop him, you actually take away a lot of Cleveland set up on their offense, especially when you get into play action and that kind of stuff a lot.
Also, something that ah, you have tow taking consideration your defensive ends and your outside linebackers.
If you're in a you know, 34 there, they're responsible for your screenplays.
You know, your tight end strange, your running back screen stuff like they there there, they have to be there.
Toe. Watch out for that.
And that's the kind of thing that Clowney is also good at is he's able to recognize the screen, getting ready to set up in and and go after the running back.
Instead, you know, to cover him so that that is a bit of a plus in his favor.
cause I've seen him be able to pull that off pretty pretty well.
He's got really good lateral quickness when it comes to that.
I? I just have a problem saying that This guy, you know, and we've all done it today that he's got this. He's good.
He's got this has got this.
One team has come close to paint the offering money that he wants.
One team has offered him 15.
What's the rest of the mark? We're assuming that he's got suitors around the rest of the market.
You what? I mean, but it's it's amount appointed if he is that good or again, Has NFL offenses changed where he was good three years ago? And we love that lateral movement in this in that has the league past? Um, I don't know what I mean, But are they looking at? Is Pete Carroll sitting there now? Looking at what they did in Baltimore, thinking, Hey, I could do this with Russell.
He's got the wheels in the legs, some sort of hybrid version of it.
You what? I mean, it's are people that's looking a clown to go on your position isn't as important as it used to be.
And if you look at a team like the Patriot to play the 34 we had one traditional edge guy in two defensive lineman.
We've defensive lineman Plane edge.
Yeah, you really mean So it's It's the traditional three fours aren't even looking the same anymore.
Yeah, but, I mean, I don't know how to network when you had to face up against Lamar Jackson, who ran to the outside, you know, on those read option plays with the defensive ends on the end that how did that work for everybody, though? Put additional edge rusher.
And so that's a That's a **** argument, right? You know, But you can sit there and say That doesn't work.
When he did it to everybody who runs the same defense and athletic, I like Davion Clowney to set the edge when Lamar Jackson tries to, you know, go outside the tax, which he does, and until he gets bullied by a tight end.
I'm surprised people don't play a more of a 52 against the Ravens.
Maybe we'll see that.
Maybe they'll try that all I know about your Davian cloudy.
And this is why I'm not as high under David is. You guys are.
I used to love when the Patriots would play Houston because I used to get to watch a heavyweight bout between Gronkowski and um J. J.
You mean? And it would be a heavyweight bout and I'm not.
You know what, Gronk 1 95% of those battles you mean? But it was a hard fought battle.
You would have seen this in Indy.
Dwayne Allen owned owned owned Jadeveon Clowney.
We played him twice with Houston, and I think, in total he had to hurry ups on Brady and one quarterback hit.
Dwayne Allen just annihilated him.
But you could see no between Allen's a good blocking tight end Martellus Bennett owned Jadeveon Clowney.
If you have an okay, tight end who can put a big body and push people around and I'm looking at a division I think George Kittel can own Davian Clowney You what? I mean, um and it's so that's what I see.
Like you're playing the Patriots second tight end because JJ was on the top one and you couldn't take apart the second tight end, and Dwayne Allen is not, you know, learned you dealt with him.
You know what I mean? Dwayne Allen is not going to go down in my history of all time Patriots, but he owns a dating Clowney.
Okay? I mean, the way now is worth having on a team.
You don't want to pay him a bunch of money.
You know, that's that's the thing about doing so. He's good.
Like he said, he's a good run blocking tight in.
Ah, not the best out, you know, running around.
So So he's not the best to your drop the line of scrimmage.
Yeah, well, I mean, you say that George Kittel can absolutely own him.
And then cloudy against the 40 Niners was Jimmy G's nightmare in that in that game that went into overtime in San Friend and I think he believed I believe he forced two fumbles on Jimmy G.
Let's not pretend like that game wasn't on Jimmy G.
I mean, you made an entire argument about that game and how that you just argued, Have it wasn't on? No, I said that you can't look at three games and say that was this whole season.
I never argued that game at all. I thought that's the game.
I called him jittery.
G Now is the game.
I doesn't jittery G.
So I mean, yeah.
I mean, it's so easy to pick that apart, but, I mean, we've already made that argument.
I just I don't know.
I look at his stats and their average.
To me, 2017 was his non average year.
You mean like, 2017? Was this non average year and and in respect, I mean, he has been great sense.
He's also only be only 27.
I nobody said you.
He's had two good years the last two years.
He's had two good years that we, respectively, would say, Hey, pay anywhere to 13 to $15 million this guy is now asking for 20.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't I don't see it.
I all do agree that we wouldn't pay Clowney 20 mil, right? That's what we all agree on.
Okay, fair enough.
What year did JJ missed the whole year? Was that 2018 No trace limits the entire season, because would that be a coincidence that was Clowney's worst year.
My being well, I know.
I mean, JC, What's been missing for quite a while? Well, I mean, he had a pretty good season.
So 2017 in 2016 where his where? His two seasons.
That didn't play full seasons.
So let's see how clammy looked United's wound.
These 2017 was his best year.
He had he had, ah, with the merciless on the opposite end of in the most right kind of took that J. J. Watt.
So here's the way I look at things.
Is Mohammed Sunu a great receiver? Because he looked really good in Atlanta When Julia, when Julio Jones took a lot of attention, look great in Cincinnati when a.
Green took a lot of attention, looked like hell in New England when suddenly he was the guy.
You know what I mean? And there's people who were the guy and there are people who are guys.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
You need guys, they're not made hands. Roberts.
Huh? You're not that men there, Robin.
There, Robin and very important players.
Dating. Clowney is a Robin.
He's not a Batman.
That's a perfect ****ogy.
Just like Mohammed Sunu, when he came to New England, proved he was a Robin, not Batman and Julian Edelman look very different without Rob Gronkowski on the fields.
You what I mean And I just think like every time we like what we had a good year their way and merciless on the other side.
You what? I mean, like, it's some guys need a supporting cast who is a supporting cast last year.
Ah, who did they sign? It was, um, what's his name from the Lions that he used to play for the Lions.
Um, see, What is it? Is he good? No, that's why I probably can't remember Is that you say is not a coincidence, that that's the year that he gets.
Now I know he was injured, right? But is that Quinn? Since that's the year that he only gets 31 tackles and three sacks, and I don't think anybody's doubting that he found the obviously it's not gonna do it all by himself, right? Because he's not that guy, but he wants money like he's doing it by himself in this, with discussions going right, and it's like, Yeah, I get what he could do for a team But I wanted he had been caught.
That's what I want to keep him in this in context of what we're talking about.
What we're talking about is a guy who wants $20 million.
You what I mean.
And when you got when we start simply is good at this and that and he's not 20 million. Good.
You know what I mean? And his best years have come with playing with merciless or playing with JJ.
What? What a coincidence.
Because you're going up against everybody's second best tight end second best tackles Because JJ is going up against the best, right? They don't Houston again.
Bill O'Brien, stupid.
Never put JJ on a weak side.
You mean like, Hey, let's just get a guaranteed sack and playing on the weak side.
He always has JJ lined up on on a strong side, which means perfect.
You put him over there and you go, so I don't know.
That's my thing, right? He's not the forest black mare.
Who? How did you know that CEO Eric Armstead looks this year without the forest.
You know, maybe he was really a Robin because I think Black Mare was a big foundation of that defensive line.
E think he will be.
That's not where I see Clowney.
Yeah, I mean, I see Clowney is a guy who needs a Buckner toe.
Yeah, which is fine.
Your guy. Here's your 15 million. Enjoy, live your life.
He's not going to accept female, though.
You could buy a lot of cars for that.
Yeah, and, you know, he would have looked like a superstar in Cleveland this year.
You would have because you have been Robin to Myles Garrett your brain.
But that's what I'm saying.
He's not thinking this through.
No, but you guys, we have to agree that Clowney would make any team better, right? Even like a Patriots team that may not.
I don't think he would make the Patriots better.
I don't think we have the team for him to make us better, because he would have to be the A guy the pages don't have in a guy on the team.
They have this collective group of players that need know how to do it on that on the front seven.
Obviously, we have Gilmore in them in the back.
But if you look at our front seven, we've got an agent.
Hightower, we've got Lawrence guy who's a guy, you know? I mean, we got Lawrence got Lawrence guy.
We've got John Simon like we got a bunch of guys who just know how to play in the Patriot system.
I think cloudy would make the ray evens better.
He'd probably make the Colts better because you guys already have a foundation of those guys on the front seven, right? I don't that would make so nasty if he put to Davian, Clowney and Justin Houston and the fourth Buckner and various like, Oh, my goodness, I don't think in the system we run, you know what's proven? Didn't and look at Michael Bennet in New England.
It was a disaster, you mean and don't forget to in New England, if you're a front seven, especially defensive lineman, you're playing anywhere between 33 to 40% of the game.
He's gonna be just like Michael Bennett sulking on the sidelines because he's only playing 33 40% and then look, then Bennett goes to Dallas and he, you know, he starts playing good again and balance Jack and Jerry Jones boasts at it like it just didn't work in New England.
Right? And it was a good trade to go toe to Dallas.
So that's just where I sit.
Because I'm looking at I was looking at, um, his numbers and he still played like, 68% of the snaps for Seattle last season, right? I mean, so to go to a team like New England and dropped down to 33 that's almost half the time that you were playing.
You know, Saving Cloud is a guy who wants to be fed.
So I think in the right cir***stance, he would You know what? He make Kansas City better.
Because he actually switching in and out between Frank Clark.
You know what I mean? If Clowney would would play strong side ID like him on the Indian, because they gotta they gotta replace.
That's the thing that they're doing right now is they gotta replace cheered, you know, because they let Jamal here go, uh, into his contract this year, and he was very, very solid edge guy.
You know, when I can set the edge of getting pressures and stuff like I know all about the ball shoot.
I know you dio That was a guy, to be honest with you, that I don't usually get mad when Belichick Let's a guy walk.
That was a guy was upset about because you could have got him sheep, you know? And he was a big part of that Super Bowl in 2016 with divorce.
Very so he wasn't a superstar, But you could guarantee he did his job on every down.
So that's that's why he was a great guy to have on a team.
You know who I like, and he's retired now.
But I was always a Big Chris long fan even before he came to New England.
You know, again, a guy who he's not a 15 million guy like Clowney.
That's the thing.
If I could have a team full of Chris Long's Interpol sheared, you mean I would take that over a 15 $17 million clowning any day of the week because you can scheme those guys to be successful well, that's behind.
Ah, that's kind of what Kansas City did last year of their defense, right? They schemed a bunch.
Two guys minus, I guess Frank Clark.
But he's, you know, and and, ah, they scheme the bunch of guys, too.
It's like, What's his name there? Linebacker.
Other defensive guy? That he's gonna get a bullet of money next year. Jones.
I don't think Chris Jones is going to be as great as people think outside of Kansas City.
I think that he fits to Kansas City defense.
Get great guy like his life will be.
And if he stays in Kansas City, is gonna is gonna love his life outside.
Only he's gonna be as happy as he is.
Yeah, it's like how many Ravens players have left Baltimore and been useless.
Quite a few quite right.
It's just like New England players.
How many New England players have led to been useless.
Good defensive coaches built schemes around players right, and the best guys who fit into that are the ones who buy into the schemes.
I don't see it today being cloudy, buying into his scheme where he's only getting 40% of the snap because that's what he would get in Indy.
He wouldn't be a 60 70% guy.
He wouldn't be a 60 70% in Baltimore.
And I mean, really, I know you love the guy, but the last thing you need is it's David Clowney and Ed Reed on the same team.
Well, me and Ed Reed is not gonna be on the team.
Orel Thomas, you girl talking.
It's not every Earl Thomas. Earl Thomas.
Earl Thomas. Sorry. Sorry.
And I apologize.
That was an awful compares Earl Thomas.
Like you don't need both those those You want one guy like that on your team.
It was just I would take girl.
I would wide rather have URLs personality than did Avians.
You what? I mean, like, it's I don't hate Earl Thomas.
I just bought geeks. I know you love him so much.
I just I find if he always you know, you have justice things.
A lot of money gets in the way they think about it.
But I I like girl. Thomas do.
He was a big part of that legion of boom.
I loved that legion of Boom defense, obviously when we played them in the Super Bowl, but I loved it at the time, even though, you know, you mad bro with Richard Sherman like, I just love that whole legion of, But I don't know.
I don't know if you want both those personalities in the locker room, because it's, you know, now you got an Alfa Dog situation.
I think he'd be fine.
But anyway, I wanted I I know you guys probably did a stream on it earlier, but, I mean, I didn't really get to talk about it.
The whole Dalvin cook situation.
Um, you know, I think yesterday we mentioned that if he wanted eight mil okay, sure.
But now it just came out that he's asking for McCaffrey money.
I mean, are you guys on the same boat as I am now? Oh, he definitely get We said.
We said north of it.
We said 17 dainty anonymity.
We have two theories of what's happening right now.
My theory is he's trying to get traded.
He's asking for ridiculous money.
Once out of Minnesota, Lawrence's theory is he'll take about 13 million.
This is just a high A number to start and they break it down.
We looked at his at his market value today.
What did we say? What did it say? 12 million or something like that.
About 12 million with a market value? Yep.
Um, so we're like, OK, it kind of surprises both.
We way we talked.
It's okay for someone who's missed 17 games in his 1st 3 seasons.
Yeah, but we said okay, because, well, that doesn't make any comparison of the running backs.
When we looked at the running backs, whose compared to it was a pretty good comparable.
So they compared him to Zeke, um, Chris Johnson, which screws up the whole market, right? Um, David Johnson, who screws up the whole market.
Ah, a couple other guys And was we looked at it, and it was pretty comparable toe what? It was So, um, Olivia on Bell was one of the guys.
They compared him to write in those contracts.
So when it when the current market dictated about 12.
So we figure I think he's trying to get trade it.
I think he sits.
Toronto. This is him trying to get traded.
Uh, I agreed with Lawrence so we could see him take about 12 and then we both believe that he probably won't sit out the season.
They'll get something done before then or dull.
Trader right problem here is David Johnson.
That's the problem.
Because, yeah, he's probably telling the Vikings.
Look, you think David Johnson's better than me? He's making 13 mil.
So that's I mean, I don't think David Johnson is the problem in this situation.
I think somebody else on his team who still problem, I think it's Captain Kirk is the problem.
I think he's looking to Kurt going.
If you're paying him that, you're paying me this, that my jersey.
Here's something we learned today, though.
We learned a lot.
We did a good deep type on this, Um, he only played 68% of the snaps, which was way lower than everybody, sort of in his market.
That all played in that sort of 80 to 85.
McCaffrey's a freaky played 98% of the Carolina Panthers snaps last year, so the one thing we said if they were gonna pay him 12 million, he needs to get up to that 75 80% though, because the offense needs to run through him.
If he's gonna pay that kind of money.
See, I think he should at least play one more year before he starts with this holdout thing.
You know, because we've seen okay one good season, that you can stay healthy and you put up good production in good numbers.
Let's see it at least one more time before you act like that, Like Melvin Gordon, you know, and get screwed over again.
This is why I think he wants to get traded.
I think he throws a ridiculous number so they trade him away.
I also proposed that they trade him to the Patriots.
Right, Well, we'll hear me out.
So balletic says them.
Look, I can't pay you this year, but I have 100 million in salary cap next year.
You could be the guy to take us to the level.
We need to at least compete this year and her throw you the ball.
Jared Stadium will put up that wall to you.
We just brought in two tight ends who can block.
That's all they do.
They're not really passing tight ends and ah, you know, it will pay you next year.
And, you know, and if we if we are successful this year, you're gonna look even better because we weren't even supposed to make the playoffs.
And a lot of people are gonna turn around and say that that was the move.
And we think it's only gonna cost at the very most a second round pick.
But we think the Patriots could probably get him for 1/3.
All right, fair enough.
I still think it.
I still think nobody should pay him.
Well, im just remember, I'm gonna start a rumor that the Patriots are you getting for him.
Patriots trading for Dalvin cook there.
You're right there for your next video per feeding upgrade.
Also, you that you want to look at what Michelle did last year? 1 900 yards.
Go ahead 900 yards.
He had 30% of the carries.
Imagine if they gave him the 80 but with his average per carry A 3.5.
But he was 4.5 the year before.
All we need is an offensive line and a full back use a great running back.
I I'm interested.
I'm interested in what Damian Hairs could do this year. That's the guy.
The guy from out from Alabama.
That's my break out offensively.
So that's what I want to see.
Ah, actually get a chance to run the ball this year.
Little thunder and lightning kind while thunder.
I don't know what the Lady James.
Maybe if they keep Rex Burkhead, they'll have the lightning.
Uh, 59 minutes and 36 seconds. Voice.
I think it's OK to say, do final thoughts, Final thoughts, Joe on being Clowney.
And it somehow compared to Joe Flacco.
Yeah, that's what that's what I was trying to think about.
But, um yeah, man, I mean Clowney.
I think he's a good player.
I don't think he is to the level that maybe he thinks he is.
I think he should just take the best offer he can he can get, unless I mean, I don't know.
It's such a weird situation.
I thought I really thought cloudy would have been signed already.
So it's just weird, but yeah, I mean, just take what you can get you know at this point, it's It's You have no other choice.
Sadly, just Avian Clowney will get close to 20 million before the season starts.
I don't believe he earns it.
I don't believe that is something he's worth.
But I think by week one, some team is going to lose in a preseason game there for work through training camp or something.
They're gonna lose their top.
Dollar's gonna be inter.
And it's going to be Jude Avian.
Yeah, I could see that.
They're gonna get his pay.
I could definitely see that.
All right, Dak Prescott.
I mean, to Davian Clowney.
I made a video pleading Dak Prescott to take what he's worth.
Watch that and just replaced back with with the dating, and you'll get everything that you need.
You know, I think about you right now.
You know, I'm from with Joe.
Take what you can get paid.
Take the 15 in Seattle.
It's probably the best fit for you.
Even though you'd look like a superstar in Cleveland if they're trying to change culture, you're not the guy to change culture.
Pete Carroll knows how to handle you.
Russell Wilson seems to like you.
Go there, have fun, get double digit sacks, then asked for your 17 to 20 more than ask for your $20 million.
You can't come off a three sack, 31 tackle season 31 combined tackle season and say, pay me $20 million.
Gentlemen, it was a pleasure as always.
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I was reading the to as I got into it.
And what away? Perfect show ruined at the end.
Thank you, everybody.
Thank you, gentlemen.