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We're going to jump into a final review of the last dance I got my Mandel.
You've got my man Mike from off the record podcast.
So it's been a long 10 episode ride and everybody said it had a huge opinion about various things shared in the last dance.
So we're finally wrapping it up.
What do you guys this final opinions on on this thing? I mean, I don't know where you're going to start, but let me just heat us up.
I mean, last I heard, Scottie Pippen wasn't talking to Mike.
He's went into hiding e what's going on? You're gonna leave my men along? Um, well, you know what I'm afraid of the thank you for having us on Love the show. Great.
Love the pile of everything you do, Brother.
Um, the last dance was it was perfectly what we needed.
At the time, it was perfectly needed.
We all needed this.
Um, I didn't think it was the greatest do***entary.
I think when we were kings, we better think made in America O J was better.
But it wasn't meant to be that it was meant.
We can't prove that one about Muhammad Ali in the, uh, right by right through that you hurt him before, right? Okay, so, um, it was it was a It was a brilliant, exciting puff piece for one of the greatest players ever.
Um, and as far as your boy pipping going into hiding, listen, After 10 episodes, we see that Pippen is a great player with an amazing player.
He's a pump, though.
He's a punk, he's not a big toe, the pump and Carmelo, which we'll get into later, I presume.
But he's just is that he's Pippen's lacking a lot of stuff.
Um, socially, Um, he's, I don't know, just that he's not appealing as a sports fan, in my opinion.
Besides, he's just a great player.
There's no off tour, you know, But people like him in the media, and he's on the jump with Rachel Nichols.
So I guess he's, you know, he's well adjusted Well, I was kind of disappointed in the last a few episodes on Lee because I thought that the last two ever so is pipping.
You know, they would say face form, um, in one way or another.
But of course, here comes with a back injury.
People thinking that, you know, he's been soft or whatever the case, you know, he played, um and I remember that Gained like, it was just that I actually take that.
I had it on VHS.
That's when I was, like, such a bull stand.
But I won't take a couple.
Take big able VHS.
So I was a little disappointed, cause I don't think that he got to I think his main was cleared as much as I would like it to be, Um, but until he confirms that he's ****ed off about it, I I'm not sure I'm gonna believe it.
Now what I understand.
And being mad, I mean, because nothing came out of this.
Um, but Harry Yeah, but I mean, when people don't dirt on his name, but I think the true basketball fans like ourselves sometimes.
God, sometimes I think we know that your story a pick you mean? Um though your brother, the younger brother, the app actually text me this week to, you know, tease me about Pippen, and, you know, he's a little younger than us.
And I told him I was like, Man, I'm surprised at how many people really didn't know that story.
The cocoa story himself, Mother, Cocoa story.
And, um and he was like, Yeah, well, you know, I'm a little He's like I heard of it, but I didn't see it in that light like they put it out there.
So we knew the story.
I mean, it brought it, but it highlighted a little bit throughout his dad.
Um, and I was a little concerned about that when all this was going down.
But to me, Pippen is still he's my favorite player of all time, is a top 50 player of all time.
Um, he created a position that a lot of offer your players air are playing now, which allows them to be successful in the NBA's Oh, all the Pippa haters, man, bump your man, Lay off my men.
Well, I don't know if Scotty's upset another me.
I know he hasn't talked about it out in public.
But the things that they showed in the do***ent look not going in the game.
He'd actually did that.
I mean, some of the things he actually did.
It's years later.
I they won their six rings.
Might clearly said they wouldn't have won without Scottie.
Someone that does seem to be upset.
He's making the media rounds.
How do you all feel about horse May? It's just funny saying 60 year old black men still fight.
I guess that's interested.
Um, Horace, was he the snitch? I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I would I would bet that he waas you know, it probably didn't do it to be like an *******.
He just did it. Just talking to Sam Smith.
He's an investigator reporter.
They know how toe squeeze stuff out of, you know.
Um, listen, uh, I mean, the whole you not let me eat.
I hope that was a joke.
Like, I pray that that was a joke.
And I still think that the 91 93 Bulls dynasty was much bad in the 96 to 98 dynasty.
Mainly because Horace Grant Was this a much better player at that time than Rottman and could doom or contract better? Better offensively is just a better player.
I'm so I know these type of do***entaries bring this type of stuff out of people, you know, like, 2030 years later, you start these emotions come back to you, and then you realize just how much an ******* Michael Jordan Waas.
And yeah, he's the greatest player ever.
Um, but that understand from being literally a great aid prick.
I think horses mad because it's evident that he was the snitch, I think.
I think, you know, and nobody's happy when you looked at in any negative in native way.
So he had been he was portrayed as a snitch.
I think that he waas and I think it was clear.
I mean, I don't know if we all start opposed.
I think, actually, you close it it out about the article that he did in 93.
I believe when he left the bulls or whatever into me, that article right there tells me he was the guy because the stuff he was saying about pipping I mean, he got his money and he bounced in.
And then he started talking records about the team.
Um, and for as angry as he may be, he Oh, he oh, Scotty and my somebody check.
He got from Orlando? Sure.
They got the brother paid, so, um, I don't know.
I guess he's honest on his defend his main, uh, tour right now, And I get it, but yeah.
I mean, it was clear to me it was clear that he was He was the snitch.
The talk to me was clear.
I mean, who else? I mean, harder tried to say Phil Jackson might have been the snitch.
And look, one thing we know about Phil, Phil will talk to the media.
It doesn't hide the fact that he talks to the media.
So, I mean, 100% Phil gets like his Well, he's trying to talk to the team.
He goes through the media like brilliant in a way, you know? I mean, but when Horace Grant admittedly is best friends with the reporter that released the book, I mean, you come back, look right.
So it's like, I mean, I don't want to hear nothing.
Hordes gotta station, right? You know, somebody that I didn't realize was gonna be upset was burning Maxwell in Houston Rockets fans.
Did you all realize that they're upset that they weren't mentioned in the do***entary? I You posted that on the site.
And, um, first of all, did you see the Vernon Maxwell clip? When he goes into the stands in Portland, punches the guy then comes back to the huddle? Wouldn't happen to the Oh, yeah.
Oh, it was wonderful, man.
Literally, man, that he fits that name properly.
But listen, Houston, we respect you guys.
Champions tow us.
Growing up with 14 13 14 during that time period, we never considered Houston to be like a ***y team, right? I I was talking to Ah, Houston writer and I said, Look, no disrespect.
Tell Lodge Juan, but you guys get get looked over just the same way the bad boys dio amigos bird magic, Jordan.
Then like Shaq and Kobe and lebron like you got lost over and at least the pistons beat Mike.
You guys didn't even beat Mike.
You have six tries to get to the finals while Mike was actually at the top.
So why would he mention you, right? What? Did you hear that? Yeah, I think they feel like that.
He should at least mention them.
You know that They wonder they were back to back champion when he came back.
My problem. I even know you.
E don't know you, but, I mean make yo and one of the early woozy episodes between episodes three and five.
They had It was a small cameo when they show my coming back.
And they showed they flashed the what happened those two years he was gone, right? You know, I mean, they showed a clip of the the next and then the Orlando Finals.
And so but I don't know what else you want me to do in playoff way, i e.
It's not even like the Bulls made it to play that permitted to the finals.
What? Jordan was out lost to them or something.
Like they actually didn't play them.
And then in 96 the Rockets didn't make it back to the finals that year.
So I don't know that that woman, uh, Stockton hit that three of them, right? And that was kind of it for the whole.
Yeah, I like it.
It's a lot of that's a That's a good point.
You you bring up Alex, that it's a lot of people that fit.
That's mad at Mike Activist White.
I mean, no, I haven't heard anybody that I mean, that's really happy about it, really.
I mean, out of former players, there might have been, um, in the dark.
I mean, you know, even the ones that were in it.
Some of them refused to do it at first, you know, stock.
And they says, Doctor didn't want to be on efforts because he said it was full enough luck fast for Mike.
And I guess that's why I called it.
Um, did you see Carl's like the clip from him like a year ago? Talking about Mike? Yeah, with the way that the one who makes when he's in his beard and he's like I'm a bad lead to Yeah, he was a bad man is a second grade off. Whatever.
I still hate him, but he's the second greatest power forever.
There's no doubt about it.
Gary Payton is unhappy because Mike laughed.
Uh, you know Reggie Miller.
You know, the only busy read, only reason Reggie was in it because Jalen Rose had to talk him into doing Wow.
I didn't know that he wasn't going that he refused to do it as well.
She will touch on the stairs.
They had a couple notes there.
Let's start off with the Pacers.
It's written very edgy.
A Hall of Famer in your guidebook? Yeah, the basketball.
So let's be clear.
Gets the basketball Hall of Fame.
Not like the NBA Hall of Fame.
So basketball of fame is pretty easy to get in.
We, Reggie Miller.
What? Where would you rank him in farce? Two guards do.
A quick ranking of to Jordan is one.
Who you got at three. Jerry West.
Do we wait? Okay.
The way Jerry West.
You got What? Who's that? Four James Harden.
What was that? Five.
So we got Mike one.
Jerry West is four.
Or Jerry or James Harden is four.
Um, so then so where does ready start to come into play? Refugees in the top is in the top 10 to 15 activity.
But you also know he never made it all the NBA first or second team.
I didn't know that really move it now.
But you made a complaint.
The basketball Hall of Fame is like, you know, you hit a couple of jumpers, you can get it.
I think our players make it, you know? You know, European players make it grow.
But if it was just the flat out NBA Hall of Fame, I think he would be in.
He deserves a spot in the If it was just, it was separated like I think they should do anyway, if it was just a flat, eh? NBA Hall of Fame, I think he should be in.
I think I think he would be there.
I think that there needs to be.
Even if they had MBA all of fame.
I feel like that needs to be like a separate designation for, like Mike Russell.
Kobe obvious like there needs to be a separate destination for those guys.
Three years, right? Vlady diva is a really good player, right? We like bloody daddy, right? He shouldn't be in the same **** half Hall of Famers walked chambered e cool.
Well embodies defense.
So, you know, he had an opportunity not to go to Charlotte when they Jerry West want to trade him for Kobe.
He almost didn't go.
So the fact that he agreed and went and got us Kobe, that alone gets him in the hole for good.
I think that deep into it.
Okay, so I let me I shot this compared to how the NFL does, they hold the there's a much harder Do you agree with that? And do you think if they if the MBA adopted that style, it would work? Wow.
I look at it like this on the three Hall of Fame's, um, baseball is the craziest **** out there.
Okay? Because any time you have a Hall of Fame with no Roger Clements or no, the greatest player ever Barry, our guns, it's bull****.
Okay? There's and I don't want to hear about what you did after this.
Ty Cobb was a was a raging racist, and he's in the Hall of Fame.
Okay, you have baseball, which is crazy.
The writer is going to take all the pressure and blame and all that attention.
You have basketball, which everyone gets in.
I think football actually does it best because you can get multiple trips like Reggie Wayne didn't get in this year, but he'll get in soon.
You know, it's liberal to that effect.
Basketball just have to have tears.
And Bill Simmons put this in his brilliant book, The Book of Basketball.
There's gonna be like he has the look of the pyramid, but there's gonna be tears to it.
No V, I would you tear Hall of Fame? Well, like Like Like like Alex said.
Like a gold like gold level.
Homeless women shorter should not be in the same class as Reggie Miller.
They're just different.
Piers on the basketball sits right.
Okay, I was a six time.
I was six time NBA champion, M v P.
And you did it to make a first or second team all NBA.
Okay, for both Hall of Famers.
Okay? Yeah, would you? What you guys are saying is and this all the thing that you speak of, it would be, you know, Russell, will my LeBron risk as they got multiple championships, they will be in their own category.
You have guys like T.
And you have guys like Bob McAdoo.
Like maybe, like, maybe you do like, like that that the top tier guys air like they get.
They have, like, gold bust made of them.
The middle tier guys get silver.
The bottom tier guys brought you Distinguish that you get copper.
I mean, there has to be a way to distinguish thes guys and what they did for the game.
Well, you know, I think, like, I mean, even in the NFL, right? You know, these players are getting, you know, like I think I think we're kind of separates, you know, They're there.
Hall of Fame is is you can get in at the first Bali, or you might have got it on the fifth ballot.
And I think that separate race that lets you know, like, Okay, obviously, Mike would have been a first ballot.
Yeah, but Greg had been 1/3 Bali or whatever.
So then that that would distinguish like, I guess, the levels I get I mean, you know, I mean, I think that's how you kind of look at the NFL, like, Okay, you know what? Don't.
But you know what, though, Mr Parker, Um, the NFL's also being Are you gonna tell me that baby motion have been a first ballot, so? Well, ocean, a bit of first ballot.
I mean, they they all have what they all have.
Um, their fellow.
Yeah, because And now we've talked about this before.
Like, I've kind of research that a little bit like the wide receiver position and we going a little off the cuff.
But the the wide receiver position for the NFL Hall of Fame is the hardest hit position.
As faras first ballot players.
Or were they overvalue quarterback play right? And they only have like like, it's literally a handful of first badly wide receivers.
People are gonna know what's going on here.
This they're not gonna believe it until you look for yourself.
Look up first, battle wide receivers and is literally, like five, you know, throughout the whole thing.
So I mean, you have players like I mean, they all they all have flawed.
They're all flawed the way that they do it.
I just think that the NBA or the Basketball Hall of Fame I just think like I said, I think they just usher whoever's in like they look at.
Okay, who's who's eligible this year.
Okay, well, who's the top names on this list? All right, let me get K G.
Um, you know, Kobe was obvious, but you don't.
I mean, I think they do it that way.
Versace is really being some type of system.
You know, I just feel like it's a system like I like.
I feel like even this year's Hall of Fame.
So I feel like I understand why you love Cagiva, Kobe and Duncan.
But there's a clear gap between Kobe and Tim Duncan and then k g like there's a gap between the top, those two and then k g man championships.
G was like you should give back into business.
Honestly, you will keep it 100% funky.
There's a gap between Kobe and Tim Duncan.
I think so, too.
I don't think Tim Duncan is in Kobe in the same breath is Kobe, But you okay? Okay, okay.
All right. Now we're Laker fans.
Yeah, I or mvp's five championships.
Look, don't get Duncan.
Is I think, Don't get it.
Dunkin's legit top 10 player I could even argue with higher than top 10 is the greatest ever.
But if you the greatest power forward ever, I expect you to repeat a championship.
You never repeat.
Why didn't you have a repeat Because of Kobe Bean? Bryant was always standing in the way.
Also, Kobe Bryant led teams in the playoffs have a better record against Duncan.
Like Wow, listen.
But still, just the individual war don't get less right.
This is the individual.
This isn't the Spurs.
First Lake, this is me.
Vs You have blood in DP five.
Duncan has three MVPs.
Right? Four, right.
You sure? But I think he's got three.
Okay, he's got more than one.
So you think he should have mawr total than Kobe and Shaq have combined? That's ridiculous.
He was the best.
How for Don't hate him way then be picked with MVP.
Voting is almost like the like the like the Hall of Fame voting like Come on, dog.
Well, we know we know that the car that you know this book, that the 20th media market is No, not the media market.
But Duncan kept his mouth shut, and we know white writers like black players to keep their mouth shut.
And I'm gonna say what I want on my show, that the God's honest truth and we know that We noted The Colorado situation calls Kobe a whole lot of love.
I'm with you both.
Think Steve, Steve Nash and Dirk had Mawr, MVP's and Kobe and Shack.
Explain to me how that happens.
Yeah, it's something against.
They're served jail time.
He also he also lost in the first round of playoffs that year.
Remember a deed that was toe the warriors where we believe warriors.
How does that happen? He was so much of the M v p that words team was having dust out.
They probably would beat the **** out of you for the after party.
They had when they would.
Yeah, that's new, but that I say this.
I think the greats all walk in together.
I think Tim Duncan is sitting that are totally different.
Like if you're looking at a cafeteria setting, I think he's sitting in the We're don't think he step at the table that walks him a Birkenstocks.
Yes, they Kobe and Kobe sitting over there with Mike in them.
Like, Do you think there's a gap between Mike and Magic and Bird? Si.
OK, OK, OK, this is And we win an impact off the court then because this is this is the thing that's hard for me with the Hall of Fame arguments, if you I mean, if we looking at like it's how much of the hour off the court do you bring into these arguments? That's that's what throws it off from me.
Well, you have to.
But I think magic is just as important off the court is, Michael is in a different way, but I'm talking about my it from, I guess, culturally for the game, like the shooting, then don't you know? I mean, but we'll have the impact on the game with without So did you hear the story about, um, about magic, getting licensing rights to sell T shirts for then be a meeting? He's Jordan about it, and that's the reason why Jordan Jordan opted out of the NBA's licensing agreement.
Like magic, he was beyond his years with the business stuff, man it without without magic and bird providing that platform.
Jordan might not be Jordan, you know.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, that's a Yeah, that's true.
I mean, that's how I I'll say, I'll say it's a slight get to and gay because you mean even those dues themselves say like, All right, Yeah, just right.
I mean, we good, like we **** good with what Ball plate.
We can hope this'd dreams of special.
Yeah, and, you know, even may say so.
I say it's just like this is like and that's why I say there's a gap between Duncan and Kobe because you talk.
You hear the way players talk about cope like today's players.
Even LeBron talks about Kobe like Kobe's influence on the game and on these players, it's more significant than Dunkin's on it.
No one talks about Tim Duncan in that light, man.
Maybe like, you see high sense of sits on the Spurs bench we used trapped by the players on the team.
Probably don't talk.
Tim is Ah, he when he won his M v p with cut off shorts, much silver.
What else you have on the Pacers? Oh, so Well, I had.
Let's see, Yes, When Reggie is a Hall of Fame is a Hall of Famer.
Yeah, I thought the, you know, the respect that those guys had was really dope.
I love seeing that light on Jordan brought him out even after that little fight when joining Cat scratched him and he brought him out to the space jam games.
That was pretty cool.
And the last thing I had was is Indy, Indianapolis, The wackiest city in the NBA? No, with Salt Lake City is I'm just say so.
Yeah, Indianapolis or Salt Lake City. We love everybody.
You know, it used to be so hard for me.
It used to be like this with despairs to For some reason, it would be hard for me to watch jazz home games like it.
Just like the court.
Like, the crowd just did something to me like, it could be the crowd all of like salt.
I think this is yourself.
I mean, look, may I mean, there's no color there and the things that they say two players I mean, it's well, do***ent it right, Westbrook? Yeah, it was It was something about watching it and I liked.
Well, I like watching that jazz team play because they were a good team here, right? But it was just something, you know, if they were playing at home, unless they were playing the Bulls, I couldn't watch you.
I couldn't watch it with reason when you're Adam Keefe, an and one big dog car.
And we were big dog e great name, great name.
Now that that's all I have the Pacers, that game seven, Um, they've although they were really good seem like they were amazing.
They think two years at the After that, they lost the LJ's next when he hit the three, and then the After that, they went into the Lakers, and that was that after that.
But they were They were solid.
I mean, for for a good stretch.
You look at 94 95 when they had to nick battles and then 2004 when they had the mainly at the uh uh Now, is that the palace? They were still the team. Yeah.
I mean, what I'm saying like that that Reggie team And then that Mike era they were they were a solid team.
That's why I think on the last time we recorded, we talked about, um was that timeframe better for basketball? And, you know, we discussed how the team top the bottom.
NBA's top to bottom was a lot more competitive.
And I think that was one of those, you know, under the radar team that was sneaking up and they were getting better and better and better.
But they were competitive, and they would like, you know, they would.
I mean, I probably should have won that game.
They probably had a better roster, No doubt.
Um, it just might just just won't let us lose.
Like, I'm just not going to let us loot.
Doesn't matter whose houses out there, you know.
Um, well, let me actually all this.
So we were talking about Utah, right? So one, How did you feel about I know you remember when this happened? But like Dennis Rodman, middle of the Siri's going to do a tag team match Hollywood Hogan and N W.
O. And then flying back to Utah.
The guard Carl Malone, like that is, If that happened today, the media would roast a player Twitter would break you.
Just crack it be.
I mean, you know, being a huge rest.
Affairs like we were in w o greatest group every woo for life.
It was just incredible.
Um, it was just incredible.
I read something that Robin got fined $20,000 for that stunt, but got paid 250,000 from Ted Turner and the no brainer.
Oh, in the sports.
And I don't want to thank the old guy.
Oh, Boomer in the room cause I'm almost 40 but it was just different back then.
Like Like you said nowadays, you can't even think about that, you know? But these guys nowadays are all about their branding, right? Is that a big word with these guys? I want to work on my brand.
I want to work on my brand.
Uh, no, that doesn't look good.
I need my brand, you know? And he literally was working on his brand.
Like, you know, the question is, how did they convince, uh, Karl Malone, a team of a Diamond Dallas page and to do a tag team match against Hollywood Hogan and ride me like, how did Ted Turner and Eric Michelle pulled out.
And that check must have been Sit.
A lot of these guys like wrestling.
Tutto Yeah, you know me.
And to be honest with you, Karl Malone wasn't a bad wrestler.
He could do moves.
You had the strength in the size too, to definitely, you know, do the moves.
Let me let me say there's the answer. Your question.
First of all, I think like, first of all, now the problem is why wouldn't work today? It's because you got players.
That would be what s So let me let me back track.
I want to highlight the understanding of not just fill but his teammates.
Right, Because today's game by the players today, if you had a I've always thought that she coach everybody different, right? Sure.
You know, and we all know that from watching the doc light, you gotta coast then is different right from the Vegas trip.
You gotta let him, you know.
Hey, I gotta let him do the job so I could feel it back.
Yeah, I can get him back focused, right? The problem with today is you would have other players on the team that would hate the fact that he gives to do that and want to do to sing is that our understanding, like your systems are not.
So this is what we gotta do to get him focus.
We gotta let him go to Vegas for 72 hours.
Like who we have to.
That's how we get the best out of this do because we need him and you know what I mean? It would just be different like you would have.
And it will be the sixth to seventh best player on the team that would want to do the same thing, Right? Right, right.
That's what we're messed the whole thing up.
That's why that's one reason it wouldn't work today.
And then you don't have any coaches in the game.
I think that we had a ball to allow allowed actually happen.
But even a player being willing to wrestlers, it could be scripted all it wants.
But they get injured.
It didn't get you, bro.
We've seen Owen Hart die.
You know, they, like, seen its script it.
But is it scripted reality like, Yeah, I know nobody samu but you still go fall £300 in your neck.
Yeah, and he could He could have broke something.
And then Then what? Then the jazz might have 11 that finals easily.
In his contract it wasn't like a restaurant.
Cost you some of you a mash up.
Do you think they really didn't know where? Well, what's the Wait a minute.
That first time.
That was the second time he went right.
The first time he went was just to, like, hang out with them in Vegas when the second time was the wrestle.
Right? You know, the first time? I think so.
The first time he goes, he tells Phil and he supposed to come back And what, 48 hours and he doesn't.
Then George has to go get him a second time.
I mean, the way the doc makes it seem, he just disappeared and he shows up home on ah, Monday night.
Not Monday night, raw, But what was teeth? What was under Nitro? He just pops up.
They have to know, right? Like you don't think anybody knew somebody? Yeah, I'm with you guys.
Someone had to know like he had some friends.
Be like, yo, he will be with this.
So here's the thing, right? So let's say let's say the Bulls management new and he But when they tell him not to go But he says.
But I'm going anyway and crosses like we're going to suspend you.
And Dennis says in the finals, Yeah, right.
They haven't right.
Who else going guard? Provolone, Basically.
So at that point, the Bulls are identities. Mercy.
He had Lefferts Just no doubt about that. Yeah.
I mean, I think and it was one.
I tweeted about it that during that episode, like there were so many people outraged It's like filled it and filled in this field in that and I'm like, Oh, lot of you don't realize that feel really didn't give a ****.
Phil did want a hand back bodies.
He was healthy, the building care what he was doing.
Long as he comes back out, the in focus.
That's all I want out of him.
Didn't he didn't care where he waas, you know, out of me.
And I just wanted to make sure if what is he safe? That's all he was worried about, and It wasn't one of those things.
That's why his comment and you saw the practice when he came back when he was like a ****ey Simpkins.
You start tomorrow.
Even he said, No, you leave.
Get out of this show When people, when people ask like like Phil wasn't upset like they didn't do anything.
I don't think that people today realize just how big wrestling was at that point.
Like in W O Hogan, Bischoff.
There's their ratings.
Like Ted Turner, they were cutting.
I mean, they were huge in the late nineties, and I mean, they were doing.
They were doing finals numbers back then, and I just, I think, fill on top of that.
I think Phil just had an understanding for the man he knew like him in what he was doing. Nothing.
I will say this show like I knew about Phil's greatness as a coach, but it is that highlighted it a little bit more from me, like I have a little bit more respect for his greatness.
After watching his dot just just by the way he handled his players, just by the way he channeled to get the best out of his players.
Just how transparent he was was player just how hard he would go at its players.
Like I respect and is how hard it would go and management.
Like, Imagine your boss right.
Telling you tomorrow you Are you working the day when she's not working? Tomorrow.
But I need the bat. I need you.
I need you to close this big deal of data, right? Right.
Imagine your boss telling you that.
And you still being able to be like All right, whatever.
Let me far away too.
Make this something special so that we get the best out of this Because he could have very well lost that team right there easily you wanted toward season knowing that.
Okay, this is gonna be our supposed last one.
You know, you could lose a team just like that.
They almost did with my man pipping them because I hate to say, but yeah, you know, it's like I mean, so I just feel like I think he gets his credit, but I feel like this highlights a lot more of his genius.
Yeah, it was years.
I think people think it was easy just because you have great players that you're supposed to win.
Like Phil was managing some big ass egos from top to bottom toe win.
11 championship for the Eagles.
He's managed life.
Yeah, I mean, and at that time, you know, he had the biggest ego, which was Mike.
Who said that will cause a manic is a funny live.
So you So you had him.
You had my best player in the world.
Oh, I mean, you you still have to keep them motivated, even though I mean, he does pretty well, keeping himself self motivated, But you still have to hold him back to a certain extent before he kills him off. Exactly.
You got them, *******, just mentally and right.
So I gotta deal with that side of it.
Who's yo? Always mad you ball player.
But he's upset again, getting paid here.
You know, I'm saying, like he's a disgruntled good worker, you know? I mean, you got that always got that one working.
That's he's amazing.
He just disgruntled because he and getting paid to any ship or he's a lot better than what this job is offering. Okay.
Had that would pit you know? I mean, and then he just had to manage each little piece beside that.
Like keeping keeping the guys engage Because you got to know a judge Bush.
You're only getting but two shots.
He said it woes.
Color said, I'm getting five five shots.
So brother Bystanders court, trying my artist for really five.
You said to manage upset crossing, rise door to manage.
Just like you said, Phil might be the one that comes out of this looking the best, if that makes sense, Um, you see that? He just, you know, like I said, we were Bulls fans and then when he came to L. A.
I reckon we really get this song like he had to deal with.
I mean, the coat that that **** was just dealing with some eagles who are Some of the greatest players ever.
Literally are powerful, like these are the most powerful men in the world.
And you got a massage.
Um, keep others engaged.
Keep the Ricky Fox's engaged Keep the Derek Fisher's engaged being ready to go at any time.
We're going to need you masterful love the guys in Master.
I actually wish we saw more of him.
Do you all believe so? Cries Dorf came out and said he actually offered Fillon opportunity to come back and ah, he said Phil didn't accept.
But then he also said that Mike, um, couldn't come back because he had a cigar incident with it.
But the, um, cigar cutter where you cut the tip of his finger and he would have missed the whole following season anyway, like you all believe that.
Okay, um, I don't believe it was out.
No matter what I really do.
I think it was a perfect time.
Only six for six.
**** was beautiful.
It was, you know, the last dance.
And that's part of life, isn't it? The ending, right? The ending is really the only guarantee.
And like we do have, right? So I thought I didn't think that was coming back.
I think he was intrigued by L.
I thought he took a year off.
Get refreshed. Give me charging. Let me go.
See, because he was intrigued with Shack, he saw him play and it was a lock out the following year.
He might have thought there wasn't gonna be a season because I thought that, too.
And if our is the cigar cutting off, I've I'm a cigar smoker.
I've smoked many.
Um, you know how drunk you have to be the actual your finger and Michael during his hands.
I don't know if anyone saw him on the doctor like, 50 feet long toe.
Put your hand in the Clipper, and I want to know what the hell he was going to do that.
So he confirmed that That's what rise door said.
Not Mike didn't say it in the dock.
Ryan Stewart said he had cut this.
Cut his finger pretty bad from from the cigar cutter.
Well, that's one thing that I did when the actual to and watching that when he did say he offered them, um, what we offer.
Fill a contract and Mike said Gov.
Today jacket, Then I'm sure everybody would.
It took one year deal. Whatever.
Whatever. Right, right, right.
Do you think because that was the strike short year, Do you think they would have won that year? I told a lot of people were saying like, Yeah, they fired with the 17 winning seven, which is hard, sure looked like It was a straight short year, so that might have been a left for them.
I think that was that was for 50 games that year.
They would have been assuming, assuming Mike didn't really cut his finger.
I think they would have been a little more refreshed having 30 or 40 games off look.
So here's what I've always told my listeners.
They run into the Spurs that year, right? A rookie temper? Not will.
Not a rookie. Tim Nelkin.
2nd 2nd year 97 98. Yes, second year.
So, uh, Robinson's the best player on that team.
You have what? Mario Elie? I think it is.
I'm thinking he's on that bravery.
John Elliot Really need any of the black? I'm just thinking like who on that team Other than Robinson, who was obviously a great player, Duncan wasn't dunking yet, so were they good enough to beat the Bulls at that point? I think they're strikes one year, helps the pools ideo.
I think it would have helped him too, so that you're looking at again in the next year. Okay.
Am I supposed to keep bringing out back Teoh moves.
I think that, I think, is the 2000 season where I think the Bulls look at basically prime motivated Shack.
And it's like, All right, I don't know. We want that.
Yeah, I I left at the right time.
I really do six for six.
It's OK to leave a party a little earlier as the great count conferences.
I think I think I think Phil sticks around If before the before the 98 season.
If Ryan's door steps in and says, Cross, shut up, we're bringing Phil back, cause still had 15 rings like, Why did you need to see a six championship? To even want to bring him back, right? Yeah, in.
I mean, I'm still stuck on that.
Like, why even say what they want to build a team around? Tony Cocoa.
You see how that works? But definitely 30 years of rebuilding Why started season like that? Why even make that come? And I know that some people has been defending crowd saying that he did in the bad right? But I think he brought a lot of this on himself, you know? Got arrested, man.
So but you go and ****ing ego you who makes that comment at the beginning of the year to me, to me, honestly, Like he was so sad.
Without you, I could see that I could totally see that.
I felt like I feel like he didn't want them to when he didn't care, Give a **** if they want to chip in another championship.
But not I don't think he was so gung ho on them winning another one that year.
See, my thing is, how do you push out the greatest player, the greatest coach, the greatest wing man, the greatest rebounder? How do you push everybody out the door? I mean, I don't know me.
I just thought that was just a weird way of handling things.
Even if that should feel, you know, people professional about it.
Yeah, And then you say, even if you say behind closed doors to them, cool.
But to go to the media to say it I just felt like that was just I don't know, I felt like he goes down as one of the greatest GM's and ever, and there's no doubt about that.
But the way he handled that entire situation was again s death speaks to the greatness of fill in that team at and any industry at any company.
If you're in Phil's role at any at any job, if you if you you know out.
So whatever product or service or you've won whatever.
If you've done it five years in a row, you've basically like no one expects that a couple of years, maybe five times, like they'll exceeded all expectations.
Eso At that point, how do you walk into your your your your your coach's office or your number one employees office and say, No matter what you do this year, you're going? How do you do that? He's already getting generated all this money.
One all this, All these championships like who does that to one of their best employees? I feel like the play.
I feel like a coach like that.
A player like Scotty in my you let them go on their own, you know, right? Yeah.
I mean, you know, we see we've seen what happened with Tom Brady.
Did she? I think eventually things like that do run its course, right? When I think of me, I think there's a mutual in a respectful way to go about that.
But a coach like Phil, even if he made the offer, didn't feel say he didn't want to go through a rebuild.
Yeah, he felt feeling ill due to rebuild.
So I'm assuming that rised off didn't guarantee you that he was bringing the the cast that I want you back.
But listen, E I mean, you might I have in mind.
I look the same.
We rise doorstep.
He could bring back Mike, but he wasn't gonna bring back to other guys.
And Mike wouldn't coming back without Pippen.
So get anything was very It was just time, I It was just time to we went six for six.
The Patriots was a good example.
But craft isn't pushing out Belichick and Brady, right? I mean, and Jordan was still at the I mean, he was obviously starting to decline, but he was still at the peak of his powers.
He still, you know, he wasn't jumping out the gym like he wasn't 91 but he was still beating everybody.
Yeah, so Okay, cross cross, let it go to his head, man.
Yeah, I just I just never others never understood the method today.
I just, you know, I feel like he will sign the same even trying to sabotage that season like a listen.
I mean, imagine May fill, and then you walk.
You walk in your office, and then you look through the window, the glass window, and you see Tim Floyd walking down the hallway with which your boss, my They have a good old time like it was traded.
So they let me ask you guys this that makes you guys this, Um so let's talk about the 1998 finals.
Um, the flu game.
Let's just all let's that Let's just get this out there, Right? So now it's It was *****ed pizza.
Right? And this is exactly the reason why I go to little Caesars.
Um, So you're telling me it already have.
Ready? Been here five minutes.
You'll pick it up.
Um, do we believe that story? The *****ed pizza? Five guys showed up at the root.
I mean, the guy I hope so.
You know, the guy came out who delivered the pizza, Said he was the bull saying, I mean, I always heard it was a hangover game and I'll say this if he if he was actually drunk and hungover, that's more impressive than playing with the flu.
I mean, we've all been hungover before, pretty badly trying to get up and go play high level basketball on dropping 38 points.
That's the **** impressive eso.
Whatever happened, I don't care what happened.
Like Look, man, they said five do showed up with the You just so so like, really? And now I've never been to Salt Lake City and I know it's a Mormon town that we love our Mormon listeners.
30 though I can't get, like, gonna watch, get a sandwich and nothing, it doesn't so waiting this.
So you have to think about 98.
I mean, I don't know why they just in order something from the hotel like Michael Jordan can't get something from the hotel I open.
But I will say this, though in their defense, there has been plenty Hala stores and and after that, after that ed, there was a lot of NBA players that was coming out and sharing my core stories from other visiting cities that they went to in the hotels refusing the feedem and stuff like that because, you know, they just so engulfed in their team that they wouldn't do anything for the visiting player.
So maybe they were saying maybe they treat my like they could have poisoned them.
I remember that time we went to 7 11 and Mike out poison from that hot dog.
You got the big bite.
I, uh I mean, I'm gonna go with I'm going over the hangover game, but I will say this the right before The director said that I don't know if I agree with him, but he was like you were hungover.
The symptoms he had are of those that's hung over like vomiting and my guest that that's a symptom of some kind of bug over.
So I don't know, but the heat of the believe that it was that he was he believed that it waas food poisoning or or the flu or whatever he feels like.
It was one of those before it was, but on over it had to feel in the setting of somebody ever hangover.
Me and my boys Children in the whole time when we in Salt Lake City.
Nothing to do, No shame.
It's all the salt lake.
But maybe I just get a feel like it's not much to do.
We chairman back total ours and we getting drunk.
Well, let me say this.
You know, Salt Lake City actually has the most trip clubs in America.
Just now they are very fully clothed.
Like they have, like, Mormon.
Like, how does it work? I don't I don't know if they have clothes on or not, but, uh, that's what I heard that they actually have the most of clubs.
Nothing pointed so late at the strip club and then hung over, had pizza and he But I mean, whatever it was hungover, sick or flu.
So what did he dropped a game.
And in any bank, it bounced with five banking on the favela.
They're that I mean, either way, it's still impressive.
Performance way look visibly sick.
Calling, calling them should be ashamed of themselves for letting that go down.
What the So they played yesterday.
And if you have thought it was game six, but they do like HD version.
Did you watch? No, I don't think so.
Why don't you double him? Especially in the fourth quarter? Tony Ku coach and people are gonna have to beat me like I'm cool with that.
I can actually go to sleep knowing that these guys beat me.
They know double him at all.
Yeah, they let Russell cover, um, single cover to cover.
And it's like ****.
It's, like, you know, baked these fools.
I think they doubled off for their guys sometimes.
But, you know, that's easier.
Said that done with that? I mean, like they had.
Yeah, they were go to state before going to stay.
Yeah, they have shooters like I mean, it was perfect.
Like they had the perfect born a sec.
Oh, cast of guys like you.
You you had I mean, they actually go.
They had everything on the team that that you would want if you double like Mike was a good pass and Pitt was morning and Coco's, but pit was was more than capable of winning a game for you.
He did it and play.
Yeah, but not would have broken back.
Well, that gang, I don't know what? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Like the last 40 seconds to play when Jordan, at the time out of joining, comes in scores and four seconds off like, l double him, Get the ball out of his hands and I can live with It's tough.
The double, Shaq and Kobe.
I can't double both, you know, I'm saying, but like Bucket doubled him, Get the ball in his hands, you know? But one more thing about the Utah hopes out there I've been to some nice hotels.
I've been in some bad ones.
No offense. I was younger.
Um, I've never seen a piano in the room E.
That was impressive.
I thought he was joking when he said that in the thing earlier.
Was I? Yeah, I was playing the piano at the bar.
I'm sure he got the sweet of all sweet then. Whatever.
I hope that they end.
A piano, though.
I mean, you Kobe, you said I mean after I don't know if it was after he retired or during the season, but he said hope pianos in his room cause he was teach himself out of play, I'm sure.
Very sure, for what I need in my room is I mean, come on.
I mean, if you if you're Jordan and you need a grand piano, they better **** forget you a grand piano.
If they got to get the joint from the lobby and bring it up to your room, you know, bring it up.
But that's just sideways like that.
They write up in the door now, Another thing First, I wonder, Really touch or look, we touched on the last episode, but this Jordan's support team and his team around them yet Gus had the other guy with the perm and a couple other people like you talked about to do that look like by from our mark, Um, take on that Like it sounds like he didn't hang out with people his own age or younger.
We hung out what Ahmad Rashad, these kinds of like 50 and he's like, 35.
I think those guys were literally his protection.
They didn't look like what a problem was packing, they would think us.
Guess was that's was old.
But Gus I think Gus was there.
He probably kept it kept snobby.
You get that? Hang on.
I will say that. His CAFTA characters.
It was a little I kept me, but he did say that he had a hand.
He started hanging around older people to keep home, you know, grounded and level headed.
So maybe he felt he had to do that, too.
Or instead of becoming I don't know, Uh, luckily, I don't I don't know.
He did mention that self control tactic.
Yeah, but I don't know.
I mean, I think somebody in the doc said that Gus reminded Jordan of his dad.
Yeah, he became what he became his father figure once.
And I was about to say that I think that he, you know, he also was looking for a father figure type.
You know? I mean, somebody that was, you know, that could play that role.
That's with him all the time, cause you know, James Jordan was at all the games started.
It was just interesting.
Like when we look at our survivors of today, it's like it was my boy we like, you know, I grew up together.
We're, like, upstate age with the same music.
We're piers, But these guys that he was hanging out with her like I mean, would you be surprised that he didn't have any friends? Who? Oh, whoa.
You know, I say he's a maniac.
Um, that's a good That's actually a good question, bro.
I mean, you usually see one somebody, that's which. You from your child.
I mean, would you be surprised me? That was That was something that you did.
People used to say.
We used to say about Kobe like, and I think that came along with this story with the Alan Iverson story.
Well, you know, he got away.
I like I'm going to the club.
He like, I'm going to the gym like a different type of people working.
So, you know, I don't know.
I would be for crowds of those dudes.
Didn't have, like, friends like we are, you know, like, you know, they had ah, crew.
Like my head is security guys or whatever in his driver, but I don't know, I would you know, I don't find Mike to be socially awkward.
Kobe phone first.
See a little bit of a near coming from Italy.
So I think that's Yeah, I think has my group in.
And he was born in New York group in North Carolina.
But Kobe Father being in the N b A playing in Italy, I think he was a bit socially awkward for a long time.
But don't you think that when your mike and you reach the level that he did There's this idea of if he has his friends around him that they might expect him to, like, take care of them? Yeah, Like I was watching a re Remember the show True Life on MTV from years ago.
Look, show it was brought into life.
Jersey Shore? No, I was watching a rerun of it from 2014 this morning and literally there.
One guy had won the lottery and he had won t see kept saying I hit the lottery and they're gonna pay me $1000.
Ah, week for life.
Well, actually, they would give him a $32,000 check a year until he was, like, 80.
So, you know it's free money.
But so when he went traveling with his homeboys, he was paying for, like, everything.
And you quickly realize $32,000 in a year is not a lot of money, right? I mean, I'll take it right, Right, But and so maybe when you have all your friends around you like, maybe it's hard to have people around you that they're not gonna have that kind of wealth that Mike has.
Like, he was tight with Barkley for years.
Maybe it's easy to be tight with people who can at least write, pay, pay their own way that all people, that you feel like art around you because of who you are, Right? Maybe you know about from marketing and gusting them.
You know what? Maybe he felt they weren't there because of who he is.
And if he did, if he did something for him, then cool it out of the kindness of his own heart versus them, expecting him to always pay to get me in a club or buy me a car or pay when we go on these trips, I I got will feel that.
And when they were talking to Gus, his wife.
I feel that might still take care.
He paid for his funeral right then.
They said it at the get hey was paying for his doctor's appointments and stuff like that.
I mean, she was dressed like any was a retired cop, so I'm sure.
He might have been OK, but I just got to feel that, Yeah, my, he's interested.
He is, um, after.
That's one thing that this doc really showed, like, how interesting he is and has depth and his layers.
And he's He's not as simple as I want to be like Mike, you know, like that whole image has kind of tarnished in a way.
But he's still interested, and he's just a incredible player, man.
He just he's, uh, incredible.
What do you think about the Steve Kerr? Part of the doc is Ah, a little snippet, I think is extremely interesting learning about his father. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that was really interesting.
Um, in terms of his impact with the team, he obviously a huge shot.
I don't know if he needed to have 15 or 20 minutes of the do***entary, I think more that is fueled behind him being a great coach right now that anything Right, Right, right, right.
I mean, you said it was quite.
I kind of knew about the story slightly because I think I saw some of the story made was a part of what they thought they touched home.
Um, e angry, which I don't think you needed a whole 15 minute segment or whatever it waas.
Um, but I don't know.
I mean, I guess it was that.
I mean, somebody went back and forth with somebody on Twitter about it that night when they said that, but I'm like, Well, some people don't realize that, you know, Terry got five rings.
That couple dispersed.
If you count the one with the coach, you got eight.
So great winner.
I mean, so I Maybe that's why you know he's a part of it.
I mean, he got the hardware to show that I mean, is that I mean, you know, and I think he's recognisable to for today's watchers today, you know the meaning of the NBA.
So you can you can make the argument and I think it's true.
He is the most successful person from that Bulls team outside of Mike and Phil.
1000% 1000% he is.
He's pretty much successful anything.
Believes a TNT when he was an executive and I was the coach of the three time champion like he's and he says that he takes a lot from Phil and pop like he says mentors and the coaching ranks after Incredible.
And I never thought that he was Ah, you know, exits and those guy he's not going to be pulling over, you know, pick and roll like Tom Thibodeau.
Um, by the way, we don't need to see tears back in the NBA right from there.
Okay, you're not gonna finish looking at him.
I know he will, cause it's the good old boy network and every sane recycle bums always come back.
But get back the car.
Um, just like you said it.
It seems like a very humble cat, like he's like, I wasn't that great.
I found my niche.
He reminds me a lot of Phil Jackson who wasn't a great basketball player, but he won a couple rings with the Knicks.
He paid attention to the Red Holzman, and he became one of the greatest, if not the greatest, coach of all time.
And, yeah, current did the same thing.
Learn from filling pop.
Kept his head down, played hard when he needed to be in the game.
And he's literally one of the most successful people in basketball. Now.
You've got a far I was told, people, unless you LeBron Anthony Davis, James Harvey, you gotta find your niche.
Not everyone is going to be great.
Find your niche, B Harrison Barnes, you know? Well, yeah.
Be here tomorrow to I got 88 men.
You thought that you You thought hairs and Barnes is gonna be a superstar coming out of college, right? I thought he I thought he had the body.
I thought he had the jumper.
I think he went to the right team in Golden State.
He just I mean, that 2017 finals, he just crumbled.
He didn't know he did.
Still sign of five years.
And any sign? Another one, I think last year she d a mill.
He's he's made a thing for him, so he just maybe this hand.
You got it, you know.
So I think you made an interesting point.
And who is the next successful from that? Bulls? One that 16.
So it's got to be between Dennis and Scottie, right? I think I'm thinking B then B.
There are some who is an agent.
He said, Oh, it might be BJ.
I mean, Scotty, he was on the jump for a stretch, right? He's gonna jump.
I mean, I'm really surprised.
Got he didn't get in the coaching because Scotty was just a good basketball mind.
He was a great basketball mind as well.
So I thought that he would Naturally, maybe I honestly I saw him being care before I saw her being who he is.
Now, I'm not saying that.
I thought Scotty couldn't was gonna win three championships with coach, but I thought that that would be his next step.
Just to be in the coach.
For whatever reason, it didn't go that way, but maybe he's coaching his marriage up.
That's a low blow.
A low blow borough.
Earlier. Sorry it got.
Listen, Pittman's a great guy.
He's very good at what he did basketball.
He just It's just too many blips on the rest of my what, like not going into the game.
Our mission was to Fritos and ended in the finals like the migraine game, like migraines.
Legit man, I can.
I can vouch for that.
I with you, I must say, How is that a blip? If, like like, to me, physical ailments aren't That's not a blood him not going into the game.
That's a blip I've seen.
Kobe Bryant, though, played the whole season with a broken pinky like I've seen Kobe Bryant hit it head and free throw with a tourney killing just.
But I've also seen Kobe Bryant refused to sheet in a playoff game.
Gets the Phoenix done. Don't own on dog.
That didn't happen.
I'm not the edit that part out E.
I like picking the guy just is this kind of He just seemed like a like, uh, he's just not my guy.
But I will say Carmen was very classy when the game was over.
Game 60 came on the bus and give everyone a that that ****'s class so she now? She brought a car.
Malone, Where is everybody issue with this clip. That station.
Are you saying Hey, let me see if I can pull the clip up to because the clip I was Okay.
So let me just say this.
I think a lot of the issues we call Malone have to do with it.
I don't know the specific details about him getting a 14 year old pregnant, I think.
And so there's that aside from that, were along with that, just like in the 19 eighties and nineties.
In on top of that, he had he had two Children and he wasn't taking care.
Right? Right. Sure.
04 Remember the Get it in there, brother.
The boy just spoke out recently.
It said something, so I don't know.
The boy, like, defended him, I think having their own yet I think later on I mean, how ironic one sheriff pull it got to the w B A.
No, they had a relationship, but But he had a son.
Didn't you have a son? I went to They had a scholarship to have s you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carbo load is just He's a poked by nature.
Creates power forward ever, but everything he does the whole Magic Johnson.
Oh, I am playing with him.
In fact, blood there he couldn't get a that that, like back then, man like I'm not falling for that.
But the way he said he couldn't just came off Such like everyone else was cool playing with magic.
He still, But he went to the Olympics with him.
No, But why would say anything that would you get my I mean, at that time, you know, like the knowledge of it was So people ain't no, he didn't know you like And that's how people thought that chicken you can pop elbows with somebody with HIV, you would get it.
I agree, you know, saying so is like they just want educating over that at that time.
I agree with you have me My probably should have said it said in the way that he said it.
I kids man up no smack you when I see you.
But I mean, I wasn't really, really I mean, I will really understanding the backlash from the clip there's that was dial up how we lost him.
You know, he got no, He got a time when it is, That's what happened.
You talked bad about Karl Malone, but, I mean, but, I mean, I really didn't I wasn't understanding.
Like people was like, Oh, I can't stand this guy.
He could have been.
He could have did the Michael Jordan dark.
What if he didn't want? I mean, I don't see anything wrong with the clip.
You know what? She They asked the man what he thought about Michael Jordan.
When you hear the name Michael Jordan.
He said Michael? Yeah.
I didn't have an issue with it either.
Let me let me get him back in here.
I didn't have an issue with it either.
That that you get your dial up right? Carmelo's at the door and mailman let me play. Let me play.
The mailman's on his His words on on Mike named Michael Jordan.
Like what else I need to say.
Go ahead, Talk about of the games. Exiles.
What? What an *******.
Why do I have to? But I tell you this.
I'm all man and I accept the responsibility of not winning.
And we were there.
We just happen to be playing the Chicago Bulls, which wouldn't just Michael Jordan, by the way.
And I have the utmost respect for Michael, But I never thought I was playing Michael Jordan.
I would play the Chicago Bulls, but let's not, you know, everybody say this person was a bad man and all that.
Well, yes, I give them respect, but I got to set up.
I'm a man, and I was a bad something to So that's Ah, look at that.
And and that's who I am.
Maybe in my older years, I can call it that bluntly.
But I'm just calling like I see it.
So I don't know what people are upset.
Just upset with him.
You okay? Like I was going in, I'm like I would be saying that was why I'm a man.
I'm glad I did it for him to be like they won, you know, give real game right there.
I mean, it's NJ has a cult following.
Okay, is he has people that it doesn't matter what he does? Beat up.
Ah Fed beat up player.
He has a co op follow because he's so good.
And like he said, Really, that Clinton and that, like Malone did anything in flame. It's over.
You know? We just We just don't like him.
I don't like him from the Kobe thing.
Did you read that story? Yeah.
I know about the Kobe situation.
Like I'm gonna come hunting for Mexican girls.
****, I would have ran a bullet, but that's just me with Janhvi.
But that's just me.
Because, you know, like, he's just a punk.
Uh, I'm sure he's probably a really nice guy, if you know.
No, Like, probably Lawyer was now probably much nicer than Michael Jordan.
I mean, you know what? Salt Lake City is probably the perfect place for Karl Malone.
He probably still lived here.
I didn't Louisiana, but I think he drives to tractor trailers back in front.
For what? E tell you what a man.
What? I mean, yeah, that people was going in on that clip and I just didn't really understand.
Like, I understand what was wrong with me.
I mean that he paid my kids respects.
He said I'm a bad man.
He really was yet.
So the only thing I could pull from that is like he didn't want to answer the quote.
He didn't want to speak on the game six.
When when he stole the ball from putting said, like you, I take I take responsibility, right? Right.
But, I mean, he didn't want to go.
He didn't want to speak going and that, I guess. Okay, Cool.
That's one thing I take from that to say I you other than I e didn't do anything wrong with being a curse.
He just does Karl Malone, man, you say might, you know, my got he got his high like the baby How ah, 100% he has people that actually say, Like, I was asking a buddy of ours.
Um, would you want your kid to grow up to be Might be like Michael Jordan and not, you know, being a great basketball player. 67 whatever.
But just in general, treating people the way he treated people and, you know, he was like, I mean, I don't know, like it's a tough thing.
Do you? Would you really want your kid, you would You want your son to grow up to be like my I think you asked me that, too.
I thought you was talking about Mike.
If the package is back with ballplayers, I'm looking at looking at the parents.
I don't know, though.
Mikey going go to be six.
I don't know, but I think you only get you only get Mike's personality.
If you get that level of success, bring bingo.
I said that I don't want that I don't agree with.
I think Kobe Bryant was Ah, uh ah.
You know, on the clothing store.
He would still have the same type personality yet, but his clothing.
So it might be one of the highest grossing Carling stores.
Wherever he's that you know, like that's That's how I view those, like whatever the whatever.
If Mike wasn't 67 let's say he was 57 If he was an accountant, he'd be one of the best **** accountants at whatever firm he worked for, right? So that's how I see it.
If he if he was just lazy, he wouldn't have that kind of personality, And if he did, people wouldn't pay him any attention.
Yeah, those Jews And just why I like you spoken this those Jews and just why you're different.
Like you said when we spoke on this a couple weeks ago and I said after arm will be *******s like that, and he was like, Yeah, I just think on a different level.
And then I found that Kobe, that Kobe story that I sent to you where Coco the teammates.
He had been in office at the facility.
It just want to see which one goes up with his arm in a sling.
What you doing? Things like, I'm just gonna say body you bums.
That's about to get straight.
Like wouldn't Axel, I think that you You almost have to be like that.
Like I think I've just Okay, let me let me We can't that statement in the circle back on it with Mr Jordan Post basketball, Right? Um, it's just part of the NBA.
Were let go with the Nike thing.
He has very successful sneakers.
Team Jordan trustees.
We level all the shoes, right? We don't love trannies.
Now, why do you think he's been such a dismal failure as an MBA? owner.
So here's the question.
We don't know how hands on he is is an owner.
You hire people, and maybe those people have just been bad.
Or maybe he really is hands on each of making poor decisions and executive department.
We did. We simply don't know.
And look, man doesn't come up with the person that delegates to you on the basketball court.
He certainly passed the ball right.
Look, look, you only got quiet.
Yes, he did to anything.
Here's the truth.
Typically, people who are If you're that gifted at one thing, you're not gonna be that gifted at something else.
God blesses you to be an amazing surgeon.
You're not gonna go if they'd be able to catch the 50 yard touchdown bombs.
But it doesn't work that way.
So he's good at basketball.
He's also good at selling sneakers.
He might not be the best NBA owner.
He he drafted out of Morrison.
Adam had mad game. And Gonzaga.
You Dad, I think the thing with that is you And we spoke about this before to like, we give that good at something.
You expect the other people around you to be, just as that's why they, like I said before, that's why they don't make good coaches.
Larry Brown with Larry Brown was a rare Larry Bird is probably the greatest basketball mind you see.
I'm sorry, Labour.
And then and then the Z comments.
You know, he was a salad coach the But I live in that.
Like that's why magic Magic lasted nine games.
All right, right, right.
You know, I mean, it's just because they you expect people to function like you do.
Yeah, you know, in in the just like you.
I don't think he realized that we can't do what he can, do what he does.
And he recently came out and said he could still beat some of his players.
Yeah, I thought that my right.
I really believe he could I bet he could.
I d probably get somebody kept on the theme.
Yeah, I just I just post up and just shoot that fade away on you on that.
I can't guard you like, you know, 30 feet out, right? He's an insane, interesting guy.
Not not my favorite sports hero of all time.
But he's top five.
You know he's up there, but he's not personally my favorite.
I think he I personally don't like his attitude.
I mean, I just mentioned Magic, one of the greatest basketball players of all time, but he sucked as an executive for the Lakers.
He's one of the greatest businessmen.
Its story is amazing, sucked as an executive sucked as a coach.
God blesses you with certain talents that don't always translate to something else.
And that's what it is. That's true.
I mean, like, I think I would say, I think, part of his issue.
And I think he's starting to realize, um, because early on with Hornets for the Bobcats, whatever you know, he was bringing on Doom's that he was, you know, his people. Yeah.
Yeah, and I think that he started to later on.
And now Now he's starting to read lies.
Okay, I need to give a little bit of free rein.
Well, you know, I think he got he hired Mitch cup check now, right? Yeah.
Mitch is one of his guys, but Mitra is a really good GM, right? So, like now, at least in the new carry on the **** Clark.
A lot of bodies release.
He tired of North Carolina bloody.
He has some something back in his name, you know, turned on the Dairy West.
I mean, so he knows.
I think that delegating probably is hard for him to do.
Short, sure, but I think that he, you know, I think he learned in the video Wouldn't we judge in 10 on as an executive or an owner championships? Because No, no, no, no, no, no.
That championship BS is crazy.
Only one team wins and it's using the same three or four teams I'm going to say.
How about over 35% winning percentage? The guy putrid.
It's hard to make moves when you're on the 18 4 with three cars and six cups of tequila.
Well, wait a minute.
How long has he been? He's been the majority owner of the Hornets For what, Five years? Six years? No, it's gonna be a leash.
And Bob Johnson sold him the rest of the team win head appears like with five or six years ago, I thought, I'm Lucy. 10.
Let's say it's a decade, right? Obviously, the team wasn't good when Bob Johnson owned.
It hasn't been good while Mike has owned it.
But when you look at other teams, James Dolan has been the primary owner of the Knicks for it. Two decades.
And they've been putrid.
Robert Sarver with sons.
They've been pewter, except for the Nash years.
Like Jordan isn't an outlier.
There are other owners with deeper pockets that their teams have been bad forever.
So before we judge him, should we be looking at these other guys who can't seem to get it right? That's true.
You know what it is? We quaint Jordan's great effect, you said, but some people can't do everything.
Most people look at me.
Look at Ryan's Dorf.
He had one window with Michael Jordan, and the Bulls ain't been good ever since.
Other than the Derrick Rose years.
Yeah, they thought they would, I think they said in March of 2010 was when he became the majority owner.
So a decade, I mean, I do like Leinsdorf demeanor.
He denies, not he denied that he, like, snatch amount with that.
He's so like I did this, I told people not to take the contract.
It's like it's like, Well, you signed off.
I don't believe that either.
I think a lot of people probably told him not to sign that.
You know, I just think he wanted he saw the years, the comfort security, which is cool.
But you out played it.
And you, you know, MBA money came in.
It's a I mean, look, at least got he got his money later on from Houston and then with the Blazer.
So you know, as far as this do***entary goes, I want to wrap up on this.
So you guys know that ESPN has not ordered, um, do***entaries on Tom Brady? And it feels like the success of the Jordan do***entaries now making these networks say what we want to get Mawr.
And so look, Mohammed Ali stories been told over and over, So I don't suspect we'll get one on him.
So is Jackie Robinson.
But like you start looking at the next crop of athletes post short.
You know the event it will be Brian.
Do***entary will come.
Tom Brady's will probably come a Tiger Woods will probably come.
That's what are some other names like, who were two or three names you guys can think of that you think will get do***entaries of.
And at what point? Like should they just wait? Like Brady still playing? Why do we need a Brady doc when he hasn't even finished playing yet? LeBron will get one.
But who are some names that you guys think? Would Floyd get? One, like Tyson should get one.
So we are we thinking, like something that could be 10 parter like this.
Well, so let's use Jordan's template.
A 10 part who's got the career that you could get a 10 Potter out off Magic Johnson.
You could get a 10 parter as Patrick, I think ai you could a 10 parter.
Did the well, Tim Parts nothing.
You give five? Yeah.
I think you could get five out of a, um, in the john.
He's alive, right? You could probably get 10 out of the Georgia that before we get there.
Did you Did you got like, the PG Doc? I didn't even watch.
I liked it, but I thought that it was short.
It was short, which then made a scene kind of Russian condensed.
I think that I think they could easily got 3 to 45 out of that big if they really did it.
But it just seemed like it was good, but it could have been.
And maybe because it was running at the same time as the mic joint, right? You know, it means you're probably premiered it this week.
Yeah, and it made me think that it could have been a little longer than it was a couple pieces, but that's it. That's a good question.
And it's got to be number one.
Okay, so let me let me just throw some names.
Actually, let's start at the top.
Kobe is an obvious one.
Will get one from him eventually.
He said you could get a 10 part of Kobe.
You agree? Even get a 10 part out of magic.
Would you Could you get a 10 part or you get a 10 part out of out of tiger, right? Tigers number one.
Um, could you get a 10 part out of Jerry Rice football stuff? Could you get a 10 part of the Romans or Randy malls? Pig mail.
Okay, and maybe what could you do it? Could you do the Mannings and get a 10 parter? Yes, Yes.
Archie, Eli and Peyton.
Over and get Cooper.
I younger me once called your younger brother Cooper.
I take that back in my older egg.
Um um Steph Curry when his career said and done.
Yes, the warriors totally.
Could Katie get a 10 parter? No, no, LeBron could LeBron could about shot Barkley.
I even get a 10 parter, though.
Ah, three at three.
Could you get, um so, Floyd, 10 partners Florey.
I don't think you could get 10.
You get close to it, though.
Willfully, I think.
Could you get a 10 part out of Mike Tyson, Right.
I'd well get 20.
He is the most him.
And Jordan, like we're the most interesting people of our lifetime.
Sports wise, Tim, part of Barry Bonds.
Yes, I know what you have to.
I think you could get 10 but you would obviously have to touch on.
He got a wi willing to open up about that.
That George? Yeah, there's a lot of people, and if you use the same template that they use with might.
There's a lot of people that will probably speak out like, you know, like Gary Payton's and all of that that he would have to address.
You know what I mean? Like people that saying they be cheated or whatever.
He would have to address that, but I think I think he stressed him out of very What about a Rod and Jeter or a deter? Too boring Gina to Gina's.
Yeah, he's very secret.
What about a Rod? A right Jack handle a row.
You probably could, uh, he's he's Ah, yeah.
A bra is a good one to Serena Williams or the Williams sisters.
Um, you might be able to you might be able to get I don't know if you could get a food flat 10 out of them, but you can get against a good good show.
What about shot? Did you say sat? I did, but I think you could get 10.
Partner at a shack.
I think it be hot, so you could definitely get a five parter.
Who? Tim parts are long.
It takes a lot of of content, you know, you gotta be a Really? That's what then Tyson could easily do it, because So you just do three episodes of, like, the rise of Tyson, you know? So who else is out there that you could get a 10 parter out of? Uh, what about a team? I think the Cowboys could get it to impart.
Yeah, Patriots get Temple harder.
Um, the Lakers and Celtics could get 10 partners.
The Steelers? San Francisco? Definite diners, definitely.
Nine has got that ***y to the Raiders.
Should the NFL, you could find, but yeah, thieves think about connector Redskins by.
They could do like the **** RG three.
Could be three of three episodes.
Yeah, you know, like, yeah, no, I just think I think Tiger would be the most one that I because he's got a lot of drama with, um you just like the salaciousness of him.
His scandals e if I wouldn't think Everybody My mom.
I've always been Buddhist.
I would be, But like you said, like, I'm afraid that they're gonna start trying to push this ****.
Your sure you can water down like hopefully 11 a working on like you know, even the top ****.
They shouldn't even announce that it needs the weight, man.
Like they don't come out till next year.
So is he gonna retire next year? Basically what they're alluding to now that they know he every time you have to get cracked up for room.
I mean, I just hope they tried toe Russia and could put out a whole bunch of farm with you guys.
Gotta watch the Bruce Lee one and the Lance on from one.
And the Mark McGwire one.
I saw that lance joint.
I'm not gonna check that out.
It looks like he's gonna talk about the juicing or whatever he was doing.
I'm gonna check that out.
I didn't know they were doing a Bruce Lee's going.
Yeah. Three, right.
I don't know. I love the part about three.
I think it's three part two that he got a good story.
And I mean, it's ****ing cycling.
Who cares? I mean, hey, there's a There's a lot of weight.
I mean, if in any cycle is out there, I don't know.
Yeah, that's a really good question.
Is, can we do some research and brainstorm and come back home, sir.
I mean, that's cool.
I I think the list is short.
I think I think, Yeah, I am afraid that they're gonna try and milk it.
Like you said, Mike.
And it's gonna be like you're gonna if they If they use Tim episodes, you're gonna end up getting to, like, five and six episodes, and people are gonna be stretching those last few. Yeah.
I didn't let me actually, before we called.
You think that we're going to see any more episodes of this? It's not the last chance.
Last thing Netflix says ever reason to sell it, right? Like what else? You're gonna watching on Netflix if they don't have some extra details? Exactly.
So I was watching.
I started following the director one Twitter and I g.
I watched a couple interviews with school.
He said that he has obviously has the footage.
He haven't gotten a call yet.
He claims, um, but the way he was kind of talking and one of the interviews, it was kind of almost hinting like yes, begin.
Might asking for another bonus episode or something like that.
Something was something along those lines, so sure, sure.
I mean, we gotta but content at this point now, But we're joking.
I mean, what would you do? Like you closed it.
I honestly wouldn't go back to, like, 80 89.
You know, we could do the slam dunk.
It could be anything like it so much about a slam dunk.
Yeah, it gets so much film out there, we could do anything.
I mean, listen, at this point now, it's so much content that is needed in so many spaces to be filled.
I got one for you.
How long before somebody gathers all the players that are upset and puts them in a do***entary? Yeah.
You like rebuttals? You don't have to watch that, man.
You like my huh? Thing is, even if even of Jordan nephew Well, people are interviewing you like you're cashing in because he even left you out.
If you're relevant again, bro.
It then what? A lot of people also has to really have to realize he didn't edit this ****.
People think that he literally was in the studio, like not take this dude out like you didn't stay your chop that like I mean, like people gotta realize it was rushed.
They had to finish it.
So it was a lot of cutting, you know, They had to go down, so we don't actually know what was in the ****.
You know, I'm saying so.
People need to relax, and I do find it interesting.
That is his beehive has come out of nowhere that I ust needs people in a minute.
But they surfaced out of nowhere.
The Jordan Jordan lovers is in full effect out of nowhere ts.
He has core fans who don't give a **** what he's dead.
They're gonna love.
It's hero worship, you know? I mean, we worship heroes up in that still way.
He's a **** hero.
One last question for you Call that from watching the data right from which you already knew previously.
Before the doctor.
Is he the greatest basketball player ever of all time? Your your opinion is is he the best? Is he the goat? Yes, my book.
He is the greatest battle I've ever seen.
Um, I reserve the right Detained my mind on so But look, man, he's He's the greatest of all time and I and I I always say, I think Karim has a legit argument right there.
I think Will does to I'd look, he's the greatest and not just for what he did on the corporate for what he did off the court.
It's not just the finals winds, it's how he won its everything.
Everything about her. Yeah.
Did that change that figure at all? No.
We were fortunate to have been old enough to see him play.
So yeah, it just cemented it like it was He was already the greatest in my book.
Well, I thought it was a good dad.
I mean, with all cir***stances.
I know there was some people saying that seemed it was confusing the way they jump back in for But I think it was good.
Man, I think, was the Yeah, I thought it was good.
It was It was a part of peace.
It was very exciting, was the greatest editing.
But it was good for what it was and we was winning.
Hash it up the watch.
Hello, people that couldn't follow the jumping back and forth.
That's an indictment on America's education system. I agree.
I mean, I didn't have a problem with that.
I thought that that actually bring books, got you more engaged, you know, me.
Got you height, that watching the old highlights and then boom, it jump back to the point in the story where they were trying to, you know, highlight.
So, you know, people won't find something and everything, but Yep.
And I'm sure that ESPN and Jordan, everybody knew that people are gonna find issue.
Whoever does a dock going forward, people gonna people gonna love it.
People going to hate it.
That's just the nature of it.
Doesn't even matter who likes it or who hates it.
People gonna watch.
And it's all that's all it's about anyway.
Tell currently this viewership on this train was a roof.
Yeah, well, we'll close on on that man.
Appreciate you fellas.
Coming on to close out the Our review of the last dance makes you guys watch this thing on YouTube or Twitter. Weber.
I'm posting it right now.
It's on a number of different places.
And make sure you listen to the podcast.
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