Hey, what's going on? Everybody? This is Mark and Steve from Hoop Dreams Back with another podcast episode for you guys.
This is Episode 12 were streaming live right now on a few platforms or on Twitter, Facebook and SportsCastr.
Um, if you guys are tuning in, definitely join in comments and let's know what you guys think you know on the topic just left at hand that we're gonna be debating soon.
Um, I do want to start the show off.
Um, with an apology.
I do want to set it off with an apology to Steve.
I took two l's yesterday.
Yeah, and I'm coming out.
I took two l's yesterday.
I'm coming out is a man, and I'm admitting it.
I admit when I'm wrong.
So the two l's that I did take yesterday was John Stockton was in the last dance.
It was Karl Malone who wasn't in it.
So I was wrong on that.
I had said that Stockton had said that he didn't want to be part of a puff piece, but clearly that was untrue.
So who knows where I heard that from, Uh exactly.
And then the other one was if you guys that are tuned in yesterday means that you've had a little debate.
We had a little video of, ah myself in him going over the Bulls.
And if they would have won eight championships in a row at Jordan, not retired that first time and comes out, I'm scrolling through Twitter later on after that.
And I come across an article from from MJ himself saying that I would have just took a toll on him on even him.
He himself thinks that that probably wouldn't have happened.
So I have to say, that's probably another one for you, Steve.
What do you think? I'm just here? Just trying to do my best version of myself and the fans.
You know, I just hope that, you know, I was man enough to admit it. I see.
I had to come out.
Come on, live and let everybody in all draw.
Well, the Stockton thing was, like, kind of over the top, like I told you, he used like I don't want to put peace.
And they said that this isn't a puff piece, so I knew he was there.
I was waiting for him to come out.
I was just happy that we got his nice face in the 1st 15 minutes of that episode because, you know, yeah, a little bit about little victories, Mark.
So we are starting out.
We're obviously going to go over the last dance.
Final episodes were last night, and it did not disappoint when we all thought we knew it was gonna be great on, and that's exactly what it was.
So it started out, um, Pacers, Siri's Eastern Conference finals, going through that serious and that was hard for it.
What Siri's even Jordan himself.
All those guys saying that the Pacers were the toughest team that they played and probably tested them the most throughout their run to those six championships.
Onda. We saw that during that.
That finals Easter Carpets final.
Siri's Reggie Miller even came out and said he thought the Bulls are vulnerable.
He wanted be the one to retire MJ Um, and it went down to seven games, and even in that seventh game, Steve, we saw that it wasn't a cakewalk and the Bulls were down.
I believe it was Double digits were like seven minutes left in the fourth quarter but they find a way to rally around their team and went well.
I know we talked about the other day.
We didn't include Jalen Rose on that roster, but I think we went down.
They had Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Chris Mullins, Rik Smits.
They had the Davis brothers, David Hard McKee, the Cherokee Travis best.
That team was a really good team, and they were coached by Larry Bird.
I think each team held serve on their own core old four games, correct O R.
I believe it went to games back and then went to Indiana, and then Reggie hit that big shot big on you. Game four.
Ready? Hit that big shot because he knew they had a chance to go.
They'd be down 31 if he didn't make that shot in Game four.
That's a push off shot on the the crazy spin 3 60 dance.
After he was done jumping up and down, we saw what the big factor and that Siris was.
It was actually the rebounding.
Um, Indiana came out Game seven, I believe you said they jumped out to a lead.
They actually started the game.
They jumped out to a 14 point lead right off the bat.
He was 26 12 or something stupid, and then the Bulls.
Still, we got back into it.
But the biggest factor in that game was at one point it was The Bulls had 20 offensive rebounds to, and that's where they kind of just dominated that game.
They grinded that gamed out.
I do have to ask.
That game came down to a jump ball between Jordan and Rick Smith.
It's gonna win that jump ball, and I mean, I kind of did he just like, I mean, Jordan because exactly like the Bulls got possession of it.
So that goes down as a jump ball went for NJ in that situation.
But, I mean, Andy's hand was nowhere near the ball or experts.
It was kind of It was kind of a questionable jump ball to.
I'm just saying, like from the rest, Wait for him throwing it up.
Oh, no, no. The tie up was questionable.
Yeah, it was a quick That was I don't think that was a time No, no, it wasn't driving.
Jordan had, like, one arm in there, but it was like for a second there was as soon as they did, they call, they call the jump, all right away.
So, um and the tip out came and then current the big tying three.
And they even said it At that point.
I think Joe and Rose was the one that was on commentating said that we basically played like a junior varsity squad for the rest of that game, like electricity just filled the arena and then they just didn't have an answer.
And that's where that championship DNA just came in and they put them away.
It was a great series of definite was the one that tested, but there was an X factor in the series that once again no one was aware of.
And it was that Jordan's security guard a que slash father figure gust let actually made his first appearance after battling through chemo.
Ah, with was leukemia or is it like you mean it, I think was leukemia.
It was leukemia and ah, and that actually was a great story.
Um, because he was the guy that kind of took over that father figure role after ah Jordan's father passed away and we kind of got to learn about him.
We already knew about the other security guard with the gamboling, The one with white hair, I believe, quite excellent thing through the straw gray.
He beat him in some coin toss game and we're playing against the wall.
But it was just like another humiliate, uh, one of those moments where you've got to really see the other side of Jordan.
The emotional side, the people that really closely affected him and kind of got him over the hump.
That guy basically became the father figure.
Went with him everywhere, was his protector.
I think I think a moderate shot did a good job of describing what that guy did to him.
We got to meet his wife.
So we knew that when Michael is going through the issues of his father like that guy was always going there during the middle of the night to be with him.
Yeah, it actually go visit him, not just talk to him on the phone.
And obviously that fever was returned.
When Gus got his diagnosis, Michael took care of all his medical bills forum.
Make sure that he was in the best shape that he possibly could be.
And then that guy showing up to Game seven was obviously a huge lift for him emotionally.
Yeah, it was huge.
Andi Andi definitely needed him there.
He had that devastated do***entary.
He always wanted Gus around.
He was one of his best friends, like you said, a father figure, and that definitely, I believe, played a huge part in that in that game.
And anything from the gecko to is Michael's mindset was Where would in this game, like, even guaranteed a win in Game seven and the press cards before you said, You know, we will win Game seven.
You don't see many athletes guarantee and wins these days, and even Phil Jackson had had in the back of his mind.
I think he knew they were gonna win.
But pregame he was getting them prepared to say, Hey, guys like you guys could lose this game.
You have to be okay with the fact that there is a chance that you that you could lose and Michael um said so we're gonna win this game, and when I lose in, this game is away.
So he's very confident and that his guy like you, said this guy just being there played a part in And, um, you know, they go on to win and, like you had mentioned, Steve Kerr hit that Big Three to tie and kind of a Segway into the next thing you know, it got into a cut into kind of Michael and Steve's relationship again, Um, with Stephen and I didn't know this, but they kind of had a connection as faras both of their fathers passing and kind of how they passed.
I'm Steve's father was a professor and leave yours at U C.
To start on, that's all.
Steve kind of fell in love with the game of basketball.
He wants games up. Pulling pavilion.
I wasn't really highly recruited, had one offer to Arizona.
I'm like, right at the last second.
He just took it without even a visit to the school.
So while he's in college, his dad goes away and he goes to a country where Americans just not they're not like there under the war is going on.
And the beliefs that Americans had were in the beliefs of what what the people there believed it, and unfortunately he's gets into a bad situation of two people posing as students on.
And he was actually shot in the head, which was just a crazy story to hear that I never I never heard that.
I never knew that Jordan and Steve I kind of had that connection with how their fathers were kind of murdered and everything like that at night.
It's one of the biggest things that kind of took me by surprise that that episode yesterday Well, yeah, that was a great thing.
I really kind of brought more life into the steep Kirk character.
Obviously, the connection with the father's now they did say that they never actually had a conversation about one another's fathers while they were playing together.
So what's up, Mark? Thanks for tuning in, man.
So he went to Beirut like you said, like there was a lot of animosity, especially with Americans over there.
It was an unfortunate assassination attempt, and, like you said, Steve was away.
At that time, he was actually attend Arizona University, and the one thing I learned about that was screw that event.
You kind of saw, like how some of these guys take things that they do and use it as like a way to get away.
Like Steve said, that he went back to his normal schedule.
He was back on the basketball court the next day, and a story that I was like reading today was they played a They played their, ah, one of their foes, Arizona State, and he was getting it from like the fans about his father's death, like 30 minutes before.
They were chant horrible things, Adam about that.
And he said, like it rattled him.
But for 30 minutes prior to the game, like he got into a better mindset was able to get through.
And I think he actually came out, went six for six from three, scored 21 things like that kind of carry your right like and what you brought up the most was he attended the early seventies UCL games, which was coached by John Wooden, which had that hostile wouldn't have a crazy the Bill Walton teams.
I believe they want four straight championships that year and being around that and you'll know that even as a father with your son, like exposing them to certain things weight, whether it's just one of one playing basketball or that putting them in a great like one day, you're gonna be, I promise you you're gonna be able to bring Harry to a Celtics game.
You know, even now when I take Harris into, like, you know, my son will go to games, Will Goto Um, University of Rhode Island are Providence College will go to see those games, and all the kid wants to do is just sit there.
And he's absolutely in love with how the players are so athletic, how they can jump, how they can dunk, Um, running up and down the court is everything.
How they contribute the ball.
They're making three pointers from far away.
You just so amazed with the game of basketball, and he absolutely loves it, and he's taken a liking to it at such a young age, which is just for me or for somebody who's played basketball.
His whole life is like I couldn't have dreamed of anything better than that.
Yep, and things like that confirm you as a child and obviously him being able to build that pedigree not only with the game but being able to build that bottom of this father like that kind of carried him all the way up and it ISS.
It does suck because, like, obviously, you wish that things like that would happen and he would been able to enjoy more of Steve's career.
But yeah, it was definitely nice to be able to see whether it was on a bad note to kind of get to know more about this Steve Kerr character.
And the fact that I learned today is Steve Kerr is the only n b A player in the last 50 years to win four straight N B A championships because after he left the Bulls at night, using the Spurs right was offers Indiana winning a championship there, too.
So you know that guy's a winner, and I think one of the craziest things they said to and that family was his parents were super strict.
His mother ended up becoming a professor after she was, you know, she was a full time mom for a while that ended up being a professor, they said.
For Monday to Thursday, there was no TV in the house unless there was unless there was a big game.
The dad always came through is always getting through when there was a big game who has made sure to put it on.
So you know this him is Steve.
They had that. They had a great connection.
It was just unfortunate and kind of awful to hear how you know how it all happened with his father there.
It's things like that that resonate with me, too, because there was times in my life that, like, if a Monday night football game was on and you were a young kid and your team was playing like, you know, my mom would go to bed and you know my dad late on a school night No, I like I would pretend to go to bed early, and then I knew that the I knew the old man was gonna come get me at, like, 45 shovel me downstairs.
And we were going to sit up till late as I could stand it and and watch that game.
So, you know, we've ever found out about that should kill you.
You know, it is what it is, but like that, that's the kind of moments that you live for and, you know, for car, like you said, like his mother took on more of a fundamental role going up because she was a stay at home Mom.
I don't know if the father passing made her want to have to work or do whatever she needed.
She went that way.
Before that he was She was shared that becoming a professor before he even passed.
So she was working at that in many ways.
But we saw how everything, you know, between him and Jordan, his relationship and all unfolded in that in that 97 finals called Culminating in the Game winning shot.
Um, which is and that just goes to show you two how smart both of those players are because they kind of broke down that play.
How they Jordan had run, not play earlier when he went left.
He knew earlier in that serious stock and came over and double team.
He remembered exactly encourage.
You can hear him say straight right in the little use.
Like if he comes off, I'll be ready to shoot it.
And, of course, what happens? He goes last. Freckles of problems.
Stockton comes over the double team.
Michael splits it and kicks it right to occur for that open jump shot on that.
The foul? Yeah, And then I was just like that just goes to show you how smart of a basketball player Michael Jordan was and how great he was because he had to face everything.
And any time he had any sort of slip up like that stuck with him.
So, like you're talking about, that was Game one.
Stockton comes over for that double team, and it was a funny reaction.
Current gave because he's like Michael was so smart because he knew that the cameras were always on him 24 7 So he's sitting there.
He's got a catering.
Get is like covered.
His mom occurs like I got you.
If he comes over the O S.
Oh, yeah, that's just the way it was in another part about that.
Siri's going into the Jazz series now was.
Obviously there was always going to be a matchup assignment from Michael, and that one was Byron Russell, and we'll go back to the chip on the shoulder thing.
What happened was when he retired, he ran into he ran into Ah, car Malone Jazz practice and Byron Russell got up and started giving him the business like he's like a why you retire and, like, you know, like, you know you want this smoke.
And it was like even at that time, Michael's not even thinking about basketball anymore, but as he called.
But that day Byron Russell made the list like he made the list, and it's just so perfect to because he already had a scouting report ready for him.
Like he's like, I know that he plays on the front of his toes.
I know that, like all you gotta do is you can shake in both ways and he's just gonna be flying each another way.
And, yeah, it's just it's just another great.
But the crazy thing is to like all the other players in the N B, a new like Malone's like No, no Mike, Mike the living we just a young guy ET doesn't know.
He's just a young buck.
He doesn't know yet, like he literally struck fair.
And so the whole league like not to get on the, you know, LeBron Jordan debate again.
But I saw you know Chris Broussard today? Um, because it was on first things first that he's saying, You know, the way LeBron ran through the Eastern Conference in the way he made that Eastern Conference just looks so weak.
And he won so many games in a row and went to the final so many years in a row.
Michael Jordan did that to the whole MBA Western Conference season conference like everybody feared him.
But where the Eastern Conference was faring, LeBron, you know, And it was just, you know, everybody was scared and everybody who was talking trash was like Just don't do it to the guy.
But then again, like we've seen in this do***entary, even if you don't talk trash, he just finds little this thing that kind of get him into that, that zone where he needs to be in where he's just all out step on your throat, win at all costs mentality, No, even if it's like the Byron Russell talking trash or the one where he made it up.
The story about the guy with the, uh, who's the guy with 34 points on him.
We never heard the story with the Wizards.
It was yeah, that guy.
I think the guy said the good game doing, which never happened.
Michael just completely made it up on DeGeorge called, not saying hi thing, which is like, the smallest thing that you didn't say hi.
So what? And that he's like, Oh, that's right.
You're not going to say hi to me.
All right? Now they're going to get to get the business, you know what I mean? He just found a weight it to get in that that different zone it was It was just crazy the way he went about things, I think I have started.
Great interview today was with B.
Armstrong, and the question was like, Do you wish that your on that second part of the three p? And he goes, honestly, he's like he's like, I was just proud of Mike and Scotty.
I knew how hard that first threepeat was, but knowing how different they had to be the second time around and why I say that is because as you get older and that's this is what any athlete, you're not gonna be able to jump as high as those young guys anymore.
You're not gonna be able to make this quick, you know? And so you need to be smarter.
And and that's what he waas like he was.
And we can talk about that playing game, Game six, that that turns around and wins them an MBA championship.
It's just things that, like after a while, like he could just go into the his brain completely changed his game from his early years, too, though that last three p like you would see him in the eighties.
In the late eighties, early nineties, he was attacking the rim Duncan on players, Um, and then later on, where he was not as athletic, you could still get to the rim.
Don't get me wrong.
He was still getting his Ducks center, but when he wasn't as as athletic, he turned into one of the best post players that we've ever seen.
If he got you on the block, it was, you know, the pan it fade away or unopened under.
You know, he'd get you on your feet on a pump, fake, you draw contact.
He's found different ways to score the basketball as he got older and he was able to change his game, Um, to suit his, you know, athletic ability as he got older as well.
And I think we talked about yesterday like we wanted to go mawr into the flu game.
Like how that actually that operation with and and how crazy is that? No, like, yeah, we were only one place in town that's open, and he's the only one eats pizza.
And I think the more alarming thing was that five guys showed up to deliver that one pizza.
Now, five dudes So we can say it one way or the other.
Like, why is there five guys show? Well, if they knew Michael Jordan was there, they probably wanted to see Michael shortage.
Um, but we're going to turn around, and now we're gonna swing it that it's food poisoning.
Ver natural came out.
I saw a tweet last night when this was going on.
Vernon Maxwell came out.
He's like, this is the reason why I don't need the food in Utah like I feel like this is a known things for N b A players.
The fact that he was saying that and let's not be let's be real here, like we can even say it to this day like Utah, has some very, very disingenuous people.
As faras fans go.
I mean, we've seen them gettinto many different weird shouting matches with fan players like with Russell Westbrook in the last couple of years and what not? I don't and obviously being a Boston guy like I know that there's some racist comments that's come out from fans that don't really this racist comments everywhere. Dio.
I mean, like, you know, you know how it casts certain shadows on certain markets just because one person I get it, I get it.
But those being those fans were really all into it.
And I think they even show Jordan's kids that Jordan's kids weren't even allowed to go to those games just because of how Rockets that environment truly was just at home in the ba*****t once again.
So the flu game was by far.
I mean, I think he scored 38.
Yep, if I was corrected and you know you already scored 38 he needed that.
He needed every one of those 38 because, like I said the other day came down toe John Stockton needing two free throws and he ended up missing the front end, which ended up causing them to gained three to advantage and then eventually go back to Chicago and claim their fifth championship.
Yeah, that's crazy to one of the things that I found out.
I didn't know this either, was Jerry Sloan had no idea Jordan was sick in that game.
And so the box score at the end where he was looking at it, is in the postgame press already is like, I mean, who and who knows that that's believable or not like, did he really not know? I mean, there's no, obviously, there's no social media back then and you know, But you gotta assume that the reporters new pregame that Michael wasn't feeling, but it was all over the broadcast TV broadcast.
Um, so you just got to think that there was someone some way, somehow that he would he would know that in to use that in the game plan.
Whatever. It was attacked Michael on the defense.
When he's on the defense attack, Michael, make him play defense.
Do what you gotta do to get him out of his rhythm.
Um, but, you know, I just thought he was able to will his team to victory with 38 points.
And and, uh, like you said, man, they move on from there and, you know, we go into a game Game six.
I believe it was, which is what we talked about, what the current shot.
They win that and the best thing, too.
I love about the Game seven.
I'm sorry the 97 championship parade was Ah, when Curry gets up there on the point, really speaking and he's like, You know, the other night we were in the huddle, Phil Jackson drew up a play, said, Michael, We're going to get the ball to you.
And Michael said, You know what, Phil? I don't feel comfortable in these situations.
I think we should get the ball to Steve and everybody was just losing it, man, It was one of the cool, cool moment said that I saw and everybody was laughing.
And, you know, even the MJ was laughing.
The guy you don't really see laughing too much, and, um, you know, it was good to see that the camaraderie that those guys actually had Well, I think it was the last thing that he said was, Well, I guess I'm just gonna have to bail out Michael again.
Yeah, you have the bill, Michael again.
That's my story.
They could do it, You know that.
That was a great line.
And I mean, that was their fifth championship.
And then, you know, and like, we start like, ah, few episodes, like they kind of did exactly what we thought it was gonna be.
There was gonna highlight that Pacers game, and then the 97 files.
And then it was leading into the 98 finals in Episode 10 and basically the closure that we all wanted and talked about yesterday occurring.
So we pop into the 98 finals, and that was actually a much better jazz team.
I think they swept the Western Conference finals that year, and they were basically they were waiting on that Bulls Indiana Pacers matchup for a while.
So you had a very you had a very bewildered Chicago team coming in and not only coming in, but they had to actually go to Utah to begin that Siri's.
And I said it to you earlier.
Um, you see Jordan on the bus, and he's and He's kind of bopping around, you know? And I think, What do you listening to? And he's like, He's like, I'm listening to that new Kenny Lattimore that and that is not out yet.
And you get this, my friend, he's like, I know people. That's my friend.
I had the only a list.
I had no idea who Kenny Lattimore is.
And I know how, like most people get revved up, they're listening to like but Jay Z Knauss, like, you know, doing stuff like that.
And I look up Kenny Lattimore and it is the softest R and B music that I've ever had it.
The first song I was actually from The Lion King soundtrack, and I had no idea that Kenny Lattimore just sounds like a smooth, like arm.
Be name I and I was like sitting there, and I was like, How is so keep swept by my man like this? Listening to that and you said mellowed about like it did that and it was kind of a testament to get well amount, But it also goes to a testament of what Jordan actually had became later in his career.
It was a guy that found pleasure in playing the piano, you know, slugging a couple beers before the game.
You know anything that he could do to get himself to bring himself down into a zone that didn't get him all worked up and, like a sudden, with most players like it, feel like it's a different attitude.
And for Jordan, it just wasn't that way.
Yeah, back then, too, in that 90 in that 98 finals Azaz it showed.
You know the series started in Utah.
Utah was the better team record wise that year.
But I thought, you know, going to that.
That would benefit the Bulls, because back then the finals was that 23 to format.
So you had the two games at home and Utah, three in Chicago and then the last two in Utah.
Utah wins Game one.
Bulls win Game two.
When they got that split, that's like, Okay, we get three games in Chicago.
We have a chance to win the series in Chicago.
Now, Game three is one of the most lopsided games ever history of the finals, and believe it was what, 96 to 54 which they looked at the box score.
They showed very stories like Is that the actual score? Like it was just embarrassing for Utah, like they shouldn't even you know that it was It was so embarrassing that it was almost like a regular season game, like where they were trying to get everybody in the score sheet by the end of it.
Like I think the combat like the oil it has scored and the shoes, this ugly jumper from the three from way with six seconds on the clock, It's like, you know, it's like a high school kid coming off the bench, and he's just there up the teams up 50 and he's just going and trying to store as much air.
It's only Game three of the finals, and I think Constant said it best in the shot clock era.
54 points is the lowest scoring amount in the history of the game, and we're talking about the N B A finals class Chicago Unbelievable.
Running up the score.
And so in most finals and in most situations and anything like a demoralizing loss like that, it kind of compounded into game threat in Game three was a lot closer again for is a lot closer.
Um, but give credit to the Jazz a game Game four.
They lose. It was closer.
They battled that on Game five.
The stage is set.
Trophies in the house, Confetti is ready to go.
And the bulls just they lay an egg credit Utah.
They came out, They fought, They play heart of alone.
Had unbelievable the like 39 that game.
I mean, they they lost to me.
It came down to a Jordan losing my laid an egg.
I mean, it was competitive Bolena.
Basically, I'm saying like, you have a chance when your chairmanship at home.
And obviously everybody would have preferred winning in Chicago, as opposed to having to get on the plane and fly out of Utah.
And, uh, you know, play another game and Utah at that altitude and stuff like that.
Have a pizza, get food poisoning again.
Who knows what's gonna happen in Game six before it actually happened? But obviously we get the Game six and we got a great We got a great quote in that in that game from Jordan to, and it's the which one is your which you six or game Which Game five.
Game five And it was.
It was about, like the attitude of how like people treat certain big moments.
And we can say, even as a kid growing up like you're in your driveway and your clock counting down the clock and you're trying to hit a buzzer beater.
And you're always thinking about that time that you might step to that line and you gotta hit two free throws to send the game into overtime or you're gonna get the ball at the buzzer and you got the shot.
And his direct comment was, Why am I ever gonna worry about missing a shot that I haven't taken yet? And I think that's the attitude that a great player needs to have it all times, because if you're already in your own head, you've already lost.
You've already missing that shot, and he was always about the next shot, and I think that's what defined him.
That's what separated him.
And in just another moment that meets makes him to go.
Yeah, I agree, obviously again not to get back to Lake.
Obviously, everything has turned to MJ versus LeBron, but like I think that's one of the reasons why late game situation LeBron's.
He's like, scared to go to the basket.
You don't see him really driving shoots a lot of mid range and pull ups and stuff like that because I think you truly knows that free throws are his weakness.
He's nervous about it ahead of time.
He's nervous, you know, and he doesn't want to get that content.
That's go to the line in that situation.
So, um, you saw that was wrong.
It was a Celtics fan.
After a while, Rhonda did.
Rondo did not want to even go to the hoop anymore.
And Rondo can't shoot a jump shot.
So if Iran does not going to shoot the jump shot and he's not gonna go the hoop anymore, like his game basically becomes one dimensional at that point yet, so he's only assess this guy at that point.
So, uh, something in five obviously get to Game six? Um, and Game six Right off the bat.
Scotty goes up for a jam against her pre game.
You could see they were working out.
It's back. It was kind of a prior injury.
They're trying to loosen him up and what not? It goes up for a dunk.
Was it a hard donkey? Kind of, you know, hung on the rim a little bit, but pulls back and you could just see how much it affected him throughout that game.
He was laboring, Um, and you know, I said, you know, everybody is like there was a guy Jordan's never want a final without without Pippen.
And that's we did last that I was like, Oh, watch six in that game.
Yeah, but I will say this, though, Like the fact that we had a camera crew for that whole season that actually gave Scotty, in my opinion, way more credibility because as much pain as he was in, I was heading back to the locker room, getting work done just to be able to come out for those six, even just to be out there and be and even just to be out there to be a decoy, like, regardless of united paper, is hurries.
You account for him when he's on the court, and for somebody that was in that state like he was somewhat effective down the stretch, he made a couple buckets.
He made a couple offensive rebounds.
He did whatever he needed to do, and for somebody that we saw earlier in the ah, the Siri's, where we question a couple of his motives and and then back in that, that Siri's against the Knicks, not wanting to go in and knowing that Scotty was already fed up about his contract and already to sit out earlier in the season.
That kind of gave Scotty a lot more credibility in the end, knowing that, like he was willing to do whatever I needed to do at that point, because let's be really like if they if they don't get through Game six, that back injury is not getting better by Game seven, and that's another factor in Game seven.
That's anybody's game.
And that's just another factor that we talked about with that question yesterday.
The hypotheticals like if they get to Game seven knowing what you know now, you didn't really know how bad that Scottie Pippen injury was like, who knows if they're able to get through Game seven? It is a good chance I don't win that.
Utah's obviously, but all the momentum At that point, they won Game five in Game six and then you go into Game seven.
They got all the momentum, Scotty said.
It would have tooken unbelievable Michael Jordan and 45.
50 point performance for them to probably win that game, you know? So coming down the stretch of, ah, Game six, I believe it was Stockton who hits a shot and he puts Thea puts the Bulls up.
The Jazz up by three points with 41 seconds left to go in the game, and I talked about this before.
And I think this is the greatest 41 seconds that any player has ever had in the n b A.
And what really sets Michael Jordan apart? It just shows his greatness as a basketball player on both ends of the floor.
Um, you know, it kind of breaks everything down.
They obviously need a quick bucket of 41 seconds pipping inbounds it to home.
He gets the ball right away.
He attacks, you know, three guys swiping at the ball.
You get the layup on the other end, he comes down.
He knew before they were going to, uh, Malone a lot in the post there, running the player in the post.
So when Jordan's guy went to clear baseline, Jordan never stayed with this guy.
He actually turned around and belongs back.
Was to him and Jordan just a smart that he had a new Malone wasn't gonna really know he was days with.
Malone was gonna expect him to clear with this guy that he was guarded and he switched the ball and steals it from alone and come back down court.
This is the funniest thing everybody was like.
Even Dennis Rodman was like, You know, what were you thinking at that point? And he's like, Just get the hell out of the way.
He's like, there's no way Michael wasn't You know, John Paxson.
That is Shot Steve Kerr indicia that.
There's no way Michael's passing this bill.
I just need to get to get the hell out of the way.
And, of course, the shot.
Everybody remembers little pat on the butt to buy a Russell crossover, Um, shot to win the game.
And even though you know a lot of people are like, oh, the push off, its offense will fall like you can see from that reverse angle.
It actually really doesn't look like he's even gives much of any contacts.
That's a rustle in that.
It was a lot of his, Ah, momentum that was pushing him one way or what do you guys think I'm gonna be on the homer like a big Jordan fan, but actually in the reverse angle, seeing that shot looks like the contact was pretty minimal.
No, ive Bob Costas said he looked like a maitre d you know, put pulling out the flag from the bowl and and he just kind of lost his balance and could buy.
And I mean, he even said when they asked MJ about it when I have a gay, was it a push off is like, no push off and ah, I mean, the comment was like he felt like he could do either or you could go to the hoop on, um, or you could find a little separation to hit the jump shot.
So either way, Byron Russell was gonna get the business, no matter what in that situation, and I've always thought it was a push up from that back, that back view that we saw.
I definitely think that ah gave way more credibility to that finish.
And for a guy that scored 45 you needed all 17 of that.
Those points that he scored in the fourth quarter to be able to get the Bulls over that home.
And it came down to a Stockton three that almost went in.
Um, and I don't even know if that was I don't even know if that was a great thank you.
Um, you know what? You what I did was they was five point, I think 5.
2 seconds left at 5.
Like you can get a better shot if you only need to point that at one point you can get away better shot than what stock they got, you know, But I I looked into this more.
The idea of it was that the hope was that if they could get a good look quick, they had a chance to get an offensive rebound.
And if they didn't get the offense a rebound, they could still commit a fall.
They school at a time, out left, and they could still advance the ball back and still get enough shot to you to be down to or beat out three to get themselves to get chance to get into overtime or even potentially win the game if it's still a two point game.
So when I heard that, I understood it, Maura.
And like I said, I mean most of time in that Siri's John Stockton came up big.
Hit a couple of big shots for them.
Down shot big shots throughout his career.
And it's not like I'm ever gonna question the I Q.
Level of John Stockton when it comes to a basketball moment.
So, no, if, But I will question the fact of it was funny, because if we go back to the 97 Siri's, the Jazz don't even get a shot off with a chance to tie in Game six.
Byron Russell throws the ball away and it goes in and flashes forward to 98 season, and Byron Russell's throwing the ball and again as soon as the referee gives him that ball, the ball was out like it was, I'm sure, I'm sure thought about that when Curry hit the shot.
Use those didnt Pippen stolen right away like I don't even know if he wanted in the ball, the inbound, the ball after that.
But I just thought it was funny just to see his personal reaction and seeing and seeing how that the whole of events happened.
And yet both end up winning.
Ah, there, six championship and we get to see the awesome locker room footage of that situation after, which is pretty good.
And is Carl Malone the the greatest loser of all time in terms of just like going on the boss after the game and congratulate shaking his hand and everything like that? I feel bad from loan like you got.
The EVP is like but and my asthma Carballo is he's one of the greatest power for that.
I think you mean that.
I think it's like Tim Duncan.
Kevin Garnett's up there.
Barkley Malone like those four guys air like the epitome of what you want to be in a power forward.
Um, you know, it's stuff that those are the players that has the basketball fan.
You would love to see at least get that one championship.
Well, I mean, he tried.
He went to the Lakers to try to build that you did later on.
I think it was Kobe Ah, GP.
Pete is the reaction.
That gift in the championship with the heat later.
A little bit later on in 2006 but my own just never came through.
That was not Pistons Quad.
Do you think that championship matters to a guy that, like Gary Payton, knowing that he wasn't the focal point and like it doesn't mean he was getting minutes? I mean, he was playing.
I mean, he wasn't the superstar that he was anymore, but, you know, he was getting valuable minutes.
It's not your team.
Like, I'm sure a championship with Seattle would have been a lot more.
Yeah, you think, Robert, you think that Robert orders, man, that he's got seven rings? That's different.
We're talking about a whole of Famer that, like, is considered one of the one of the top 50 basketball players of all time.
In my opinion, he is, Yeah, definitely.
I mean, one of the best defensive guards of all time, you know? So I mean, yes, you could jump on a squad at the end of your career and kind of coattails somebody else into into ah into a championship ring.
But for me, like, I don't think it matters that much.
If you are the guy toe wanna be that focal point when you mean there? Especially if he was able to take down Jordan and the Bulls like that would always that would have been huge.
You would, obviously.
Would rather have that championship is being, you know, especially taken out.
Or even the bulls.
He would have loved to have that, you know, But I think you want to be the guy, but I think guys just want they just want 00 I, um they want to ring.
I mean, at the end of the career, I can understand it, like trying to find it, but I don't think he ever just goes around saying to myself like Thanks for tuning in command.
We are reading the comments on the champion.
Aamodt. Nice to hear from you.
Yeah, You know, I just don't think it matters that much.
I mean, it's nice to get a championship, but I just thought they don't matter that much to him at that point.
So yeah, that's why I agree.
I was, you know, here.
Um so, like you said, Man, we see the celebration after love, the hotel footage of him playing the piano.
And then there's I get that Zen Buddha bull**** out ahead.
He's just talking to someone from with the guys, smoking this pattern and cigar on.
And then it gets into, you know, kind of how, like, what we were talking about, Um, how we were talking about Phil Jackson for a moment.
Well, that's what I was gonna get it.
I was actually get into that gets in, the little cortical attacked, and I was gonna get about getting so like home ended.
Kind of how we kind of got that closure with Phil and everything, but you go ahead and bring your point.
What do you want to talk about? So we know fills the Zen master, right? And I got the operations that he was able to do, like in practice spring teams together.
Um, the certain things that he was able to like that that Zen thing that we always knew about him was what kept that team together.
But that guy had a fiery emotion.
Camargo, watch the last dance before you watch.
This will ruin it for you.
He had a fiery emotion in the middle of games that that I just didn't really expect.
Like he would cut it straight with you like he would come right out of you.
He would say he would say some pretty, like like through things in our huddle that I just didn't think that's the way Phil Jackson acted, you know, It was very, very direct and which is crazy that you say that because he was very direct.
But we saw with guys like we kind of skipped over this what we saw with guys like Dennis Rodman.
He had such a shot short.
Ah, long leash with him.
He let Dennis do his thing like in the middle of the finals.
You're missing practice that going to the old to go wrestle that you could get injured, you could get hurt.
You could miss games like, and he's like he's okay with it, like Dennis comes back and it's just like the team finds you, whatever it feels like.
Are you back in the lineup like, are you in there? Are you a wrestling? I was back in the day.
I don't really want, you know, you know you like then the n w o in the Wolfpack.
What? Yeah, the new World order.
Yeah, so, like once your you want your in the n w o like that's forever like, you know, I'm saying so like, that's a like ******* says, like That's above everything.
That's the only thing that matters that but that's what it was with feel like he was such a players coach.
And I think after when you have that championship DNA and that formula, and you know what works.
I mean, we start early out with the Vegas trip.
You know, he knew that he was always gonna get 110% out a dentist on the court at all times anyway, so you kind of had blood.
Dennis be Dennis.
And I think it's a peculiar time to make that trip into the into the wrestling forum and do all that.
But you know what? You think it's just another dentist Rodman moment that, you know, you just kind of chalk up and be like, Yeah, that is so Dennis.
But that's how you're gonna get the best side.
And it's just to let him let off.
Steve? Yep, absolutely so.
you can get into what you're talking.
So I was gonna say, like, it's glad.
Like we had talked about.
Like, we were excited to see, like, you know, the closure and kind of how everything ended.
And, you know, you they just leave or deserve meetings with teams and players and owners of coaches and owners.
And how did it all go down? And it comes to find out that Reinsdorf actually called fill It offered him a one year contract to stay.
Um, and he actually turned it all down.
Um, he said that she learned the right, even though, you know, Cross had said earlier that you know, 82.
No, you don't coming back, You know, all that that stuff but runs off.
Said he had earned the Yeah, I know. You're not a big, you know.
You're just We're going to disagree on this ending.
But, you know, you got into it and feels they didn't want to come back, and then it goes into Ah, you know, Michael saying that he never had a meeting with Reinsdorf at that time.
They never got together to explain why it was actually breaking up, and they actually showed him the footage of Reinsdorf for the first time, saying like what was happening? And Ryan's off said.
The reason it really all broke up was contracts.
People's value in the market.
They weren't gonna get, you know what? The Bulls.
Pippen was obviously requiring tons of money.
Dennis was going to get more on the market.
That what the Bulls are going to give him, um, curl.
All these guys, you know that Michael comes out.
He's like, Is that That's bull****, man.
He's like, If I talked to these guys, if we had a meeting, I could have got everybody to come back.
You know, Steve Kerr would've signed a one year deal.
Rodman would have signed a one year deal.
Um, you know, Michael was even on one year deals at the end of his career, you know, he was taking a one year deal.
The only guy he said it would have took convincing was was pimp.
It was pitching because obviously he was way underpaid.
They would have to restructure.
He ended up getting in his next over his next six years between Houston in Portland, he was getting 75 million, which is way more than what he made with the Bulls.
But MJ, like you said, the relationship that they had, he was he had no doubt in his mind that he could convince people to come back at all they've been through for the last used trip is not gonna be selling a chance to go for number seven.
You know, that's how Michael really felt.
So I think that caught him by surprise.
You know what was said by Ryan store? I mean, we can we can argue about this all day.
When Michael came back in the league, he was on one year deals and he was making flying.
Appreciate that, brother.
He was making $30 million a year per season at that point.
Oh, so we can get into the financial aspects of it.
But Kerr was only making $1.
7 million a year on his deal.
So, like re signing Steve Kerr would not have been a big deal.
The dentist Rahman thing when a minute ago, the Scottie Pippen was the Onley riel factor that probably would have came down into it.
But what we disagreed on I don't think we disagreed on it, but obviously everybody knew that management was the big factor and why this team wasn't able to move on into a 99 season.
But we painted Jerry Krause.
Is that ultimate bill in early on in the stock? But what I figured out by the end of it was the ultimate villain was just as I always thought it should be.
It was the owner.
It's Gerry Ryan store.
It's the guy that is the one that can pull that switch at any time, because just remember, like Jerry Cross works for Brian Store.
So he has to do what he wants to do.
And it p financially didn't want to pay these players to come back or didn't want to do anything like that.
And I know watching baseball as, uh, he's a Chicago White Sox owner and he has always been a big issue with that organization.
Is he's not willing to pay players in that sport, either.
Right start was willing to cash it in, and if Kraus had, Krause was told that he needs to be able to make thes thes moves.
He's got to think about his career 45 years down the line past these guys.
So if he's not gonna get the come on, man, like if if you have, if you're the G m off the Chicago Bulls, like you have the easiest job in the world.
If you're owners willing to pay the players, you can keep those guys going for as long as you want to do.
Like he doesn't need to separate them.
It seemed like he was going behind closed doors and he was getting meetings were employed and one out both.
Just remember like, that's what happened to Doug Collins when they forced him out.
Beginning to bring Phil Collins are bringing Phil Jackson bring Phil Jackson into like this is the way that it went.
It was It was a business decision and Kraus with one, a dead man, that we were just kicking.
Why, while like he was done and he was just falling direct orders.
And I think Jerry Krause is Onley floor was he just wanted some respects like it got his banner that says it, but he got his banners hanging in the United Center.
He doesn't get raises like he's never going to get anything besides just credit.
And that's always that's all he truly was.
Ah, his issue was like You can say that management was a big deal.
But at the end of the day of Ryan, Start wanted those guys back.
Crossword gave them one year contracts no matter what.
That's not his decision to say like, Yeah, Jerry, you're wrong.
Like, I think you should do it this way like he was just following their daughters.
So I do agree with, like, you know, like Way talked about this earlier before the show.
It's kind of like an agreeing to certain expects that I disagree with, Like I do agree that cross at the beginning of the do***entary, it made him look like literacy, and it made him look like the bad guy into the spaceship movie.
He was the guy on more on Mountain hit on.
I mean, um, absolutely.
You look exactly like like we said, there's no doubt in my mind that that is a mirror image of him.
That's who they branded that character off was Jerry Krause.
They move it right after him, but he looked like a complete ******* and right at the beginning of the do***entary, literally from Episode one.
It was Krauts, right off the rip, Right off the get go.
Since you know, 80 to know Phil Jackson, we'll never bring in your back if you go 82 all this stuff.
I went on the and through up until last night.
You look terrible.
And I think last night kind of showed that Reinsdorf had a huge part of do and actually make cross with a little bit better.
Now what I had disagreed with was what I had disagreed with you with was that Kraus is making decisions on his own as well.
Like he really had a personal vendetta out against Phil Jackson.
You know, like I said, you had mentioned the Tim Floyd thing like the whole team gets invited toe across his daughter's wedding, including Tim Floyd.
But still Jackson does.
Still, Jackson, at the parade in 98 says, Hey, we really want to thank cross report this plans on hold, and I get rid of us a year earlier so that we could come back and attempt to do this thing, and obviously he's getting booed.
So you know him and Phil had a lot of animosity towards each other, that they didn't like each other.
Um, obviously, it wasn't that way at the beginning.
Crosses the guy who brought show on over the years last time went by and crossed in to get his respect or what he deserved it.
It's credit him misspells relationship.
And a part of that is probably why Phil never took the one year deal that runs off.
Offered him was because he didn't want to work for Krause.
You know, it wasn't that he didn't wanna have a rebuild like the first of all.
Those players were never going to get a one year contract.
The idea, though, was they were going to get rid of Phil Jackson.
A few still, but wants to be a coach.
But Phil didn't want to coach a loser. He wanted to.
You want to take a couple of years often get I think, eventually the Lakers job.
It's crazy that he misses one year.
He misses the lockout season and then he just wants three championships in a row.
I mean, going Michael being shot, but way see in this day and age like Coach GM relationships are what is important to the organizations that make them going.
We see what the Celtics all the time, like Danny Ainge is only one a one championship in the last 15 years.
But yet he's so revered around here and always really done besides bringing the big three here and then getting and then tree raping.
Ah, the Mass like he really hasn't really done anything crazy.
I mean, what gives them a lot of rope financially to be able to do it? Used to dio, he's able to go out there and and scout.
He's got a great relationship with Brad.
You know that their championship organization.
But they haven't produced a championship since, 08 So and that relationship is way better.
And I think that's kind of like where Krause was.
Like while Phil was the architect of what made the Bulls great, like Krauss was the one that had to bring everybody together where contracts he had to go out and get Tony Ku coach.
They had to convince Scotty early on to take that terrible deal because, like we talked about, like if they don't get that terrible deal from Scotty.
They're not able to have the roster flexibility to be able to add those pieces later on to those rosters.
If you turn around, you have to pay Scotty what he's owed like that Wrong.
Those runs air a lot harder because you're not able to bring in those.
Certain veterans, like Rodman occur to be able to make the teamwork Ron Harper, you know, so I think from a standpoint like we hate that we hated Jerry Krause.
But at the end of the day, like Guy produced six championships, it's hard not to argue that he's not one of the best PM, if not the best GM in MBA history.
Yeah, I completely agree with that.
So think about that.
So a guy that turns around and wants just some credit and we're sitting here just crediting in greenpoint line organization, bringing that organization toe down like we're now talking about him being in that late of being a top GM of all time.
So I think when I listen to told the producer early on and he was like, What's that? We didn't want to smother Jerry Krause.
And what people thought we actually wanted to bring more life toe, actually, him not being what people always thought he was.
And I thought that at the end was finally what we saw when Ryan star because Jordan never knew anything about that.
They didn't want any conversation to know why that those contracts were never drawn off or why they didn't continue on.
And I think that hit him.
I think knowing that Jeri Ryan stop was the one that ultimately decided that he just didn't want to do it, he wanted to cash.
You know what he had already earned from that? Those Bulls teams, Because, I think start Stern said it best, right? Like with Michael Jordan in 92 the MBA was in 80 countries.
By that 98 season, the MBA was in 235 countries that actually, yeah, so is a global icon is the biggest reasons.
So the Bulls, the Bulls were on international success.
We're not even talking about the United States.
We're talking about a global success.
So the amount of money that organization was raking in is just bananas.
Yeah, and I guess we don't like I don't disagree on everything you're saying like My thing is, I don't not cross his ability to get players like when they got rid of Horace Grant and you knew they needed that rebounder what they do.
They went out when they got Dennis Rodman, arguably the best rebounder in the game, across his ability to bring in talent and acquire talent with seconds or not.
He did a great job. Unbelievable for that.
But my only that gets going.
I just read with this.
Just think that he's he's Rand's office, little puppet, and doing whatever he says.
It's just not every year.
That's every GM like you are working for the owner.
Yeah, you gotta work for him.
But he's also gonna is also gonna be able to make decisions on his own that GM is have to make executive decisions on their own and just be like your owner has to trust you to make those decisions where you don't have to go to him to vacate Mr Ryan's off.
Do you mind if I do this? Can I trade this guy? You okay? If I do this like this this times, Where you gonna trust your GM to just go and make the right move.
And he did that.
You didn't really good.
He did that for exactly.
I agreed with that, and I agree with that.
I think that people will get rid of players and stuff like that, get rid of players.
And this thing with Phil Jackson.
But he didn't want to bring Phil back was not just Ryan's off. That was Crouse's.
Well, you know what I mean.
Your your point of view is you're saying it's just like crosses Ryan's Ryan's those public, just like you're gonna do what I say.
You know, you don't know for a fact that Ryan Stork didn't want it Phil back to because the only time he ever spoke about a contract was after that 98 season, when he was well, you don't know that he didn't want him back.
You don't know if he did or he didn't like.
That's like hypotheticals again, right? Like we don't know, just say in like Odds are, though, like the ownership is the one that pulls the ultimate strings because they are the ones that write the checks.
If you're if you're able to like like I said like you and I.
I'm agreeing with that.
Like not saying that That's not true.
There's no way Jerry Krause wants to make his job harder by getting rid of the best NBA coach of all time.
And dismantling the best team of all time like that just doesn't make any sense unless the owners are not allowing you to pay the people that the proper money.
And you know that you don't There's any little part across that.
His ego was so big and that he wanted credit that he could.
He thought he could actually rebuild that team into a contender.
Do you look at that guy.
We talked about it earlier. He's not handsome.
No one liked him.
I made, like so out of physical, take out his physical parents.
Just him is a pure basketball mind.
And how great we're even giving him props.
Man, We're saying he's great at acquiring town, making resilience of dollars mark.
Why? Why do you feel like you want to make yourself have a hard job if it's not necessary? It doesn't make any sense like nobody wants.
It's like the Bill Bellatrix thing right now with the Patriots, like in my heart.
Do I choose him? He's gonna be able to put off the organization back together after losing Gronk and Brady like you don't think that there's any part across that saw that 98 or 97 98 finals and saw how close, Um, as faras games and some of those games were.
You know how there were one shot away from going to a game 7 98 You don't think he thought, like, possibly this? You must falling apart.
And he was confident what he could do is the GM to rebuild, and he wanted to take on that challenge.
You don't think that's that's possible? That Idol, that team that we talked? Not at all.
You don't think that you don't get together for a 99 season.
That team probably ones another and be a championship.
That's what do you mean that stuff? You mean you want to make an argument about them winning, possibly eat road? The yesterday and 99 Steel.
So they were an older team at that point, right? There were older team At that point they're playing.
It was a lockout season their plane, which would give them with only wouldn't have.
No, it wouldn't have wood.
It's classic about their You're playing games and more.
Listen, they're older team.
It's less games, but you're playing more games in a shorter amount of time.
They played 50 games in three months.
You are wrapped it all in and then playoffs.
You didn't have as much rest between playoffs, Mark all you had to do.
They didn't care about the one seat.
At that point, all they had to do is make the playoffs.
It didn't really matter where. Mark.
We're talking about ah, Knicks team in 99 that finishes and eat.
See, that went to the finals. That was trash.
Dude, I agree with that.
I was just saying, You don't you don't think that Chicago team could be that Knicks team that made it.
I do think they could have.
I think they could have won ideal argument, but I don't think it's.
I don't think it's as set in stone as everybody thinks it is.
It's harder for an older team with playing so many games and so little time.
You don't think it's hard.
Even playoffs you're playing every other night they played that year.
They played a game every other night.
They have rest days like they did, but doesn't matter.
You're playing 32 less games in that season.
So like whether or not you're Pilon, there was games on, like I think that we just you're playing every other night.
Do you turn on the TV about Jordan being able to overcome every obstacle that was in his way? So my thing is like, Jordan would have been very, very prepared to make sure that his body was ready for that stretch.
And not only that, and I agree that I said, I think your way.
But I'm just trying to make the point that it's not set in stone.
It's It would have been ordered for them to win if that next team, the eight seed made it to the finals that year.
Looking on the Knicks team ended up making it to the finals.
They beat the Pacers, were they beat the Pacers right like that.
You saw that the Pacers did the year before them in the game that they give you the pieces would have been able to give the Bulls run for the money that year? Probably exactly.
So that's what I'm saying.
Like anything gonna happen.
That's the ****ing game and the idea.
It went to a Game seven and the Bulls are losing its seven minutes left in the game by double digits. Crazy.
But it's just crazy to me that you didn't want to throw hypotheticals out there.
And I'm just saying that it's hard to bet against the Bulls in the 99th season that that they warning made it to another Finals like That's just crazy to me.
I think they would have.
I just I think they would have.
Dude, I'm saying I think they would have.
I'm just saying I don't think it's like like definitely setting.
So there was obstacles that they had to go through.
Okay, There's always gonna be obstacles, but everything that we sore in this do***entary that says that when there was an obstacle in their way, they figured it out.
And are you kidding me? You're taking like a completely different stance is exactly what I said about 94 95 about them winning a championship, and you're like, you know, because we're doing.
We're doing a continuance of what we know from that 90 team.
That 90 team was unbelievable team, and it was the 93 team in 98 that Bulls team faced more adversity than any other Bulls team that they had to go through in any championship run.
That's a fact, right? I agree.
Yeah, and they you never saving everything yet.
And they persevered, right? But they would have had to deal with.
They would have to deal with all that same **** the following season.
And, in my opinion, like that Spurs team in 99 was not as good as those jazz teams in the prior season.
So to me, I don't think that that would have been a tough Siris for them.
I don't know, man.
That's that's who they had.
They had nobody that could have could have played defense on that Robinson or Duncan.
OK, but who would? I wouldn't have had an answer for those guys, Michael.
That would have been no answer for Jordan.
I agree, or Pickman, You know, if you can.
If you was fully healthy way that you love hypotheticals, let's do it's what it is.
But at the end of the day, we will never know.
I mean, I'm the biggest.
You mean you don't want the biggest Georgia fans there is.
But I would have loved to see him come back for another year.
I would love to see him have a chance at it.
I just don't think it's set in stone that they would have won.
I think it was more set in stone that if he stayed, that would have won in 94 as opposed to 99.
I like the ending, though.
I liked how like they did the whole thing where they did a barn fire and they all said something nice about another and they did a combined moment, You know that.
That was very Phil Jackson esque.
You know it up, you know? So I thought I thought it was like I said, the do***entary was amazing.
I mean, this has been a great This has been a great ride, and the one thing I did say was that fans, right now, man handed me my lunch and I will say about it is that they couldn't spread this out for 10 weeks, right? like two episodes.
I'm kind of sad that it's over, because it was What were you saying? What were you saying about? I never heard it That you were saying there might be a episode 11.
You just busting balls.
Where did you hear that? No, I mean what? Oh, so now you want my sources? Because I just want to know.
I was told I just said who said Is there going to be an episode 11? Because, I mean, I would love love to see that. Okay.
So Ah, it was the rich.
It was, I believe, was the Dan Patrick Show.
The director went on, and they said, You have.
How much more footage do you have that you weren't able, but And he said that he had at least 80 to 90 more hours of footage that they did not include in any of stock series and that they said that, like, what else are we doing right now? You know, if there's time to put something together for an episode 11 like maybe some like great stories that are great interviews, you know, maybe things that they didn't were able to get through because, like I said that the flow was great and they even had Spike Lee on first take today.
And he was like talking about how blown away he was by the do***entary.
Spike Lee wanted that do***entary.
He was one of the directors to pitch, and they didn't go with it and would Spike Lee like he said it best.
He's like and this is and this is from a director.
He's like, If you want to be the best, you can't be friends with everybody.
You can't be the most polite person in the room And that one resonated with me as a director because I'm sure I've been on a set and everyone thought I was a Qu Gasol, you know? But my idea is like I'm trying to produce the best film at all times and like watching this do***entary, knowing Michael Jordan, the person, um, that that was exactly what you need to do to be great, like you can't you have to be ruthless.
And he did it for all the right reasons.
And I think that the credibility of the persona of what he is, it was it was awesome.
It was just It was a great do***entary, and it couldn't have come in with all the time.
It was awesome. Yeah, it was fantastic.
And I know we thought about this.
Really? I think they showed the previous miss like, over, like, 16 months ago.
We knew this was coming for a while.
Um, but I wish they I kind of wish they did Maybe do an episode every Sunday, you know, And they kind of spread this out a little.
Only one episode one of the least do before to what do we have to look for students in the season is they're making strides, man.
The NBA's coming back.
Let's just get ready.
July 1st July 1st. Mark my words.
You heard it on Who created man? July 1st July sort the sources of talking, man.
So So you're going to see what happens, man.
It was a great do***entary of it.
Like it's a happy it came out when it did, because it gave us something to do during this time of quarantine, where we're all just sitting inside, not doing much.
So, um, it was great for for the sports world to kind of get together for five weeks to and have something to kind of talk about and being be excited over.
They actually pulled today where they were like break.
Obviously, we'll go into LeBron MJ thing.
What each person did great and everybody just more with LeBron.
What? I mean, Michael, one every single one of Jordan's not a better passer than LeBron.
I do agree on that, but I don't think like it's Michael.
Jordan wanted to lead the league in assists.
Let's not get that twisted.
Michael was great at doing what he did at scoring the basketball.
That was his greatest asset.
But you seem like Jordan play go.
Do you think that? Don't you think LeBron could lead the league in scoring if you really wanted to? Yeah, it goes, but I mean, it goes both ways. I agree.
That's my point like that.
Like people King like compare apples to oranges.
But like if each of these players wanted to foot flop and do these other things and be that certain kind of player, that's a great bull. Brodhead.
It averaged 35 a night. If you really, really wanted.
Yes, I agree that we have six or seven assists, but that's not what he's about.
But you see, gave you even see highlights of Andrey throwing.
No look passes around the back, just dropping dimes.
Perfect passes on everybody's sicko.
Michael can't pass.
Like Why? Because he didn't because he didn't average 10 assists a game.
You can't pass like as a basketball player.
He could pass the ball.
He was a good passer, you know.
I'm saying they're just looking at.
That's why saying, Hey, heating, average double digit assists.
So he's obviously not as good as as good as LeBron.
So what was your favorite take away from the whole? Siri's my very take away from the whole Siri's.
Um, I just honestly loved how it just brought this.
I have been one of the biggest Jordan backers there is.
I just I just love how it brought Jordan back, kind of into the into the limelight of his of his playing days.
Um, because a lot of people, obviously younger people, not our generation, but who did grow.
But Michael obviously probably never saw him play other than a YouTube video.
Um, so they got to actually see what it was like, how his competitive side was, how he treated, you know, his teammates, how he made them work just as hard as he did his competitive edge.
You know, even the younger generation you're seeing now is flip flopping.
I've heard so many people that are just LeBron guys living in the moment that have completely flipped a bit like Jordan's my go down and he's he's the guy and they love his competitive edge and that fire that he has, that he brings toe basketball every day to practice the games because that's something you don't see any more are in the n b A with how everybody's buddy, buddy and, you know, patting each other on the ass and and you know all this stuff before games and tweeting at each other, and it's just you don't have those rivalries anymore.
I think my favorite.
What about your man with you? I think it was that you had the greatest player of all time and obviously one of the more closed door athletes like I can ever remember.
I told this story his way.
You know, we got raw, uncut Michael Jordan to a tee We got swear words on ESPN, like, you know, we've got we got or we got interviews from players that did that weren't part of puff pieces like they gave their honest feelings.
We heard everybody, and I always said it like my favorite part was I could just watch clips of Michael Jordan getting handed the iPad of seeing other people respond to what? What questions? They were being asked just to see his reactions.
You know, like so I just felt like only one guy can tell the story.
And I thought that it was perfect because we always hurdle that time that they were sitting on this footage and he didn't want to release it and and he didn't know how people would perceive him as a bad guy.
And I don't think he was perceived as a bad guy at all.
I know that's the craziest thing is like I like he's he came out when he was like, I think people are going to change the way they feel about me, and they're gonna think I'm an ******* and I don't think the do***ent he made me look like an ******* at all.
I think It actually looked worse.
I think it was a lot. I think it was a learning moment.
I think people like that are watching from the younger generation, can grow from that, especially athletes.
I think athletes can watch that and understand that if you want to be great at something, you need to dedicate everything everyone, every part of your life, to it like that.
And that's what Jordan did like.
It didn't matter.
We talked about politics earlier on like he didn't want any part of that.
And we see so many athletes these days getting involved in things that they have no idea what they're talking about or why there why they're getting involved in those stances that is trying.
Jordan was involved in his craft.
He worked on his craft and that's all that mattered to him.
And to hear him talk about it and and do it his way, it was.
It was worth it.
And I think that's why this do***entary worked so well.
They were able to corner him on questions that you didn't feel like that they would be comfortable corner him on about his father and the gambling and he didn't.
He gave you honest answers, and that's all you could ask for out of the do***entary.
And I feel like I hope there's the Patriots won 20 years down the line.
I open the live to see and I opened help to say it's cool.
You just give me all these other dynasties, too.
Like I would love to see a do***entary on the Lakers early two thousands Lakers, um, on the Heat team, the LeBron D.
Wade Boschee Those first few years, they made it to four finals in a row like that would have been.
You know what happened after the Dallas series with LeBron like, there's gonna be a liberal do***ented.
We know that LeBron's good being in space.
Jimmy's being in movies.
He's gonna something's gonna go down where something's gonna happen.
So, uh, we'll see.
Like we said, Man, it was great.
I was sad to see it go, but we're looking forward to hopefully some more basketball coming soon with the NBC's and possibly resuming nothing but good news on that front.
So you're interrupted.
Subcommittee recovered everything.
Yeah, I'm ready to start gambling again, so let's get this basketball season back. Okay.
Thank Scott for tuning in.
May appreciate everybody on the livestream that comments it and interacted with us.
Really appreciate that for all updates with the With the Hoop Dreams Podcast followed myself on Twitter at Hoop Dreams on the Score MBI and follow Steve.
He's That s Lewis 5656 And we'll be back with another episode next week for you guys, Peace.