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It's a rainy Thursday.
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We're talking about some old basketball beefs, claims brought to the forefront because there's no new basketball to have to dig into.
So I feel like this has been an interesting time for basketball, cause it's just been like an airing of grievances, Period.
This is like the Festivus of basketball here because, um, everyone's just coming out of the woodwork with with grievances.
This is not really truly agreements.
This is Chauncey Billups, Um, claiming that Lakers should have swept the Pistons in 2004 in the n b. A finals.
Um Ah, humble claim, to be honest.
Well, kind of a humble brag, right that they were David a glass.
But so here I am today to dig in deep, go into the ****ytics of is What were the Detroit Pistons, the 2004 Detroit Pistons? Truly underrated were.
I mean, the Lakers were definitely over that period.
But like, you know, I think that there's, Ah, there's some interesting stuff here and in just moreover, just going into that Siris in deep detail and unpacking, Um, all the finer details here.
So first of all, let's just look at the claims.
Let's just look at the claims in the article, Um, so there are fewer bigger upset.
So this is first of all, shut up to Triple A Palo Sankoh, um, for the right up here, but basically the clean that Chauncey makes.
And he did this on the bleacher report thing stream.
If you look at the names on the back of the jerseys, yeah, they should have swept us, he said.
On ESPN is hoops streams.
They really should have styles make fights.
And our style against theirs was superior even in the regular season.
When we played them.
I was happy because I felt like there was no way the Lakers could beat us, he said, Um, and so yes, So, basically, this is interesting because Um, well, that was a I would say that like one of the main examples of underdog beating the Goliath team.
Um, and then we took five games.
A gentleman sweep if he will flip the tables on him.
So, basically, just wanted to go to some central claims.
Mean question in the 2004 n B A Finals.
Did the better team lose? Well, deep thoughts.
Um, first of all, let's go into the first claim.
The Detroit Pistons and bad are not good.
Nothing skid there.
So we have to go into that first claim.
So, first of all, the Detroit Pistons had been playing competitive basketball for years.
Up to that point, um, let's just go and do a quick, quick overview of what they had been doing.
And by the way, guys, this is a live stream **** for calves.
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If you have cleans, you want to make, um, good of the franchise index here.
So, for my for my money, I would say that the it's hard to make the claim that the Detroit Pistons were like as much of an underdog is people I had thought, because let's let's just quickly look at, um, these these Eastern Conference finals appearances.
Okay, Look at these.
Look at these three in a row Eastern Conference finals.
So they had been pressing up.
Well, this is again.
So we're going back in 1 4000 to 2000 to 2003.
Those these conference finals, they go back to the Eastern Conference finals multiple times this quit of, like, prestigious little like round of records.
Fattal's, um, eso.
Anyway, so the idea that they just sort of, like came out of nowhere out of the woodwork is not true.
Also, this is interesting, too.
If you've been watching the last dance, um, strong recommend.
By the way, if you haven't been doing it, um, you'll note that there is a sort of, uh, a pattern in professional basketball at the highest levels where, um, right before your ascendance to championship prestige, there might be a coach that you have to part with.
Um, leading up to that.
In this case, Larry Brown comes out swinging right after they, uh, they part ways with Rick Carlisle here after the 2003 lost to your New Jersey Nets.
Um, also keeping in mind that there is going to be a fair amount of bias.
And but hurt baked into this as a Nets guy.
I covered the nets.
Um, so there's plenty of that to go around.
Um, so anyways, the that is an interesting sort of like data point, right? Obviously, like they, the Detroit Pistons were by no means not around and doing interesting things.
I was digging into a little bit of the actual, um, like the playoff serious here.
And so if you've watched a little bit of this Siri's, I'll note that one of the claims that Chauncey Billups makes us that this styles are very different.
You'll know that this is an incredibly true thing, and you can almost see sort of the cresting of the prominence of the triangle offense versus ah, sort of more modern motion offense that the that the Pistons air using.
But one of the things that really likes pops out off the page is you'll note that they are trying pretty hard to get Gary Payton and Carl Malone involved.
And look at these numbers in this series.
Look at these numbers here.
Gary Payton in over 60 minutes combined.
Together, they're averaging combined nine points, 9.2 points.
Nine for 28 8 for 24 on the Siri's.
Uh, Gary paying going for two for 10 from the three point line.
Um, and they tried to be really tried to work them in there, playing in 33 31 minutes.
Not keeping in mind.
This is Gary Payton and Karl.
Very interesting year in their careers.
Um, you know, up to this point, um, they, you know, have been basically like Costa is certainly one of those things where you, um, maybe add too much too soon.
Um, I'm wondering if there's been other, like, sort of great examples of just sort of combustible e big name two teams that just kind of like a true super team that never worked out.
I would say honestly, like the other version of that is that Steve Nash, Dwight Howard Lakers a few a few years later where just the sheer name power is not enough to propel them past, like sum of their parts effectively.
So, anyways, shut up in the chat.
If anyone has any, like, meeting full insights into the Gary Payton Karl Malone period of time, I remember it being, of course, incredibly Rocky, um, with Shack and Carl Malone specifically, um, but so if you actually going back and watched any of these any of these games when I would say of the other interesting things just how much of your boy Medvedenko gets early? Look, so this is this is not going to be, um, indicative of just like so, his six for 17 year.
Um, it looks more like six for 117 3 shots of everyday Gonna take.
First of all, he doesn't all in the 1st 5 possessions of each game.
Some of whatever Phil Jackson is intending to do is to like, I guess, get them to bite on the idea that the Medvedenko, a mid range jumper, is going to be a huge linchpin of the Lakers offense.
Um, a strange thing that goes away.
It invariably by, you know, the six possession of every game.
But such an interesting thing todo Um, yeah.
So, anyways, um, back to the major, like claim, um, styles make fights in our style against theirs was superior even in the regular season.
We played them? Um, yeah.
I mean, so I guess this this to me, signals like one of the beginning.
This is sort of the transitional period right here.
This is This is the primera like between 2002 I would say 2009 people are just beginning to sort of have the formulation of true motion offense is and what it looks like to actually space and pace now, pistons, I would not say are like a prototypical space and paste team.
But they are, um, there a precursor to that kind of basketball, and so far as e.
They did take a lot of mid range jumpers.
Um, but there was so much motion to get to those spots.
A lot of ways is actually kind of like an old school Princeton offense.
Um, but I mean, incorporating Chauncey Billups is games just very like, naturally rangy, kind of just just began to spread it, whereas, I mean, I cannot overstate like, I really do think people should watch the syriza's like close to examine it.
Because, um, you'll find that the way that the Lakers are playing here that looks as as archaic as you'll ever seen it.
It may as well be George Mike and air basketball.
I mean, we're dumping it over and over again to shack and caramel in, which is, like, that's that's been that's been effective in the past.
Um, and that makes a lot of sense.
And check had a statistically pretty, pretty big Siri's here, Um, as we can see by his 26 10 stat line here on some pretty dank shooting percentages.
So, really, he's a lot of what's going right for him.
Is that but again, like they got they lost in five games.
And so it goes to this thing where this is sort of the the seeds of ****ytics based basketball, where yeah, you can shoot 63% and you can average a lot of points.
And this could be, um, those could be like super meaningful statistics.
But the difference is if you're shooting a bunch of threes, right, if you're shooting and making tons of three pointers like, let's see that there.
This is just I mean, I'm working through this live, so I hope this is correct.
But my hunch is that they the Pistons took a bunch more threes.
Let's say 66 attempts Teoh 89 e.
But the percentages are are wildly different.
Um, so I'll stick my claim to that.
Um, de Vaux, Jr.
Thanks for joining this broadcast, buddy.
Um, good to see you.
What that means joining the broadcast.
Cool, new feature.
Anyways, thanks for happen on, buddy.
Whatever it means, don't feel free to chirp away in the chat to everybody.
This is truly a live stream.
So, um, so we're going for it, But anyways, yeah, so, anyways, so that this was begging the Detroit Pistons, not ranging so far as they take a bunch of threes.
Fair, but ranging so far.
There's emotional offense that leads to a bunch of deeper shots because their interior presence is, of course, you know, weird.
Right? So Ben Wallace, his offense is effectively non existent.
Um, although we'll see this for Ben Wallace for Ben Wallace, Siri's, That's pretty good.
10 points for him.
Let's do it. Lose his career averages.
Yeah, that's pretty good.
That's right up there with this with his best years and against it against a prime shack, no less if you go back in washing this stuff, um, I watched.
I think I watched game five weeks to skidded.
Horace, um, wait, who's gonna wait? Wait, wait.
Diva, have you been watching these horse games? I have missed all of them, and I really need some ****y takes on these things.
Um, if they're good or if they're not, please do let me know.
And are they continuing to do these things? You let me know.
Um, anyways, where was he? Has, um, Diva? What? What is it like? What is the vibe like in those worst games? By the way, guys, for if you're watching on clutch points of SportsCastr, do you do click on the link bringing SportsCastr hopping the Chet? It's, uh, join your boy Devo Junior.
Shut out, E deVeau.
Were you a a Lakers or Pistons guy in your time for me personally? Also say that like, uh, I was a very anti Pistons person, but a slightly more anti Lakers person being a Nets fan at this time, imagine my but her to see that, you know, we had gone to two finals, um, back to back there and then we've been hoping on the Pistons that entire time, the reason they couldn't get out of the East was because of us.
And, um, and suddenly, there they are beating, like, mercilessly dragging around a Lakers team that had swept us two years before.
Um, imagine my trigger.
Thanks for hopping in Braudy.
We're talking, We're talking ancient basketball, some 2004 finals, the Pistons plus Lakers.
And these comments, these incredibly ****y comments from Chauncey Billups claiming that humble bragging about how he should have been swept by Kobe Bryant in his prime.
On that he and that he didn't and that he overcame the existential the death star of the Lakers and, uh, won it all.
I'm trying to think if there's anybody in the check that could give me examples of another team other than the Lakers in 2000 13 I want to say the the, um, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard Lakers.
Is there another example of a team that was sort of Led Zeppelin itself out of existence? I mean, here's Here's another thing like we're going to say that the Lakers didn't have incredible season there and that they lost.
That was like a big embarrassment.
But they didn't get to the finals.
I mean, they weren't a they were by no means a bad team.
They had a bad showing in the finals against a um they uniquely adapted team to beat them, I guess, in the Detroit Pistons.
But, um, it's easy to say that that, you know, like that was a joke of a team that they did.
They did make it to the finals.
Um, anyways, lots of chew on here, lots to chew on.
Um, do you trade? I'm really trying to rack my brain for another team that that I mean, honestly, eight.
To keep up bringing the nets and my home or ism is showing.
But, um, I think Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce era, uh, Brooklyn Nets may have been maybe even a better example that because they all they could do is when one second round came against the heat.
It's it's like on completely different courts, ones on the other and 7 20 yeah. Interesting.
Um, do you think you're sort of a white men can't jump argument where there's wind blowing the ball.
Three inches, I decide.
Is that the set the claim data? We're also sorry.
This is just just for everyone who's watching and understand what I'm talking about.
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Um, yeah, I was in the 2020 15 I guess Brooklyn, that's probably follows that thing.
It's interesting to to think that like that.
That is a a recurring theme that you can sort of over stack a team and it happens to be, especially when you overstep them with just kind of names.
Guys that that tend to be a little bit over the hill like I mean, how old is Gary Payton this year? Yes, So if a 35 year old Gary Payton hold on, hold on, hold on. Hell, no.
I don't know that, uh, a 35 year old Gary Payton and let's see who wants to get over under 36 on Karl Malone, 40 four year old Karl Malone, prime of his life.
Yeah, that was in that spelled doom to his, uh, his 18 year career.
That 40 Oh, his super Sam has a killing, But good to see you.
Good to have you.
Um, super Sam ****y takes whether the which would you take in a seven game series.
The playing each other versus the 2013 Lakers.
That's Lakers with with Pau Gasol, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard v Lakers with shack.
Karl Malone carry Peyton ****y takes on in the chapel is space.
It takes only well, guys.
Well, I wait for Super Sam to arrive at a probably incredible hot take.
Um, we've we've reached our or zenith of the stream.
Um, we've done our our time here.
That is the correct take.
Well, maybe. Yeah, well, I don't know.
Let's see where that 2013 Lakers did.
They have a deep playoff run. I forget.
This is that team, right? This is the Steve Blake lead.
No, Hang on from 13.
This is the Steve Nash here.
Yeah, just an average team across the board? I don't know, man.
This could be trouble.
This could be big trouble for you.
You You could be you could be average up either defense or offense, but best not to be average of both.
That's that's, I think, the real trick of it.
Yeah, but anyways, um deVeau Seaver.
Sam, Thanks for joining us again for future reference.
You see us doing these things you could help in the chat.
Um, my name is Brian.
You can ideo some podcasts and stuff for for nets world.
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