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We're here to talk about the thing that everybody's talking about the last 24 hours.
It's the Last dance, the hit hit new do***entary series about the 99 97 98 bulls.
Um, Adam, have you been watching the 1st 2 episodes? And if so, but did you like them star question to start, Yeah.
Uh, did you? I have been watching Brian, and, uh, it's been amazing.
Did the the idea of watching about a time frame that I was young like in a 10 to 13 range.
So I was just a pure basketball fan back then.
We can now be getting some of these things I don't think would have resonated with me when I was that age, or I would have cared about it all.
So just just being able to get some things behind the scenes stuff has been absolutely incredible.
And the first it's two episodes and I'm already blown away.
Adam, I had no idea that you were a boomer like me.
How old does that make you? You're like 33 34 man for Put it down 32 as Well, old anger, Mr Told in the game.
Um, how much do you like Jerry Krause suffer watching you? Very crest.
They really They really set the stage for him to get just a mountain of nasty to it.
Tweets and e mails like you.
They have They have not hidden that they are not fans of Jerry Cross this do***entary.
Well, it's funny, too, because I've heard from the commentary around That is, well that you know, Michael Jordan.
Obviously, he's heavily involved in this do***entary and coming out.
So I feel like and all these players and and the managers and anybody apparently rather sport everyone.
I think building that narrative is getting really easy.
I I also to give away some more commissions. I'm not that's hole.
So connecting with crowns on a on a little man's complex, you know? Is that its own? Yeah, it's definitely in the back of the mine.
You gotta push that down as best you can.
But you know, ultimately, no, it's easy to not like crafts, and I think there's a myriad of reasons, but there's some element to this where it is also not running a business right one of the first I thought it was you.
Think about Brian Cashman in the mental bait, right? This this guy runs the Yankees, and it's about running it like a business and making tough decisions and swapping pieces and moving parts.
Now has Cash never turned around on the heels of looking to go for a three peat and pulled the plug on some parts? I'd have to research it, but there is just some element of this where it's easy to dump on a guy that wants to make that move.
And there's a lot to that right.
There's a lot of age factors to this team.
There's a lot of looking ahead that following season and where the Bulls may have been facing some real issues.
Winning 1/4 in a row potential? Yeah, uh, I thought that was interesting, too, because, like so, here's the thing with the Jerry Krause situation, and specifically they spend all of the second episode like a big part of it, talking about Scottie Pippen getting dogged on this contract.
But it's one of those things where it's like, you know, a good manager.
Like he he nailed like he just nailed it like he got a great contract out of one of the best players in the N B A.
In the perfect situation for them to flourish for an obscenely long amount of time, he was getting paid 2.
5 million a year.
That's like Think about where that puts him.
That puts him like, I think I mean people in the n b A.
Now are making think the the requisite minimum is like 800,000 so, like you're just making four times the requisite minimum.
At that point for today's MBA, it's Ah, it's pretty amazing.
So but by the same token, like you can say, Oh, that's, you know Jerry Krause being like a bad guy And I think that there is, like, a fair argument to be made that that's like bad PR, and that leads you to a worse situations and general turmoil down the road.
But you also have to acknowledge that like Scottie Pippen leaves after three years or four years because he's going on into free agency and the market is just like way too expensive for Chicago toe to be be buyers at the at the time, Then you don't get those next three championships or you know who knows what happens.
What is that? That's the flip side of the coin, right? You can sit.
And by the way, ownership told Scottie Pippen when he signed the contract.
Don't you shouldn't sign it.
There's that, You know that.
I thought that Jordan was like I don't people hate me so far is that I don't hate them, But I'm just like there's a little bit of shame on you and I, and everyone has their cir***stances about just wanted to secure the eclipse and $18 million.
I'll sign the bad contract if he gets me that kind of payday.
But, you know, you make that choice.
They tell you this is not in your best interest to do this. You go ahead and do it.
If this was reversed.
Players don't typically take hometown discounts on the second big contract, right when he finally gets hit free agency and the Bulls come and say, Listen, even if they had gotten a big deal to start and that we want to have you back, you want to keep you on the roster but we're gonna need to take three million less a year than your value.
It's Scottie Pippen's going somewhere else.
Any of these names are going somewhere else.
And the one last footnote to is I didn't realize that over his career started, could made more money than Michael Jordan did honest contracts.
So it's still work out in the end for him.
But I guess you could say, Yeah, I'll see that like So it's easy to sort of jump on Jerry Krause.
But I do think that there is a he obviously has, like, you know, stepped on a few landmines just in terms of interpersonal relationships.
But there is kind of an impressive amount of foresight with, like, I'm building towards this, this crescendo of people at their peak.
And I'm willing to like, you know, go all the way with that beat, you know, create as much acrimonious as possible in the course of making a dynastic team like he was sort of unwavering in that at least to my eye.
I mean, he got lucky and like that some draft picks, panda and everything, but I mean, I'm pretty impressed by the fact that like you know, he was, like, roundly hated person and, like, arguably, justifiably so.
But also put that franchise in the position that it didn't.
And I do think that he, like, you know, bore some responsibility for making that like a really successful franchise.
100% right? You think about the turnover from the 91 to 94 in the 1st 3 peat in the 2nd 3 key, he rotates at a couple of pieces.
He ends up trading off.
You know back ups are role players to get back in a couple of started to bring incur right, even the late acquisition to bring in Rodman in the later stages of his career.
That ends up being a really effective piece to make them a dominant defensive unit as well.
To your point, that's kind of what happens right? As a GM, you don't.
And maybe that's one of the things, too.
You're never gonna get all of the credit for the championships.
It's always gonna go to the players.
You may get most of the blame if things go wrong and the right decisions aren't made, but that's kind of the nature of being the guy that isn't on the court right? That is a part of your role as a GM is to play the role of the bad guy. Now.
Unfortunately, I would make the argument, and I think a lot of franchises have chosen to do this.
Sometimes in the back, in the players careers.
If I have Jordan and I have been, I probably ride that thing into the wheels fall off, and I don't also run out of town.
A coach that I brought in to put within simultaneously tell him that quote.
You could go 82.
I know, and I'm still here.
This is still your last year, Yeah.
How how do you go into a season with that paper? Thought you can win an Emmy a championship for the third consecutive season, and I'm still gonna tell you there's no way that you make it back.
It is remarkable.
Um, there's a lot of interesting person there.
I can't help but think that there is also, like, ah, very regimented diet of like how much behind the scenes footage of Michael Jordan kind of being a like egomaniac that they like.
They're they're allowing some of it in there but also doing like because he is.
And that's sort of like his whole.
His whole deal, right? It's like Get there is you can tell it under the surface there is some, like, percolating like craziness that is, that is motivating the whole thing.
Um, and they, like, do little like the hurry, like flies in on a Corvette and just like parks it, like in the middle of nowhere.
And I was like, That is so good for me.
It's like, classic like it's, you know, you kind of two key into it, but to know, like what? Like that? What a weird thing to do, Just like if you're Michael Jordan, I just leave my car wherever.
It's such a funny thing.
The the nice gesture of him signing an autograph for that kid in the middle of the road, which he does. And it's amazing.
And then he also let me peels out.
Let's get some of the early stuff in the first episode that I found interesting because again, in my mind, I think about Michael Jordan, who, with a cigar in his mouth and it was known to have developed the gambling habit as he moves through his career.
But that early portion with these young and talking about going to try to find the players in the hotel and that you know that acknowledgement Well, you know what people did on the road like Asterix? Copious amounts with everything.
But it was such a I guess, like at the time, the combination of hearing him tell the story, seeing the way Jordan looked out of college.
I mean, he looks like a little kid.
And so the evolution just him as a person, Right, you come.
You could see him being in his thirties and maybe not necessarily engaging in all of the activities.
But he probably would have been there having a ****tail in playing cards and smoking a cigar Instead, he's like this innocent guy like, Hey, guys.
D'oh! Like so much cigar smoking, too.
I love it that, like the era of basketball players, they're just still, they're hanging in there with scars.
Very impressed by that.
I mean, like, there was also the parts for it into your point to that evolution, like you could really feel it when he gets older is like sort of openly ragging on Jerry Krause like every opportunity gets, which is which is great.
But like it is, um, like con****uously vindictive behavior like it is definitely like I am pushing people down a peg so that I am above them.
It is, Yeah, I just But by the way, no matter who you were, I mean, just imagine that kind of interaction between the GM and a superstar.
Now, I I feel like there's something that we like.
You said it's something weird about that.
All you want to take some jump shots, we'll get the ladder out.
What's your diet like? You? I mean, really, just just beating this guy up.
And even just from a personal perspective, I could never imagine calling to mind my main insured by boss and being like, That's a guy you had done your *******.
But you are, and they hand out the door like I've also never been.
Maybe at the pinnacle of my industry, as Michael Jordan has.
And maybe you need to stir berating people around you.
They say he's one.
Start parading those around you looked in your eyes what the other things that I really enjoyed.
And again, this is maybe just comparative errors.
Ah, it's too. It's twofold.
He plays that game.
Uh, please, that Radha golf with Mikhail Prior prior to going into that's to that second game of that series against the Celtics were ends up dropping.
What still holds up is a 63 1 performance.
I again can imagine two people on opposite sides of a competition getting together for a gentleman, the around a Gulf premium.
And then the other part of the team, he was just that Mikhail being a veteran by that point, I'm sure that you have to be confident, player.
You've done a lot in the MBA as well, so almost be willing Thio.
So do you like a good look, buddy? You know, maybe I'll bust your chops on the course today because the level of conference that you have and what you kind of I was a Jordan and scored 40 plus in the first game anyway.
So it's not like it's not like he all of a sudden went to some.
He went from scoring five points to 63 points, but you definitely got the guy charged up and I just again that mentality within athletics with being like, I'll say whatever I want, I'll prove it.
Prove on the court.
Yeah, I'll say this.
Do this this do***entary this as many sports do***entary's specifically basket ones have highlighted before.
Is this how important it is to grow like seven inches over the course of a summer? It seems like you sick.
That's never ever being either.
And I think, you know, I think our lives would've turned out a whole lot differently.
Adam, have we have that like that eight inch summer? You know where things just, you know, completely pivot.
We go from being like, you know, the point guard on the team on the J V team playing center.
Right is they go, they be sprung up.
He was seven inches or summer, and then he went ahead.
Retained all of those point guard skills that he had developed, right.
That's how you become.
One of the 50 brings players in NBA history that's learning all this skill set and then becoming a completely different position by time.
Yet that has to be like one of the strongest correlations.
And just like N B.
A genealogy is like if you have a pure like a six month period in which you like, grow a certain amount of height like because then you do retain that certain like you.
You start with a person who has, like, a guard's skill set, and all of a sudden you're now not a guard.
It's gotta be one of the biggest, best indicators for like, future talented, like 100%.
And then it even makes you appreciate probably somebody in today's MBA.
Like like Johannes, who has always been told I was a freak in terms of its size and everything, and he still has the ability to look like a gazelle ball in hand.
So, you know, there's nothing to tell me things I'm like.
I'm rolling through my mind on this plate number.
I also look back at the idea of Shorten off the beginning.
The draft that go back to his childhood second best basketball player in his own family with his brother gets cut from the from the sop****re back, gets a sop****re from the high school basketball team, comes into North Carolina and they're kind of like, Yeah, he's good.
Lots of work on, though.
And I will say again, that mentality that you saw when Kobe came into the league and something that was different, I think they highlighted along the way there, too, about you.
Think about LeBron James and how he had to grow in to some of this attitude and some of this dominant, you know, dominant presence on the court.
Jordan talked about, he walked in.
He was like, I'm gonna walk in there and show everybody.
I'm gonna prove that I deserve to be the leader of this team.
I'm gonna prove that we could turn the franchise around on my shoulders.
Same thing like Kobe, I feel.
And I don't know, your chicken or the egg.
Was it because he had to struggle along the way as he finally got to the n b a Or is that just ingrained in this dude? And no matter what it was, he's gonna be coming at you 1000%.
It is hard to know that it's a like specifically for Jordan.
His like athleticism just feels like you could see it every kind of stage, like just Roger.
And then like, gradually less right by the time his like he's in his like, you know, mid thirties, by like in 98 or whatever like that physique is.
It's so like, um, it is is both.
So it's like that old man and like, strength, like athleticism plus strength.
He really rounds into an amazing, like looking figure.
And when he was a kid Ah, he's just like a buddy Looks like it, more like a track and field guy like he let his body.
There's so much more lean and like, built for speed and jumping.
Um, and it is interesting that, like I feel like when, like he he looked transforms along with it.
I'm thinking of, like, other like in temporary players who have, like, as much of the like, kind of killer instinct as those two guys who have, like, maybe done less And like I'm wondering, like Jimmy Butler, where where would Jimmy Butler rank in terms of like doing more with less? Because, like when you build a Jimmy Butler was drafted 30th or something like it was much more of a project in either of those two guys and sort of force have willed himself into being at one point maybe like a top 15 player. I don't know.
You could You could make some arguments there.
Um, yeah, I'm trying to think of like, a list of like, who's who's just like the most competitive people would have done the most with that, Um, and even relative to that, too, is because we were just talking to cover.
I'm always talking with somebody about about basketball or some sport about Vince Carter and coming down the winding down his career.
And the idea of Isn't this appointment missed opportunity because over the course of his career, felt like this is a guy that rose to a level and then never quite took that little extra step that was gonna put him over the top.
And you never ended up looking his Cardinals in my mind as the guy that was going to be the sole leader of your franchise with championship aspirations.
Now is it is the next fan.
When he gets there with Jason Kidd again, it felt like Well, yeah, hair next to a guy like Jason Kidd with his court vision in his prowess, you could take the next level.
But this Carter natural skill set probably on the state level of some of these guys.
The most natural skill set I was.
And I think that's a great point because you could tell that Vince Carter fell out of bed with those skills like he like his.
The fluidity and his game was just beautiful.
And, um, the way that, like he went about scoring, was just so it like it was so unnaturally athletic, but also so, um, like the pacing of it, the timing of it was just like, Oh, that's like what a real true like basketball player looks like.
And there's a lot of like there's definitely that by the end of of, uh, early in the championship years for Michael Jordan.
But like in the beginning, you can tell that, like those hesitation moves have a weird sort of pace to them.
They're like a little bit off the beat, you know, like not quite like, just like raw athleticism translated into skillets.
Just ah, lot of athleticism, skills catching up. You can kind of feel it.
It's even when you watch those.
The highlights from college is they start to show him and that they're talking about progressing his game.
You see those little flashes, right? The baby rock reverse dunk.
It kind of looked like it was becoming his signature at the college level.
Then when you get to the n b a level, all of a sudden, it looks like it almost develops where he goes for fine.
Originally, I could Oh, not hold on, Lee.
Originally, I had this where I went up and I dumped it.
But now I can get myself in the air a little bit further from the basket.
I can see where the defense is coming and go.
You know what? Go ahead, switch over and go the other way with this and really started to get that body control.
And, like you said, just refining those skills, it's It's impressive to see the evolution of a player like that and see your point.
It's interesting to think about other players then or over their careers and meet a guy like Larry Bird, and I will fake having you know, his entire career in my mind.
But I very much feel like Larry Bird was Larry Bird Yeah, you know, his skill set was his skill set, and it wasn't like an immediate need to evolve his game because of what he came in with.
I don't remember Larry Bird at oldest son of transforming his body, and he obviously had injuries, things like that.
But that player was who he was, right? Some of these guys came in the league, had it and did it, whereas again, work ethic, maybe was the drop that major and go.
I'll keep tweaking.
I'll keep adjusting.
What's the next thing? That dude's always be? A little bit of it.
I want to say like I was pretty had never seen Scottie Pippen's footage from college before, and I was like That was really like like, I'm surprised that that I mean, I guess Amounts of president is picked fifth after this, but like that, it took people so long to get a whiff of this guy.
I mean happens to be one of those things where I grew seven inches in summer, whatever.
But in general, like, I'm glad that they sort of spend as much time as they did with Scottie Pippen, the second episode there because He seems like an incredibly sweet person.
I don't know if they're gonna, like, set that up and then undo it.
Um, I do feel like bad for him the whole time.
That was like some obvious resentment and frustration because he's like, so publicly outed as this guy was being, like, notoriously underpaid.
That's gonna be enormously frustrating to just, like, have that be part of your brand, just like I'm Not only am I am the Robin like obvious Robin to this guy's Batman.
I'm paid like it, too.
It's really yeah, interesting to the Jordan says it in do***entary.
I don't think that you can have a conversation where you mentioned my name without mentioning Scottie Pippen.
So there's clearly an affinity for any understands it.
And I showed, Ah, I'll pull this up in here in a second tier.
Refresh my mind on the stat lines.
But the other thing that I thought was interesting, too, was, though Jordan says about Pippen and going ahead and getting that surgery and ending up, putting himself out for 38 games, that he basically had a selfish on him and it goes back and connects to that idea early in Jordan's career when he says about putting him on the minutes restrictions after his injury.
He wants to be out there again.
It's a win for win games.
That's all the Jordan is thinking about.
And even to that extent, someone that he likes as much as he may be those with Pippen, he just goes.
You weren't gonna get a new contract.
I don't know what you were doing that for.
You know, You should've just gotten surgery, get ready to go with started year when I just thought was interesting.
Certainly a little honesty out of Jordan that I didn't expect.
And his it's it's so interesting to cause His philosophy is so black and white on this because, like and they talk about this like when he's he doesn't care at all about like Macro managing of a team, it is about the game that he is playing when he is playing it, and that is always the thing that he's trying to win.
It's interesting that he could say that about Scottie Pippen, and not at all like he like that.
His 18 month hiatus.
Playing baseball doesn't come to his mind like, but those are separate things.
He was playing a different game there.
Was he There wasn't a contract, this beauty and agreed to play basketball, and then he wasn't going to you.
And now he was playing.
And so now he's playing basketball, and that fits into that, like black and white philosophy of like, you know, maybe in his mind, I would say that there's like, a fair amount of gray area there, But for him, it clearly isn't it.
If I'm here, they were all doing it.
If I'm not here, then obviously go about.
Listen, we're going to the O S o the staff that I want to have up and shame on me if you look off screen here a little bit.
But in that playoff totals in six final finals run, Jordan had 3730 almost 3800 points, 2200 points for Pippen.
But here's the interesting ones. Rebounds.
7 19 908 Assists.
6 20 To 6 42 steals to 18 to 44 blocks.
91 1 11 Hip in and listen.
Obviously, Pippen is more actually going to do some of those things, but Pippen led four out of those five categories in terms of comparing.
So just the necessity of needing Pippen to be on that team with you to accomplish these things.
Keith and I hopped on earlier, talking about the top of this draft and what could have been Yeah, uh, Corinne.
And what what happened? Top of the track there.
And could Jordan have gone somewhere else potentially? Or if you took Pippen and put him somewhere else? Is Jordan still winning championships? Undoubtedly, I would say right, because just like LeBron, at some point, you're gonna find your way to get to one.
But I could see him being in a much more similar boat to LeBron of having to maybe orchestrate things and get to that and go to finals and maybe lose.
But when you get a guy like Pippen alongside of you really makes things a lot easier on both ends of the floor.
Um, well, there's gonna be so many more episodes.
I hope they devote a whole the whole 50 minutes to Luc Longley and Luc Longley Story among many others.
I'm sure we're gonna be talking about this for weeks on end, so I don't want to step on that.
Um, Adam, thank you so much for joining on this clutch points plus SportsCastr broadcast of the last dance.
Um, thanks for pleasure, Frank.
Let's do it again. Let's do it all the time.
You got it right by everybody.