portion of hashtag sports here on SportsCastr.
It's the off season is not a ton of stuff to talk about just yet.
A lot of speculation.
So instead of going this speculation route, we like to talk about the what ifs.
So we've covered what? The bills, uh, hadn't drafted J. P.
Lawson, right? No, no, no.
We had the, uh, one of the bills had beaten the Texans.
And what if the bills had drafted Patrick Mahomes? That's what it was.
What would have been the narrative off some of the team.
But it is interesting to talk about, because now we're taking a little deep dive.
I like I like doing this stuff going down memory lane and and checking out some of the history that bills and like, you know, because everyone likes to say what if, after the fact So it's interesting to see So you're you actually had a what in for me? I'm never sure which one.
Waas, though Kind of scary.
What if the Bills never signed Fred Jackson? Right.
So Fred was like a whole bread is like the quintessential Buffalo Bill.
Yes, he's the quintessential Buffalo bill.
A lot of stuff about Fred Jackson that fans just a door.
And let's talk about Christie.
Here's the deal with projects.
I think we could start this right out of the gate.
The Bills always.
We're trying to replace him as soon as they got him.
They were looking to replace him his entire time here.
And it wasn't like they signed this player.
Like all this guy's gonna take over the job.
He never did know.
It was only late in his career that he ended up actually winning the starting job on a full time basis because he was always fending off draft picks every time you think Fred was about to take over the job.
A coaching change.
New running back to my god **** it.
You know I could happen.
When did he Plato, uh, came in 06 And he played until 14.
Like, uh, came in.
06 Played until 14 in Buffalo, 15 Miss Seattle.
Okay, so 06 to 14.
I remember some bills.
Remember the bills drafting a couple running backs in that ever You there? Yeah, her view.
Marty had Marshall.
Which beast mode.
Okay, Right? No.
Maybe they just kept the honestly kept trying to replace him.
He came in with McGee.
He already here because he came in in 2006.
Right? That was that Was that big a year.
He was the change of pace back.
That trying to change? Yeah, that that was always being changed.
Yeah, well, I mean, they know they have Lynch, Spiller and Jackson at one point, uh, believe for the training.
So they got lynched the following year.
So you got luncheon in 2007? Sort of been 2009.
Let me check to see.
That's when they traded him in.
09 I was Fred Jackson, and it was kind of funny.
It is kind of funny and just the way that it was, you know, like, it's well off the top of my head.
The surface of this says this.
There is no beast quake.
If Fred's not in town.
What do you mean? Do you think that how Fred Waas at the position? He's not.
He's not Marshawn Lynch.
Let's just talk about that.
Well, you know, but you got Spiller and Jackson there, You know, ladies is gonna cost you a lot of money eventually, right, Jackson? Never gonna cost you a lot of money, right? You change of pace back A spiller.
I did the production from Jackson because we always to talk about how great of a blocking back He waas okay at the blitz.
Well, that's I mean, that's how you get.
That's how you get playing time in the NFL is you protect your quarterback, you protect your quarterback, you're gonna have playing time in the NFL.
That's period. Then we saw that this year with Devon Singletary.
The reason he was on the field so much picks up a blocker.
Really? Well, you know, he really does.
He picks up a block really well for young players.
So the fact that he was doing all of those things that maybe Lynch wasn't It's a little stuff.
Yeah, it's that little stuff. Fred Jackson.
Not here. Lynch has to stay right.
So when she's still a bill for a while? Yeah, that would be probably till now.
Well, I mean, I mean, he was still bringing his own liquor into bars, you know, I had chip a lot like Marshawn was Marshawn right, like we accept it now because it's kind of entertaining.
But at the time, Marshawn being Marshawn was seen as not the same.
Is this another one of those? The guy wasn't right for the system in Buffalo while How many systems? So I mean, but I'm talking about like me, this small town company encompassing everything you know about that we talked about Darius is Well, Gary's wasn't a guy that was gonna right.
Yeah, I've learned here.
That's it's very possible, right? You know, it's a lot of people when they get drafted by Buffalo, they don't want to be in Buffalo.
It's not like, Oh, yes, I got drafted by the Bills.
I mean, it's that it wasn't like that back then.
You're talking about a team that had just barely knocked on the door of the playoffs right on Dhe.
Then you just quote, You're just a constant six in 10 team seven and 96 in 10 7 and, like that's what that's who the Bills were.
They just they always felt like the answer was a running back, right? Go back through just the last 15 years and just last 20 years, just look at the first round running backs.
Bills have drafted.
Go back and look at every other franchise.
They all stop drafting.
First round running backs was just the Bells taking players.
Look at the coach's, though.
You had Giron have defensive Cordon.
Malarkey was an offensive guy, but he wasn't a It was a tight end guy.
Um, Murrow's office of line, then? Yep.
I'm missing a guy in there.
Well, I mean, he's like, That's why you got speller.
So he dragged Williams.
Great win, defensive guy.
So you had all these defense of guys that want to run the ball right? Hey, we're in Buffalo.
We're gonna have to run the ball eventually.
Yeah, I think I think there's an argument to be made there, right? Yeah, that Maybe they were behind the eight ball of it.
Everyone transferring quicker than the bills into a passing league.
Probably extended the drought a few more years and should have.
Yeah, but that will intertwine.
Clean back to Fred Jackson.
If he's not a bill, do you think a draft more or you get there because you have lynching Spiller, right? You can pretty much do whatever you want the wires here? Well, the bills hadn't the ownership.
From from an ownership standpoint, you hadn't really seen them wanna put investments into a running back.
So I don't think they necessarily keep Lynch, because look at it. Right.
You had, um, Travis Henry.
You drove him into the dirt, and then you said, Okay, we're good here.
You drafted? Well, it's been drafted, McGee.
He even though in Henry's on the roster. Right.
But you can't remember, can you? Out his knee gets Ohio State at the end of the season.
So he was on the shelf for the next year anyway.
So you drafted me gay? He right.
Then you let McKay he's contract lapse, and then you draft Marshawn Lynch, and then you let you get to the end of our Shawn's contract.
And what do you do? You know you have Fred Jackson here.
What do you do? You draft? Yeah.
You draft speller? Yeah, like it's it was just a constant recycling of running backs because they would drive him into the dirt spellers selling one that didn't get overused.
Truthful? You compare him to the other guys.
You look at me gave you. Look at Henry.
You look at lunch.
Right into the dirt. No.
Yeah, that's you never ran CD speller in the first half.
You only ran CJ Spiller when you're down 22nd.
That's the only time C.
Spiller you saw Carrie.
Do you think the fact that if you did not have Fred Jackson throughout those years, okay? Aye.
There's not really a stabilizing force in that locker room. Yeah, that's a good point.
Kyle on defense. Friend.
Is there a guy that does t o is in that? Yeah.
And you don't want people mentioned Theo's career? No one really talks about Buffalo even know. Very brief.
You talk about Cincinnati with Chad Johnson? Yeah.
You talk about San Francisco? It wasn't the firecracker that he was an African village.
Listen, this is we do definitely think differently here, and it was probably you don't make the playoffs, huh? He probably could.
You don't hear things about him making a stinking buff.
Please, I have I Look at it this way.
If Fred Jackson was not a buffalo girl, they would have been worse during the time that he was here.
So how does that change the way they approach the quarterback position? You would have higher picks to try and get right.
So you wouldn't have the Trent Edwards.
You wouldn't have. No offense.
The Drew Bledsoe's you wouldn't have you wouldn't have that middle lane quarterback situation.
Is the Bills trying to survive on a middling quarterback situation? They drafted J. P LA Osman.
People forget fourth quarter back off the board.
But what was the last fourth quarter back off the board? Josh Rosen, Mark Boulder marked No.
Boulder was another one drafted real late.
You know, it's you have to look at it for.
Jackson was not a Buffalo Bill.
Yes, they would have been worse during that time period.
But there needs change, and they would have had better assets to go get a quarterback.
The question is, would they write because you had Ryan Fitzpatrick.
You had replacement level players always at the quarterback position.
You know, I really would have happened.
You don't look at it.
Let me just take a stab will go into 2011.
Okay? Because that was you had Ryan Fitzpatrick speaking a random here.
I'm not even doing anything as far as that goes.
So the Buffalo Bills were picking third.
That was the year the trick.
Darius took Darius that year because they had Fitzpatrick card.
Okay, so you have a grinder in Fred Jackson.
Any of a journey? Men like Like Fitzpatrick.
Okay, let's show up the defense.
You're very 1011.
Fred was always already.
But here's the funny Cam Newton went number one von Miller went to And then it's ironic that right after Darius went e j Green Yeah, that one hurts a little bit, right? Everyone, like, wants a J your e mail.
But you look at it.
Jake Locker was the next quarterback.
Then Blaine Gabbert, then Christian Ponder.
Are you signing up for any of those? Yeah, I know, but I mean, you look at the players that came after that.
You have a j green of Julio Jones in that draft.
I mean ended and you picked areas.
Pumpernickel is 36 thing.
Um, but what would the Bills draft before him? Aaron Williams.
I don't mind the Aaron Williams.
No, but it's funny to see those players.
Yeah, Come off the board.
And maybe if the Bells were worse.
I mean, they got third overall pick.
So they're pretty bad there.
I mean, do you think they usurp Carolina? It's funny how all these things come full circle, right? We're talking about Caroline, and we got McDermott senior.
I know, right? Well, I think the whole spectrum of what it means to be a Buffalo Bill accident made it easy for new coaches to come in because there was an established culture.
And when you take a look at the personalities of the coaches you brought in, they weren't nothing.
Gaily was probably best out of all of them.
But like you had fried here through the first friend was right here.
No, I think that was my client.
That McCoy brought.
It was 2014 right? One.
So that was the year you got traded? Yeah, because you went to Seattle.
Probably one wreck 24 teams when Whaley did the trade for employ in market.
Yeah. So that would have been time.
You know, it gets me here where? Look at all the coaches that Fred Jackson went through, right, And while he was developing a culture.
The truth is that the coaches that were here weren't strong head coaches.
You know, you could talk about Marone and say, Well, Marone went on to, you know, take Jackson, go to the playoffs, Okay? We can live that life.
I'm not I'm not losing sleep over that.
I don't know about anybody else. I'm not losing.
At the time, people were like, Oh, you know, this is typical buffalo thing than the A F C champs.
You can share your winning the air, Sea champ.
Shame so conceivably you could have had in the past five years.
Um, you could have had, uh, Marone go to the Super Bowl.
You Mahone is going to the Super Bowl.
We could have drafted.
We're gonna I don't even want to go down that road.
No, we're gonna We're gonna revisit that one more time.
Because how many players could have been drafted in opposite? You Don't know who the chiefs who takes.
That's a tough one.
Yeah, that's why that's why trade.
I was getting so snappy on Twitter.
Like so many ungrateful fans, he's talked about the fact that everybody scream We should have just drafted the homes, and if you have the homes that you don't get trained, there's so many other things that happened because of that.
But that's why this water segments so cool because we can't talk about, you know, everything that would have happened.
So either way, Fred Jackson here not C.
Spiller is still a bill without Fred Jackson here.
CJ Storage Place more and he's from Clemson.
So it's her, right? Yeah, right.
But the to see the progression of the bills.
Because maybe if you didn't have such a stabilizing force on that offense, more attention would have been brought over that Yes, I agree.
Hey, listen, we need to fix things here. This is ridiculous.
We can't just rely on Freddie Foot who's always bailing out.
I don't I don't see spellar picking up a blitz too much.
No, no, I agree with that.
I think that I think the C.
Spiller thing washes itself out.
But there comes a point where you need to win games so you don't give speller the opportunity to learn how to do that stuff, right? You really don't.
You gotta keep a quarterback safe because who's your next level? Replacement was a back up quarterback at that time you were on hand in.
I love that reference, though, is how I could bring him out everything I want to talk about. Fried.
Before he got to the NFL, his friend made the other fellow at the age of 26.
So the tender age of the tender age of 26 nous So, uh, he tried out.
This would have been in 2003 trying out for the Bears because he was undrafted.
Tried out for the Bears, the Broncos in the Packers.
All of them thought he was too small because he was under 100.
It was under £200 in 95.
So he goes to play indoor Thean very before 62 Yeah, exactly Right he did.
He did the little stuff on the field really well, but an exceptional athlete compared to combine.
So he was getting paid $200 a week to play indoor football.
If they won the game, he had an extra $50 right? That was for the Sioux City bandits in the indoor league.
He goes and plays, uh, national.
In 18 games, he runs for 53 scores, 53 total touchdowns in 2000 and five in the indoor.
He was CO m v p.
He scored more touchdowns in that single season than he scored his entire NFL career.
Shaaban scored 39.
Is whole NFL career then that crazy 30 rushing 906 to 15 30 hole, 30 30 rushing, rushing touchdowns? That said, Why did it seem like he was? Oh, those horrible.
That's what I mean.
Look at that number you like.
Oh, no, wait, that's fried Only scored 30 the most you ever scored one.
You take that away.
He had what seven seasons were 21 touchdown Stephen checks and that was crazy, but it was crazy.
But I think the important thing is to remember that Friday's here because he went to co college, right? What other famous bill was a co college? Lem? No idea.
Come on, you don't know this co college who is the general manager When Freddy was signed 06 Next one season is GM Brandon Go.
What? Levi Levi's Coe College.
Leaving what? Levi was a co college alum.
Friend Ji finds Fred Jackson and G and Levi was Jamet the time.
That's how Friday made this team.
I thought leave you was Cornell bread.
Well, you never Cornell grad Coe College alum.
Well, you were talking about the $200 a week did he made playing arena? Yeah.
In his career in 10 seasons NFL, He, uh he made $18 million.
So a big change.
We can't like everyone, you know when you mention it. Wow.
You're like a 30 for 30 years. I know.
Ah, football like friends.
But he ended up making over 10 years, $89.
So look for him, former D three.
But if you wasn't a bill, um, I think he was afforded the upper because **** Familiars to save us all the time.
He talked about Kurt Warner for the Rams.
You said you open the door for more people when you're not a very good football team, right? That's true.
Freddie probably wouldn't have been Freddie.
I mean, the character of the guy, I think would have been insane, but he wouldn't have had the opportunities to play out another team because no other team was really like parentally that bad as the Bills, where every year trying to rebuild, trying to read reset respect.
Freddy got his chance here because the bill weren't as good as they should be.
Well, and I think it's fair to say that Fried Jackson is similar to Marcus Murphy, right? Market.
A lot of Bills fans will know they will.
So Marcus Murphy, last season was 27 right in the news.
26 right? So a lot of people look and say, while Marcus Murphy, you know, can be nice, but he's kind of older.
So shin the bills move on.
And that's what ended up happening around here, right? And this is what happens.
Frank got a really, really, really late jump attention to the offensive side of the football.
Yeah, you know, you're nothing like they did.
Well, they put resource is there, right? But like they they drafted Spiller and people forget that Spiller was the starter in 2015 right? Even though spill it was started.
Freddie, still a 1200 yards from scrimmage.
Yeah, because eventually it's a war of attrition Exactly.
Used to figure out what's going on.
Um I mean, you had a two 1013.
That was okay, But you had all these guys that were defensive minded guys.
If not, there are guys that had a run first approach to be shamed.
Um, as invaluable as I think that that underscores the fact that two things both sides us.
Okay, number one how valuable it is to have a running back that knows how to pick up blitzes.
That's why Freddy played so much.
It's exactly the other side of this coin.
Is the bill still don't make the playoffs in his 10 year? So they weren't good, even though he was good individually at his job.
The Bills? Overall, we're not good.
And there were some heartbreaking loss.
Oh, God, For that team, there were so many games that got away from the bills and that I'm not putting on Freddie.
I'm not I didn't bring it up to say that, uh, maybe more of an onus would have been.
Well, let's look at the 2006 Bills.
2006 bills were J.
Lawson Willing was McCabe Have Toe Lee Avon's Peerless Price? Okay, so let's just look at the at the main normals.
So A Peerless Price and Lee Evans The Events.
Willis McGahee, J.
P. Loss Man. That's when Fred joins the Bills.
That sounds very familiar.
Those very small white receivers.
Okay, continue They go. Stay.
Go on seven and nine, 2007 moved to try, and Edwards and Marshawn Lynch still have jumped.
The Evans and Josh Reed are sorry.
Lee Evans. They replace periods.
Price for Josh Reed, seven and nine.
That's the problem.
You win those games, you go seven and nine and you can't get yourself a solid draft pick.
Right? 2008 They go.
So seven and nine with Trent Edwards, Marshawn Lynch, the Evans and Josh Reed.
Okay, so that has to change here for the night.
Ah, while 2009 is when **** Deron was fired and perishable took over.
Yes, So 2009 comes.
You go six and 10 with Ryan Fitzpatrick, Fred Jackson, Lee Evans and Terrell Owens.
Well, but you don't think a splash of the wide receiver corps was picking up a 30 plus year old T o.
Who's a freak. Immediately now. Charlotte.
Sure, and then in 2010 happens with Chan Gailey go for and 12 with your brain.
That's Patrick, Fred Jackson.
Follow you exactly.
Then you picked areas the following year in 2011 where you go six and 10 right? That was the year that what Notre Dame quarterback played for Carolina Clawson? Oh, God, I played for Carolina.
Now he's the reason they got noon because he played so bad, you so bad.
I remember Jimmy claws, and people are saying that he was going to be the next great one for Buffalo.
Remember that? He threw two passes, and I think Mel Kiper compared him to Montana.
Um, you know, you just you.
You're just a middling team six and 10 again all the time.
So you don't really get it.
You think over that 79 7796 and 10 for 12 6 and 10.
You think over that six year span, you would have talent.
Now, you said you didn't because, like in 2012 they get Stevie jobs Well, that think they get talent, but you're always changing over philosophies that you can't hold out of that town, right? Well, that's where the that's where the genesis of while Bill's always getting rid of great players know they go to a system that's tailor made for them, right? Well, I think this will be a good conversation tohave over on the YouTube channel because free agency's coming up.
There's a lot of players who were drafted that were drafted in a coaching staff that is no longer there.
So there's a lot of good players who might have been out of system that they're not gonna be free agent.
Is this the first SportsCastr clipping? I guess it could be.
Yeah, I think it could be.
If your sub test on YouTube, we're gonna be over there this week.
Yeah, yeah, All week.
Not today. Not today.
Thank you for joining us for a SportsCastr, so I'd have part three.
Let's just put it.
Let's put a ball on this.
So have the bills.
Never signed Fried Jackson, Do the bills extend Marshall much? You think they did? Yes.
And they don't extend right, Fitzpatrick.
Well, they would never sign.
Right? Because they would have a quarterback before that because it would have been worse.
Higher draft pick.
It would have taken a quarterback.
So no Jake locker room for some.
See? No, that's we are gonna say, Listen, we all make mistakes.
You ever You ever go back to that prom picture? No.
Like not doing it.
I felt really good that day, man.
I really thought this orange tux would work.
I wore a purple velvet jackets, my junior problem.
Do you know why? Why? Okay, I have no idea.
I was like, That's hideous, Remember? Remember when the original Jordan Elevens came out? Oh, yeah, A world problem.
They look like dress shoes.
In all fairness, the whole team or oh, God, right out of here.
You wanna put a bowl on the Freddy now? Okay.
We'll put you one more thing to say.
Well, I mean, you think they would think they would have extended, which I disagree, because the bills never extent running backs.
Well, they did, but then they were going through so many regime changes.
Coach change they might have.
If you would have been the beast that everyone thought he was gonna be.
Yeah, which I took Marshawn a little while to figure out that he was not a lateral movement guy in the NFL.
It took him a lot of cheeseburgers to figure that one out.
Like I said, maybe the culture didn't fit him, But I don't know how seals dead.
Pete Carroll doesn't care, because Carol does not care at all.
You think he puts at our old Pez dispensers and hands it out? Even care that dude does not get suspended for drugs? Better be Adderall.
He doesn't care, does not care.
See? Hold the bag.
Yeah, He's like Reggie Bush.
Hold out of this for me.
You like your Heisman? All right? Later, SportsCastr Nation.
So if I can hit, stop.