the following takes place between 8 a.
Good morning, everybody.
It is Tuesday, November 19th 2019.
And this is full press coverage.
I am Ian Glendon, and I am joined, as always.
Find Mr Mark Debate.
Mike, how are we doing today? No, the doing very well, my friend here to be on a Tuesday morning.
No better place to be.
And ah, you know, we've got always some stuff in the news to discuss, and I know we're gonna get right into it, but oh, yeah, No, Absolutely.
Including a fairly entertaining Monday night football game.
And unfortunately, um, as much as I hate to do this and as much as it was becoming such a a routine of mine, I don't know if I can play the song today.
It just It doesn't seem right after.
So yeah, it just doesn't I completely agree with you and, you know, you know, you know, we love this song.
Anyone listens to the show knows Ian and I are pretty much obsessed with that song.
But yet under the cir***stances today, I don't think it's ah, just wouldn't be prudent at this juncture, my friend.
Yeah, there was nothing super about the Chargers.
Actually, it was It was quite that dead last night.
At least offensively.
And And to be honest for both teams, I mean, I don't know which team wanted to lose this game or from the offensive side, the Chiefs or the Ah or the charges.
I'll give the edge to the charter just because Philip Rivers threw four interceptions, the final of which I knew was coming.
So I'm going to take a victory lap.
Um, it just I'm watching this game.
They get the ball there down deep in their own and near their own end zone.
And I'm just thinking like, Oh, the only way this game ends is Philip Rivers thrown an interception because that's Philip Rivers.
He will make plays to get you down the field and then make some boneheaded play which results in their team, losing and look any sort of competent quarterback play last night from the Chargers and that they win that game running away.
So very disappointed in the charges.
Very disappointed that Philip Rivers and you know it if it wasn't a shock to anyone before it.
It shouldn't be a shock now. I mean, he's done.
He's cooked in it.
Yeah, yeah, I think that Chargers fans and Rivers fans alike and looked at, you know, you talk about the body of work that he's put in.
He's put in a stellar career.
I'm not so sure that necessarily means a trip to Canton any longer.
I really don't believe that this is going to to be, you know, the end result for him.
And to be totally honest with you, I don't necessarily know if that's gonna be the worst thing in the world for Philip Rivers personally, internally, how he feels about it.
I'm not sure that's really his endgame here.
I think he really loved playing the game of football, but his allegiance has always been to his family into that.
And you can never, ever fault a man for that.
And I'm certainly not doing that.
There's no question about it, but I actually took a little bit of a deep dive last night into some of Philip Rivers, close losses some of his close games and because covering the Chargers for a couple of years, it sort of became the narrative with him.
He can get you to a certain level, but he's not going to get you over the top.
And I did a little digging on ESPN stats and info, which is a very good site.
If anybody wants to, ah, look into pretty much find anything that you want in terms of statistics and bringing them together.
Rivers has now suffered more loss by seven or fewer points than any other quarterback in the modern era.
Strong seven interceptions in his last two games.
That's the most in any two game span in his career.
That gives you example as to what Philip Rivers has been in the past and what he hasn't been this year.
Monday, last night was his first was a 61st loss.
Excuse me by seven or fewer points, a starting quarterback that is the most by any other quarterback in the Super Bowl era.
So that gives you a little bit of insight as to what Chargers fans may be feeling this morning, and that frustration that just seems like every time they want to try to break through, something just always seems to hold them back and that's gonna be the M O.
On on Philip Rivers put up very good statistics.
Tough as they come.
I mean, we've seen him play through injury.
We've seen him play through, you know, difficult situations, and he's performed admirably in certain cir***stances.
But when it comes to winning that big game, I just don't know if necessarily.
He's the guy that you want under center, and I think it's painfully obvious if you're the you're the charges organization Anthony Lynn and that coaching staff.
I'm not sure Philip Rivers of the guy you want taking snaps in Los Angeles next year, and that is quite the Triple Lindy right into those stats right there, my friend.
That was quite the deep dive.
And if anyone knows the movie back to school, then you'll know what I'm talking about.
If not, just ignore me.
Probably generally do.
But like Owen after that, you'll donate my body to science fiction, you know? Now, another class we don't have a song this morning, so I gotta get my Rodney.
Yeah, no, I trust me.
I appreciate it a little.
It'll stop me from trying to play this song because again, I want to play this song because I love this song, but it's just it's It's so disrespectful because they don't do the song justice.
They don't deserve the song to be played.
Let's put it that way.
Had the especially after last night.
Yeah, you know, look, had they won, I would have probably looped it for the entire hour, and we would have just talked over, and you're gonna have to deal with it.
But unfortunately, today is not that day, and it's not gonna happen, But, um, I'm gonna eat, you know, look, you brought up a great point.
You know how Philip Rivers has lost so many games by so close.
And yeah, obviously, they haven't all been as bad as last night or last week or whatever, but I'd be curious to see how often those games were lost when he through multiple picks and may cause, you know, again, this isn't something new for him.
It's not like all of a sudden, like, you know, he just has has lost it overnight.
I mean, maybe some of his arm strength, because it looked like he was just shop.
But, I mean, he normally looks like he shot putting the football.
But he looked like, you know, he was shot putting the football and it was coming out like, really slow.
Remember talking already running a 40? That's what the football kind of like looked like in relation to what football's normally look like.
Um, so it looks like he just didn't have the gust behind about 80% of those.
So's, you know, he could still zip it here and there.
But it certainly is not something instance sustained throughout the day.
But I'd be interested to find out how many of those games that they lost by one score where he had multiple picks or turn over or I mean, he just looked bad.
I mean, you know, forget about the picture of it.
I mean, that he was just wild flee, inaccurate at times.
And, you know, for a team like the Chargers who look like they have a pretty good defense, they got some playmakers on offense.
I mean, Mike Williams.
Good God, that that was incredible.
That that proved to me right then and there that I was gonna be right about my prediction, cause I was like, Oh, great, They just moved downfield.
He's 100% thrown an interception in the end zone and two plays later.
Um, so but I know, I know you kind of briefly mentioned it, and it's been brought up before in the past, More unlikely.
But, um, I I'm I have I mean, I would say overall and, um, overall, I'm a pretty tough, uh, I guess greater are trying to put people in the holiday.
And I think people are so quick to do it nowadays.
Everyone's Hall of Famer.
It's like you have a great year.
You're a Hall of Famer.
It's like, No, we're not talking about Great players were talking about the best of the best of the best, you know? And, um, you know, kind of like men in black.
You know, they want the best of the best.
Thorne told us that we should We should abide by that when it comes to the Hall of Fame in every lead.
But in football, Um, if you were gonna ask me well, is how is Philip Rivers and the discussion, and I give it an emphatic no.
Um, and at this point, there's nothing he can do to do that.
So was he a really good quarterback? Yeah, he had his really good moments.
He played really well.
But, ah, Hall of Fame? Absolutely not.
If he gets put in the Hall of Fame and then again, that just further kind of muddies the water for me and kind of de legitimizes it because he's just to me.
He's not Hall of Fame player, and he's not even close.
Yeah, and I think you're starting to see that, and you're starting to see the reasons why again.
Very good career.
Put up some good numbers, made some plays when he needed to.
But ultimately, with the talent he's had around him and multiple CPI's ends, whether it be early on in his career or later in his career, they just haven't seen to be able to materialize.
And I'm sorry A what? That has to do with quarterback play.
I know a lot of people were gonna, you know, quick action and go when you're not a quarterback stat, that has nothing to do with the quarterback.
Yes, it absolutely does.
You need a good quarterback to win in this league always have.
You always will.
Whether the perfect play is different, whether it's, you know, it evolves over time.
Whether quarterbacks become more mobile, less mobile pocket presence, no pocket presence.
You need someone that's gonna be able to lead in a situation and get the job done when it matters most.
And unfortunately, that's gonna be the knock on Philip Rivers.
It's always gonna be pretty good, but never quite good enough.
And that's not the measure of ah, all of Famer in my book.
So yeah, it And it hurts to say that because covering Philip and covering the Chargers for a couple of years, I get a chance to see different sides of him and what he does in the community.
He's so beloved in the community of San Diego.
I mean, it's really, really amazing the work that he and his family put in.
So this is not a knock or I'm not sitting there, you know, I'm gonna try to, like, you know, Sarah Philip Rivers up and down because ultimately the legacy he leaves is gonna be Maura about that.
And I think if you ask Philip directly and say, Is this something that you're comfortable with.
I think you'll look you dead in the eye and say Absolutely, that's more of that's more important to me in the legacy that I leave and that says a lot about him as a man.
But getting back to the quarterback play last night? Yeah, I was just It was hard.
It was painful to watch if you're a Chargers fan looking at that and saying our defense really put us in a position to be able to win this game and we continuously gave the ball away, too.
Kansas City Chiefs team that was struggling so badly.
I know Chiefs fans are gonna be t******* their chests this morning, But can you really look at yourselves in the mirror and say we deserved that wind last night? I don't know.
I mean, you know, anytime you earn a win, look beyond belief.
Anytime you earn a win, you get a win and win is a win, and it's gonna count the same.
And the Win loss column is any others.
They didn't have to take advantage of the turnovers.
They did take advantage of the turnovers, so they deserve a lot of credit for that.
But a lot of it was attributed to the terrible quarterback play that we saw last night.
Four interceptions, inexcusable.
At this time of year.
You know, I think I found a song that I can play for the Chargers and Philip Rivers.
I had that in reserve from last week.
So I came across that I was like, Okay, that kind of makes sense.
That is absolutely perfect.
And they did throw it all away because of playoff hopes were for the Los Angeles Chargers.
They've now been thrown a wall.
So, folks, you know, it's just It's one of those things that Yeah, just now done.
Yeah, well, I look at we were hyping it up yesterday a little bit like, Oh, well, if the Chargers do win and I did pick the charges to win this game, and I do feel pretty good about it there until getting toward towards the end, and it felt like, you know, hey, there's gonna be another Philip Rivers.
Yeah, we We've seen the vintage Philip Rivers and ah, you know, I was thinking OK, yeah.
You know, this this This is a chance, you know, maybe we, you know, we're gonna have a three team race, and it's like, No, no chargers, They're done.
You know, it's still it's still gonna be a race between Oakland and the cheese because the Chiefs did nothing to impress me last night and that and again, you know, I might get labeled a hate or whatever, and that starts with a quarterback.
I mean, honestly, I I'm not saying that people have caught up.
I mean, because I mean the whole idea that that ah, player so far ahead of some, you know, teams in the NFL to begin with.
This is an absurd statement.
So implying that they've teams have now caught up to him is even more of an absurd statement.
Um, I think we got film on Patrick Holmes.
I mean, that's kind of what it is.
Um, you know what he is? He's a quarterback.
You throw short and relies a lot on his players to make plays, and that's not a bad thing.
Look, for years, people said, Oh, Brady just thinks and dunks this.
That and the other, um, last night again, you know, and I brought it up last week, her, his last game 12 of his and the only 19 completions.
Like he had a poor statistical game.
Uh, by any standards, if you wantto in.
And I actually I coined this term this morning, and I'm going to see if it ah kind of latches on.
Um, it sze the Parker Reitman scale.
Okay, It sounds very, very official.
And, you know, it feels like it could be enough.
And now I'm really killing myself because I gotta kill the right here.
But I'm trying to think of the, um, Thea the psychology book, the Thea the official.
You know, with all the medical diagnosis, all that stuff, it could be in this, But the Parker Kellerman Parker right meant scale.
You see where I'm going with this one? Oh, yes.
That was non Freudian slip, folks.
Um, this scale is obviously skewed because it now bases quarterback play on on how they judge Tom Brady, and and obviously we know, and we joke about it because they have absurd standards and qualifications when it comes to good quarterback, play for Tom Brady and then for everyone else.
Um, this This would be a big, old fat F on the, uh, on that scale when it comes to you, if you're judging Tom Brady and look, he didn't play a good game.
Ah, once again, 12 of his 19 completions came at or ahead.
Are at or behind the five yard line where a bloke over, um came at the line of scrimmage.
Which tells me again a lot of screens, a lot of short passes.
He was two of nine beyond 10 yards.
Now that's you know it.
It is what it is that sometimes it's hard to throw deep, you know, give the charges credit.
They played really well on defense, but every single week, every week.
And I hear it every morning, every day, every every time I wake up in the and Patrick moans was being typed in a sentence or spoken on TV.
He throws the prettiest deep.
All his deep ball is this is deep.
All is at his deep ball.
Is nothing special.
Um, he gets a lot of those, you know.
You act those those yards per 10 from yak.
I mean, look, it's just it is what it is like you look at you know, his last few games, and I don't want to hear about injuries because he looks perfectly healthy out there.
You good? Yeah, The only time those issues pop up, that's when he starts to shrug.
It's like, Oh, maybe its not hell, no, He's healthy.
He's playing the game.
He's always played.
Teams have film on him.
They know how to better attack this offense, and it's pretty straightforward.
Don't let those guys get a lot of yardage because I honestly don't think this Kansas City Chiefs team can do anything other than hit you with a big play and take mo mentum that way.
I don't think they can sustain long drives, and I really don't know what Patrick Mahomes can go through his progressions level by level and deliver a past 15 yards down the field when you need it.
And I'm not talking about a little dump off screen toe to ah Tyree kill and he turns it up to you.
The field. 15 yards I'm talking about.
You know, third and long, the pressure's on.
You're down by one score in the playoffs.
We need you to deliver a past pinpoint right down the middle of field.
15 yards. I don't think he can do it.
Um, he was incredibly inaccurate yesterday.
Uh, you know, even even that throw to Travis Kelsey, and and and this is something Brady would get ripped for.
He almost overthrew that.
A wide open Travis Kelsey in the end zone.
He almost threw it too far out of the end zone.
And what it wouldn't have been a touchdown.
So again, I'm using the scale that that, you know, the guys on TV used when it comes to judging Tom Brady.
And by that, Patrick Rome's had a really, really bad game.
And again, you look at the trend.
You look at what he does.
Well, what he does well is complete short passes.
And it's nothing wrong with that if you keep winning.
But eventually you're gonna need him to step that game up and make those plays with his arm and not, you know, try toe, you know, make something happen with his legs because we know that's not a sustainable thing, especially in this NFL, especially when you get to the playoffs.
So, um, again, this is another reason why I hate this this this quick and an early coronation of, uh, you know, this is the best quarterback in the league.
He's doing things no one has ever done except every other quarterback.
Every week that we watch, we see something that he's done.
Um, let's relax.
I just think it's there's bigger issues in Kansas City and, ah, the defense was the least of their issues last night.
And I'm glad that you mentioned the ability of the homes to be able to be shut down and not necessarily be able to lead his team to any type of those 15 yard chunk plays that you're talking about, the way you have to complete a pass right on a dime, where you know you're not gonna get any yards after the catch.
But you need the yardage and you can thread the needle and find that open. Man.
That's exactly what the Patriots did to the Kansas City Chiefs last year.
For the first half of both games they played, take a look at both of those gaps.
Patrick Holmes did not have a prolific game in either one of those first maps where they started, open up and then get traction was when the Patriots defense gave up the big play and then, you know, credit the Chiefsoffense they had, you know, the more athletic you know, players on offense, as opposed to the Patriots players on defense last year.
And they were able to extend plays, get big plays and take the Mo Mentum back in that fashion.
And then once that starts to happen, then they can get into their rhythm and play their game.
But if it's a plotting game where that you know, very similar to the game that the Patriots and the Eagles played the other night, I don't know if my home's necessarily can grow and out a win like that.
No, and again, Like I said, the only thing.
The only reason they won that game last night because Philip Rivers threw four awful interceptions.
I mean, I've never seen a quarterback throw into triple coverage more than Philip Rivers.
It was like he was identifying the one player that had three Kansas City Chiefs around him, and he was like, Yep, that's the guy I'm throwing to him and guess what? Four interceptions kind of proves my point, but ah, that was the only difference between Kansas City falling Thio six and five or whatever.
One of six and five ethics? Absolutely.
And it would have been a dogfight in the division for the rest of the year between them and Oakland.
And I still think that there is going to be a pretty good fight on their hands because I think if I'm Oakland, if I'm Jon Gruden watching that game last night, I'm sitting there licking my fingers and ready to go.
You know, the next time these guys go out and say There's a lot that you can pick up in that game last night and also defensively, I mean, Philip Rivers made the Kansas City defense look very good last night.
That's a lot of smoke and mirrors, folks.
That was very poor quarterback play, as opposed to a lot of Chiefs fans coming out this morning.
So guess what? We got a defense now.
We held that team the only 17 points.
Well, did you see the offensive output that they were putting out? Not very stout folks.
So you know what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
These air, the knocks that everybody's knocking the Patriots on.
I'm employed anybody.
The other teams beat themselves.
Well, guess what? Last night, Los Angeles charges beat themselves more than the Kansas City Chiefs beat them.
So if you're gonna make that argument about the Patriots, you better be prepared to back it up when your team goes out there and wins in similar fashion.
Well, I'm like, Look, I'm not sitting here saying, Like all of a sudden passion, Holmes is a bad quarterback.
No, he's one of the co no far from it.
No, he's just he's won.
He's one of the several really good young quarterbacks, and I'm just not And and again, I've never been this way.
And I, you know, call it whatever you want, call it a bias against them.
Call it hater is, um whatever you want.
I've never been to the point where I'm about to go overboard and say, This guy is changing the game because and we've said it so many times in the past, you know, we can sit here and you you brought up Randall Cunningham yesterday and we could talk about RG three and Michael Vick and and and all the all these guys Warren Moon, all these guys that have come and gone in the past running quarterbacks, athletic quarterbacks.
We look at Lamar Jackson.
Lamar Jackson is pointing better than Patrick Bones.
So there's a lot of quarterbacks playing better than Patrick poems.
Let's not forget, too, you know, again, Brady gets knocked for almost interceptions more than any other quarterback I've ever heard in my life.
Well, there were several at the beginning of this year where all of a sudden like you've you attacked those onto my homes, which they were on him.
They were bad throws that just got dropped.
You know, all of a sudden he looks more kind of middle of the pack than anything else.
And again, this is not a knock on him.
It's just more of a knock on the over exaggeration and hyperbole that have surrounded this kid since the moment he stepped on the field.
And and look, we're in year two and call it what you want.
But it looks like teams have caught up a little bit and, ah, you know he's gonna have to elevate his game because this isn't an instance of, you know, he's carrying this team on its back.
Its like No, he has not been good for several weeks.
I mean, he's has had moments, but, like, I like I laid out to you just now with the completions and ah, this this perception that he has this incredible deep, all that he beats teams with this is just not true.
I mean, they see the the pregame throes of him thrown 70 yards in the air like that matters like when is he ever gonna have to throw a ball over the stadium? It's true. Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's no, it's it's like showing off.
See how it sits Home run Derby.
And you know this, you know, batting practice during a major league baseball, where these guys go out there and they have a training or go out, you know, to throw meatballs.
So that way they can.
They can crush these 900 foot home runs, and of course I'm exaggerating your folks.
But you know, there's a difference between guys that you know, do that and then the guys that come back it up in a game.
I mean and look, my homes is building a tremendous career, and he will end up going down as one of the better quarterbacks of this era, way too early to label this kid.
All of fame are way too early to label this kid the greatest has ever played. The position.
Let him play his game.
Let it see how it plays out.
There's nothing wrong with what Patrick Holmes is right now.
Let's not rush the situation and automatically anoint in simply because you want ratings from people that air secrecy and Tom Brady on the dais every single time.
There's a Super Bowl in February.
There's a difference in doing that.
So I think there needs to be a little bit of temperance. Like you said.
I think that's very, very, you know, accurate and pretty much right on the money.
But at the same time also do a little research, and I'm glad you brought that point up again about Vic and Moon, and I mentioned cutting him yesterday.
These aren't things that we've absolutely never seen before on a football field.
They're being done and they're being replicated each and every week.
So yeah, a little bit of temperance is probably good, But you know what? We've seen this so many times.
We saw it with Rogers.
We saw it even with Manning.
And Manning was really, I think, the closest to Brady in terms of rivals and to me, probably the lately.
I think he's probably the most like for late comparison if you want any type of a debate, and I think this debate is long past.
But if you want any type of a back and forth argument in terms of the better quarterback of their generation, the guy that I compare Tom Brady to is to Peyton Manning.
It's not too Mahomes. It's not to Rogers.
It's not the Lamar Jackson.
These guys are not contemporaries.
Yes, Brady is playing at the same time, is him.
But that, to me, is more of a lake for late comparison when it comes to quarterbacks.
Yeah, look, I mean, I personally have Peyton Manning.
If you're gonna ask me to write quite three greatest quarterbacks of all time, are you? My list of the greatest quarterbacks would go Brady Montana.
Um you know, again, partly the bias of being ableto watch him in particular has maybe elevated him higher than maybe some of the people might have them.
But, um, he was that good.
And I think that was the only legitimate and that, you know, honestly, that was the only player that, as a fan of the Patriots, I ever feared.
And yes, and by the absolutely, even in 2015 at such a limited capacity, I never felt comfortable with him on the field.
And we saw that he he wasn't great in that playoff run.
But he had, like, one or two drives against the Patriots early on.
That really just set the tone in that game.
And it was ultimately something the Patriots couldn't overcome.
And that was, you know, about 20% paint Manning, and you know, we'll sit here.
Joe can knock him and all that stuff, and I agree with you.
I think the debate really isn't a debate anymore.
But at the time and during the early parts of both their careers, I mean, this was this was, ah, heated, heated discussion, and I think this is something that a lot of people now are trying to manufacture with guys like Rogers and stuff like that because they try, they try to make it out like that's the That's the same rivalry.
For one they don't meet is often, and that's that's a reason.
But most of all, it's It's the success and the fact that to me, I just don't think Rogers is even close to that level of quarterback play.
He's had some great moments, but, um, you know it just not to that level in that amount of consistency, as you had from those two players and even same same with Drew Brees.
And, you know, I hate knock it Drew Brees.
But even he isn't really on that same, um, echelon.
Very close like rite, you know, about 1/2 step down.
But you know, those two baby Brady and Manning kind of separated themselves and, you know, maybe we'll get a rivalry like that at some point again in the NFL.
But, uh, we'll see. We'll see.
And yeah, I mean, if you're a fan, if you're an NFL fan, because I mean, let's face it.
I mean, you and I are both realists here.
I mean, you know Tom Brady is probably, although who knows at this point, but you never really know.
Most of the time we were, you know, we're level headed, but you know, we're probably looking at were probably looking at the last 23 years maximum for Tom Brady to play in this league.
Don't see him putting on shoulder pads past the age of 45.
I know Alex Guerrero came out last week and said he's playing a 47.
I doubt that, highly, folks, but we're closer to the end, then we are the beginning with Brady by far.
If you're an NFL fan, the two guys you're watching right now are most likely Patrick Holmes and Lamar Jackson, and this could end up being an A F C rivalry if these two guys stay in the same conference and they get up going it on Ed in the NFC.
Russell Wilson looks to be the guy who's been around for a few years, got a couple of years on these guys, but he's still a dynamic talent.
You can picture him playing for a number of years down that line, so you look at the young quarterbacks that air coming out now and the style of play that they're that they're coming into, its gonna be a different league in a few years, and it already has eroded several times and really morphed into something different than it ever was before.
So at this point, those are the guys that you're watching.
And again, we do hope for that type of as football fans.
We all hope for that type of rivalry because Brady Manning was an event.
Let's face it, that was.
That was the main event viewing.
Whether it was a regular season game or a playoff game.
Everybody was glued to the set when Peyton Manning and Tom Brady went head on head.
It was Magic Bird back in the eighties.
That was appointment viewing.
Michael Jordan, unfortunately, never had that rival in the N B A.
Ah, he was always a cut above and head and shoulders above the rest.
Yes, Barkley, Malone.
Those guys gave him some challenges in the finals.
I would probably say that is, his biggest rivals were probably off the court, but on the court, no one no one ever reach.
An off the books.
Yeah, very hush hush to quote Ah, l A Confidential, but in any quit.
In any case, Jordan never had that rival on the big stage.
And, you know, obviously the Red Sox Yankees rivalry in major league baseball.
That's really more about the laundry than it was about the players.
You know, They were players that went back and forth.
Obviously, you know, you talk about Clutch, who was more clutch was a Jeter, Was it Ortiz, You know, there a lot of people that bring up those discussions, but that was more about the laundry, the rivalry there.
But in professional football, we'll see.
We'll see how the game evolves and who ends up taking that next step toward immortality and being the next great quarterback of our generation.
Well, I I think one of the one of the issues, too, as I think people have fooled themselves because we've had such a such a stretch of of incredible quarterback place, you know, is starting from, say, the late 90.
It's on and and that's that's obviously not, you know, knocking the nineties.
But if you think about the overlap of Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, breath far of Tom Brady and again.
You can even throw a Drew Brees into that mix.
But we're talking about, you know, some of the greatest quarterbacks have play the game.
I think for a long time you're talking okay with Joe Montana.
And you know, there is maybe a generational gap between he and number two.
You know what I'm saying? So when it came to Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, you know, I don't think we've ever seen a aim or a like, you know, two guys at that such a historically high level competing as often as they as they have.
And I think people are just now accustomed to that cause we saw it so often that you know any sort of quarterback, you know, you know, any, every generation is gonna have that know it they're not.
I mean, that was so unique.
To what this NFL or what the NFL is and what especially what it's becoming.
I mean, I don't think you're ever going to see this sort of sustained excellence by any team or court.
Yes, I I can almost go down and say 100% that no team's gonna replicate what the Patriots have done over the last 20 years.
However, I also don't think, uh, court, you're going to see the 20 year ah, quarterback dominant player, you know, like I just don't even if Mahomes has a great career, I don't think it's gonna last us long as a cz Brady and Manning has, you know, and how well they played for as long as they did.
You know, again, we're talking about, in my opinion, two of the three greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game who played essentially their entire careers at the same time.
And you just don't see that.
And I think that's full people to think that you get that every, you know, quote unquote generation and you don't like, you know, you could you could talk about, you know, Brady retires.
Drew Brees retires.
All that and Russell Wilson and Lamar Jackson and Patrick Holmes, all those guys being the best quarterbacks of the generation and that that could be very true, and that is likely to be very true.
However, that doesn't mean that it's gonna equate to the same sort of, ah steaks that the Peyton Manning versus Tom Brady rivalry took on because again, we're talking about not only, you know, the two best quarterbacks of a generation, but two of the top three quarterbacks of all time, of every generation.
So Ah, again, I don't I think people are mistaking Lee trying to hype up every other quarterback rivalry the same.
And you know that the results gonna be the same two, and you're gonna be disappointed, cause it's not gonna not gonna stand up to the hype, because again, Peyton Manning first Tom Brady is something that we're likely never see again in terms of all the factors that went into it.
And, uh, you know, I miss it.
I do a little, a little nostalgic, a little little, little sad to think back.
Like you know how awesome that was.
Each and every year, sometimes twice it was it was something else.
So, you know, maybe we do get that again.
I just I just I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
And I'm just gonna enjoy what I see on a week to week basis and not sit here and try to project players that don't even belong in the conversation yet into conversations that they don't belong to.
So that's my That's my feeling.
That's my feeling.
And I done right there with you when it comes to stuff like that.
And when it comes to how you know this next generation is gonna is gonna shake out, I think there's such a quick trigger now to anoint.
And I think a lot of that comes from the fact that there has to be some sort of relevance.
There's so many media outlets out there today, everybody has to compete.
Everybody can't be writing the same thing.
So naturally, the hot take takes precedents, and this is nothing new.
I mean, that's been around for a song.
There's been journalism, isn't so.
This is not anything where I'm knocking anybody from today or anything like that.
But, yeah, I think there's such a jump to be able to say, Well, I I told I called this and I had it first, and this is my take, and this is how I do it.
But, you know, use your eyes, use your common sense.
Just let these guys play their game.
Let them of all these quarterbacks before we start.
Anointing them is the greatest that have ever played because really, it's a disservice to guys like homes and Lamar Jackson to sit there and have to live up to that expectation.
Every single week, you go out and you have a bad game, and then all of a sudden it's like, Okay, you know what? Are we going to do it? We're just gonna make excuses for the guy, or are we gonna Amer? So, you know, it really is.
It doesn't disservice what the guys play and see what what they were able to do coming up down the line.
And and again, like I said, I mean, most of my comments when it comes to this is mostly about talking heads and people just kind of overreacting to everything and just yeah, so is not necessarily knock on the player.
But you know what? If we're gonna we're gonna have this tough grading scale.
Then I'm gonna grade very, very toughly.
Um so Well, I guess it's time you want to do our power rankings.
I think we probably should think most most forgot, because I do want to ask you briefly and I will have enough time to it or at least the last few minutes.
I do want to ask you about the baseball Hall of Fame ballot.
Well, you know, that came out yesterday, and I do want to get your opinion on that.
That's another thing I have a strong opinion on.
So let's let's do that.
So, like we did last week, we will start with the team number five and work our way down and kind of go from there.
So, um, I, ah you know, admittedly questioned whether or not Thea Saints, we're going to be able to rebound after a tough loss.
And I didn't say I didn't think they were going to.
I just thought, you know, Okay, if they lose this game, you might have some questions starting in state, you know, in New Orleans.
So Ah, that wasn't the case. They look pretty good.
And they moved back into my top five because I booted them out last week.
So Ah, the number five team on my list is the New Orleans Saints.
Yes, the number five team on my list is the New Orleans Saints as well, coming back in, you know, making a statement game and we talked about this last week and, you know, I think them coming back and winning the way that they did show that there's still a formidable team in this league.
Drew Brees is still probably the best guy to be able to lead them into the playoffs with experience and everything he's been able to.
D'oh continue to keep a sharp eye on Saints because, as always, when you have a quarterback that's starting to near the end of his rope, it's always interesting.
Thio looking to see.
I don't think the Saints will have that problem this year.
They're definitely a top five team in my opinion, and that's why I put them back in the rankings.
This rig? Well, I, um and and and that's kind of like what it was, you know, they had a bad week and it seems like that was just all was a little blip on the on the screen, and you know that happens as we all know.
So my number four team is the team that I had number five last week and I, ah, I felt pretty good about I looked at least at least for the second half, they looked really good this week.
So I got the Minnesota Vikings and, uh, again, very quiet.
Eight and three.
Team, I think, um, you know, they're rough.
Start to the season, especially the very poor play from Kirk cousins.
Really gonna You had a lot of people writing them off and look, they're still.
I wouldn't put them as the best team in the NFC, but it's certainly Ah, it's certainly pretty close.
So I have No, Yeah, yeah, I know I do.
I think that's Ah, that's a good, solid ranking, and I know that you're well, You're beating the Minnesota Vikings drum pretty steadily.
And believe me, when I tell you, I absolutely think they're right there in the mix of being one of the best teams in the NFC at number four, I have the Seattle Seahawks coming off of an Eton to record there.
Defense has looked better each game as they progress.
Shaquil Griffin, I think, has been a very good addition, a cornerback for that team.
I really like the way that he's been able to kind of change the complexity of that cornerback position for them.
So in my opinion, I think They're improvements on defense, you know, still making the strides.
That's a very formidable offense there.
I like what they're doing in Seattle.
I know they spotted a little bit during the San Francisco game, but they will definitely come back and come back strong.
I think there a very balanced team on both sides of the field.
So the Seahawks are my number 14 in the power rankings this week.
Yeah, I I might have.
I might have overlooked them a little bit.
Um, I probably you know, because I have very high hopes for him, But, you know, I feel like other teams have kind of really started to impose themselves a little bit more.
Uh, so maybe, you know, maybe throw the Seahawks if I they and five b for may new ornaments states.
So, um, number three for me.
Ah, San Francisco 40 Niners.
Um, yeah, I you know, they lost the game last week.
And guess what? A lot of teams don't win 16 games.
Actually, only one has in a season, and obviously that didn't work out too well for them.
But you don't want to talk about way to go off on that year was the year that won't be named, so we will move on from that.
But 40 Niners lost, but they rebounded very nicely again.
This is a team that we talked about a little bit in detail yesterday because we were both came across impressed coming back, you know, and having this team come back Lake, even though it's like they've made plays in that game that should have lost in the game.
And maybe they, you know, deserve to lose that game.
But they're starting to show the metal, and, you know, that's the empty D A L metal.
That team show good playoff battle tested team show when it comes to ah being being good and winning close football games, and that's what they did.
It was It was a tough fought game against the divisional rival.
They came out and impress me.
So third best team in the league, and I'm not really wavering from that unless something drastic happens with San Francisco.
Yeah, I struggled with this one as well, and I think our top two we're probably gonna be synonymous.
But I also have the San Francisco 40 Niners and number three coming in Look, there's something to be said about losing a game coming back and then winning it again.
But when you're talking about a divisional rival and by no means was that a cupcake game that they won against the Arizona Cardinals, Arizona fights them very hard.
But you have to take a look at strength of schedule.
And how that win was they did.
You know, I credit Jimmy Garoppolo and I credit the San Francisco defense for being able to make stops and make plays when they needed to.
But right now I just see a little bit Maur out of a couple more teams in the league.
I have them at number three right now.
Yeah, and and, Ah, I do agree.
I think our top two teams, they're gonna be pretty similar.
Maybe the the rankings a little bit different, but among his, we're gonna be on the same page here.
And that for me, unfortunately means putting a new a New England Patriots was fine Number two team.
And, um, you know, it's I could sit here and argue to the to the heaven said, It's like, you know, you know, we're prisoner of the moment in this league when we cover this league.
Talk about this leak.
Baltimore Ravens are playing fantastic football these last three weeks.
Um, the Patriots are still better team.
In my opinion, however, this is a power rankings, and this is this is more based on what greasy in the moment and in the moment.
Right now, the Baltimore Ravens are beating teams, so I will give them slight edge, especially since they did beat the Patriots.
Now, if they hadn't beat the Patriots, I still have probably the Patriots ahead of them.
But, you know, I got a tip my hat to him and say, Look, you know, they just want 41 to 7 against the Texans.
That's a That's a very impressive win against a team that you know some people have expectations for.
You've heard my we talk about the Texans, and I don't believe in the Texans until they win a big game.
And again, this.
Another instance that thoroughly proves that there's no sense to trust the Texans in anything when it comes to winning big football game.
So, uh, impressive by the Ravens, but that that puts the New England Patriots Patriots at number two for me at nine and one.
And I think I'm in complete agreement with you.
And look, it pains me to do that again to, ah, to do that.
But you mentioned a couple of things, obviously, the head to head matchup.
That has to be a factor.
And it's Reese, folks.
It's not something that happened earlier on in the season.
Maybe it might be a little bit of a different cir***stance, but this is within the last three games.
That rear view mirror is still showing that game when you look in it and it has to be a factor.
The ratings came in and took it to the Patriots.
So the other is like you said, It's a 41 to 7 victory over Houston Texans team that a lot of people do have a lot of expectations, for.
They've been mentioned as a possible threat.
Everybody's been looking at that and saying Look, Shawn Watson is a phenomenal quarterback and he is, there's no question about it.
I love his game and I love what he can.
D'oh! I do believe that defense has severe difficulty now without a guy like J.
Uh, lock that down.
M****llus is a good defender, but, you know, they don't have to dating and Clowney anymore.
I mean, they're they're lacking those big plane makers that they've had for so many years.
So without that type of identity, it does kind of crank into what they're doing.
But that is no way diminishing what Baltimore did.
They went in there and took care of business and dismantled.
Still what is still a pretty good football team and the last is on and and then again, this pains me to say it.
The Patriots offense.
And it's something that I just can't justify at the level that the Baltimore is playing at on both sides of the ball to justify putting the Patriots ahead of them.
This point would be disingenuous with me and us.
So I'm glad we took a level headed approach this time around, my friend.
You know, I think it Ah, I think it's warranted and we'll see what happens there.
But obviously New England is my number two.
And, uh, you know, I won't steal your thunder.
I think you can reveal our number one.
I think we both have the same number one.
That's right. It's the New York Jets folks.
I don't know what you're absolutely the New York.
You have the New York Jets at Cincinnati Bengals.
Well, I'm giving the Jets the edge because they beat the Cowboys.
OK, the Jets, I repeat, beat the Cowboys.
And, uh, we'll see.
We'll see if that holds true this week when the Cowboys come to downplay patriots.
But, um, yeah, uh, bourbon and branch will be flying Big D Big Dallas.
Dallas visits you absolutely.
Should be interesting.
Should be interesting.
Um, look, I, uh, again, I I accept the fact that again power rankings are more about what's happening right now.
And, ah, you know, I know you said people you, you know, the Patriots lost is still in the rear view mirror.
Well, people's memories are a lot longer for the Patriots, and they are with any other team because, you know, again, like I said, if we're talking about the best team from start to finish so far this season, it's no questions.
The Patriots point differential says that defense says that, um, what they've done from day one on says that and you say, Oh, what are you talking about? I guess what you know.
Baltimore did boot to Cleveland.
They also lost to, Ah, Kansas City of the Lost some games and, you know, at times not looked great.
But like again the last three weeks, they looked like just not unstoppable.
And, you know, that's great.
And Lamar Jackson has now changed the game, according to John Harbaugh.
And but again, who would expect John Harbaugh to know all the rules and history of this game? Obviously study the rule book.
And, um So So, yeah, I mean, look, a hats off to Baltimore.
I I'm eager to see the Patriots play them again because I do think, um, they will make some pretty poignant adjustments.
I mean, they did in the second quarter on it.
Just you know, that 17 point, you know, jump on the Patriots early in that first in the first quarter was just It was too much to overcome.
But favorites did make some changes overall in terms of adjusting to the Ravens, and we're able to, uh, force Lamar Jackson to be a throw.
And I'm not one of these people say like so he can't football.
No, he can throw the football.
He's just, you know, you don't I haven't seen enough yet to say that he can throw the ball 40 times if he has to and win a game that way.
So Patriots force him into things that he doesn't do as well as what he normally does.
And you know, we'll see.
We'll see how that game goes.
And, you know, at this point right now, it's in Foxboro.
So if it if it happens at all, So, um and look, that's something I learned yesterday, and I don't think I brought up Is that, you know, look, defense.
Patriots defense gave you a little scare with that game against Baltimore, but they rebounded yesterday and this week and kind of reinforced to me that they are the best defense in the league.
So we will see how that plays out.
Um, so, Mike, I know we talk a lot about football here, rightfully so. I mean, football dominates.
Thea dominates the the topics.
I mean, it's just how it is.
It's football season, but but the baseball writersassociation and all that good stuff they released their their ballot for the 2020 Baseball Hall of Fame.
Now I hate giving the baseball Hall of Fame any sort of credit or religious legitimacy or anything of the baseball writers in general, because I think it's a it's ah ah, group room full of, ah, crotchety old men who just can't get over certain grudges that they have for whatever reason.
So that's why year in and year out, we get the ridiculous.
Okay, I'm gonna not vote for Derek Jeter, and I'm gonna put on like Craig Counsell because, you know, I got it.
I'm a baseball writer and, you know, whatever.
So I've always be spent of the belief.
And I hate when when baseball writers take this stand and that's that's the anti steroid people because they were just as complicity in it as everyone else.
Major league baseball, the players So on and so forth.
We look, we're old enough.
We watched the steroid error.
We we remember it very vividly.
Um, to me, all those guys that deserve to be all of Famers, you know, stat wise should get in.
And this isn't about ah accepting quote unquote cheating or anything like that.
This is about recognizing your sport history and the Baseball Hall of Fame is about the history of the grist.
And guess what? You can't You can't tell the history of baseball without talking about Barry Bonds.
Roger Clements, those guys.
I mean, you just you can't so to me, I think it's it's It's a long overdue for the guys to get over whatever of fate cause that they have been fake nobility that they try to portray saying, Oh, I'm not gonna vote for Roger Clemens cause, you know, whatever.
It's stupid to me.
And I think you know these guys.
It's it's long deserved that these guys need to get it.
I could not agree with you more.
And, you know, especially when it comes to guys like Clemens and Bonds who had Hall of Fame careers before any of this came about before any of the steroid era, you know, showed its ugly head and looking.
You know, the white elephant in the room, folks, is that the majority you have the players during that era were on something.
I'm not saying that we're all on the same thing, but this was probably a more level playing field than the highbrow holier than now Baseball Writers Association would have you believe.
This was much more rampant, much more widespread.
So these guys were doing this in an era where there was a lot of competition when it came to that, and they did do exactly what everyone thought they did.
They made you know they made poor decisions.
There's no question about it.
Do we wish we could turn back the clock and have these guys not be exposed or not on any type of performance enhancing drugs? Absolutely.
But it doesn't change the fact that they should be in there a minute.
Ramirez is on the the Hall of Fame.
Ah, ballot again this year.
I don't I understand how you can keep a hitter like Manny Ramirez out of the Hall of Fame.
I mean, I understand that the the PDS and everything that happened, but this was probably the most feared hitter of his generation.
I can tell you any Yankee fan that I've ever spoken to said That's the guy we absolutely did not want to see.
That the plate, even more so than David Ortiz and David Ortiz, came up with some big it's with him. But it was man.
He could He could hurt you in so many ways.
And that was one of the things that, uh, that, you know, I I look at it from that perspective.
So, yeah, especially when it comes to Bonds and Clemens.
I'm not saying all of these guys deserve it Now.
McGuire is a different story because I don't believe without PDS that McGuire is a Hall of Fame player.
I don't believe that.
So he would not get my vote if I were in the B w A.
I wouldn't give him a vote, but I would vote for Bonds and I would vote for Clemens.
I don't think there's any question about it simply because of their resume on the field and the fact that I believe they were Hall of Famers without the performance enhancing drugs.
But there are interesting, you know, names popping up, obviously the big name on the ballot this year.
And that's the one that everybody has their eyes on his Derek Jeter and he will be a without begins.
Don't say Well, you know, shown thinking to only And I was never exactly Yeah, absolutely.
You gotta look at that.
But ah, I I I do want to say before you go, I disagree with you a little bit.
I I actually do think, Ah, Mark McGwire is a Hall of Famer.
And the reason is because the way I think these guys should go into the Hall of Fame is that they're they're issue, and there should be front and center like this is something to me that the major league baseball should just own, because it's we're not sitting here celebrating taking steroids were celebrating what they accomplished based on the relative.
Ah, or the rampant use of that during this particular error.
Now, is it unfair to some players? Yeah, you know what? Life's not fair, and I mean it just it is what it is.
Um, but you put these guys in the Hall of Fame because again, you can't if and this is how I look at it when I'm when I'm telling the story of baseball.
Okay on, I'm talking about, you know, from the start of baseball to whenever it ends, you know, obviously I'll probably not be alive.
None of us will.
Uh, we're talking about every story and everything that impacted this game.
And there's no way you can tell, especially the recent history of baseball, without talking about Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire and how their home run race that summer saved baseball.
And to me, that kind of epitomizes to me the whole steroid era, because at the time no one cared.
No one was like, Oh, what's going on here? Just like everyone was sent back, baseball writers included.
You know, the bulk of them.
I'm not gonna put everyone in the same boat, but the bulk of them were sent back saying like, Oh, this is great.
People are actually getting back in the sport.
People hit home runs.
You know, this this home run races on the nightly news every single night of that summer.
I mean, literally, you could not go on SportsCenter and not be opened up with a, uh, what did Mark McGwire and what did Sammy Sosa do so to me, I I do disagree, and I do think Mark McGwire's a Hall of Famer because yes, he did take steroids and I do kind of believe released.
I do kind of feel in the same sense that maybe steroids helped him more than anyone else.
Ah, but at the other today, there there's plenty of players that were doing it.
It's not to justify.
I just think makes baseball should just accept it because it's such a huge part of what their history was.
And, you know, it certainly changed the way things are now.
So you mentioned that there's Ah so so we have 14 or I'm sorry.
18 new candidates to the to the ballot this year? Yes, and you already mentioned, obviously.
Ah, Derek Jeter.
But Bobby Brady you, Josh Beckett, Keith Bell, Eric Chavez and done Chone Figgins.
Raphael for call for call.
Jason Giambi, Raul Ibanez, Derek Jeter.
Obviously Paul Konerko, Cliff Lee.
Which I'm surprised Cliff Lee has been retired for five years.
I didn't wear less that Carly.
I didn't either.
Uh, but that's that's kind of an odd Yeah, A Hall of Fame for strikeouts maybe, but ah, Brad Penny, J J.
Putz, Brian Roberts, Alfonzo, Soriano, Jose Valverde.
Um, anyone outside of obviously Derek Jeter jump off the plate for you for first round Hall of Famer first ballot.
No, not a first ballot on.
And I'm sorry to say you, you know, Lee was dominant during his time.
I don't think he sustained a woman a career to be a first ballot Hall of Famer with any without any question.
I mean, he was fiddling starter for the early part of his career.
Yeah, more than a 345 guys. Yeah.
Um, you know, you look at are you Look at Soriano.
That was an up and down career.
I mean, in terms of numbers and in terms of popularity.
I mean, I guess you could look at Giambi.
Ah, but again, it's the P. D.
Situation to people.
Do they not let him in? Uh, you know, Jeong be sustained good numbers for a good long number of years.
But I don't ever remember in being the most dominant player at any given time in his generation.
So will he possibly get in? I'm not saying that he won't.
I'm just saying I don't see it on the first ballot.
Yeah, to me first ballot.
I think the only shot that has on the first ballot this year is gonna be decorative.
Well, and you know, go into the guys that have been on the list before and we already talked about Barry Bonds.
And I do want to say that, like, for me, he was the greatest hitter I've personally seen watch and this includes manager and I love Manny Ramirez.
But Barry Bonds was just, uh to me and just the greatest hitter I've personally watched in my 30 some odd years of being alive.
I'm not going to say the whole number because I like being being able.
TN likes his anonymity Beef. Oh, that's right.
That's right, although I tend to attend open my mouth too much anyways.
But look, Barry Bonds, the idea that he's on his eighth year on the ballot is it's just absurd to me.
I mean, again, I I don't want I don't want to hear any sort of fake like nobility or fake moral reasonings.
I mean, it's all it's all b s.
I mean, like I said, I outlined it when we first started talking about this.
Um, I think the whole voting system is a joke.
To be honest, I think there's far too much power given to guys that most of which haven't played the game and again tend to hold grudges beyond a reasonable time period.
So, um, again, Roger Clemens, I think you get in.
Billy Wagner is an interesting case because I think he gets it.
He gets so overshadowed and rightfully so by Mariano Rivera that, um, you know, I feel like he's never going to get his just just cause.
And then then you have the case of Curt Schilling.
No, I think this is another example of, you know, how why I hate the voting process because Curt Schilling isn't in the Hall of Fame because people don't like his politics.
I mean, that's the only reason you do.
You have to be realistic about it.
Otherwise, he is.
He meets the criteria, you know? I mean, you know you can throw.
I know, you know, people throw stats at it and say, Oh, well, this that.
But, you know, Post Schilling has Schilling has indelible moments. Exactly.
Schilling has indelible moments in the postseason that counts for something it really does clutch that clutch gene counts for something I could news for you folks.
That's the reason why Derek Jeter is getting into the Hall of Fame and probably will get in with a very high number of votes.
I thought a couple of years ago you would be a unanimous selection.
I'm not so sure about that anymore.
And a lot of people probably throw stuff against the wall, but I'm not so sure about that anymore.
But he's definitely a first ballot.
I mean, I don't think there's any question he gets in.
Yeah, and I'm sure we'll talk about this more throughout the weekend, tomorrow in particular.
But until then, you're gonna have to live with.
Just listen to us on replay.
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