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I'm excited to talk Lakers even when it's still summer time and we're still weeks away from training camp.
I can't get enough Lakers basketball, so we're gonna talk all kinds of things today.
We're gonna talk a little bit about Kobe a little bit about Shack a little bit about everything else that's been going on in the world of the Los Angeles Lakers.
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Joining me to talk all about the Los Angeles Lakers Jazz came from Lakers Nation.
Jess, how you doing, man? I'm doing okay.
You know what? It's interesting you mentioned we're gonna talk a little bit of shock.
We're gonna talk a little bit of Kobe.
I'm sure we're gonna touch on Dwight Howard.
It seems like it's been like seven years.
I don't know what's going on here, but it it's 2011 the late again it is.
The funny part about it all is you know what nobody's talking about anything to do in the end, via except for the Lakers.
So that shows how showtime in the purple and gold are always always at the forefront of the MBA.
Don't make no difference whether it's August even enduring the N b A Finals.
People still wanted to know what the heck was gonna happen with the Lakers, so I'm glad to be a part of it.
And I'm glad we're gonna get to sit here and talk about what Kobe said today.
I have a few things I want to talk about. On that.
I'm sure you do as well.
We're going to dive into all that kind of stuff.
But first, Jess, I got to tell you so this is a tough time of year for me, like I'm a big soccer guy.
So I followed Galaxy soccer.
I just watched, you know, the Big L A galaxy of Roselli F C game.
And so that kind of stuff kind of holds me over a little bit.
I'm getting excited.
The football season has started up. Don't get me wrong.
I love baseball, right? I watch baseball followed Dodger Blue, of course.
Our sister site.
Dodger blue dot com, By the way, which is now the number one Dodgers site out there.
Big, big Congratulations to those guys.
Dodger blue dot com.
Make sure you guys go check them out, but it's still I feel like something is is kind of missing.
And what's been been kind of scratching the itch for me a little bit has been fantasy football.
But doing all my fantasy football draft draft lately, I've got three teams at this point, but just to give you an idea of how my week has gone jazz, I had a team two days before he announced his retirement.
I drafted Andrew Luck.
I drafted Lamar Miller, who tore his A, C L and T Y now isn't gonna have 1/4 bag throw to him.
My team is like D away, and the season hasn't even started yet.
That's how things have gone for me so far.
Just it's it's still fun.
But, uh, the brutal it could be that fun.
It's not gonna be that funding a couple of weeks when the when the season starts and you're losing every single time.
But Steve, it's funny because people would be.
I did my fantasy football draft yesterday, and we ended up with just 10 of us in the league.
I had the seventh pick, so it's kind of a no man's land pick for your first when you gotta gotta reach for running back.
I mean, I was happy that I got James Connor.
I also got Michael Tom, this is my second fix.
But then I looked at my squad at the end of it.
I'm like, Oh, this team sucks.
So I'm not looking forward to the booth way.
We should be working on basketball's.
This is the time for Autumn is this is like Okay, so for n B A office talk to any team out there.
They love what they did over the offseason.
That's just that's the way it is.
You talk to any player to there in the best shape of their lives.
They put on £10 of muscle there.
They're ready to go.
Every team feels like every draft pick they made is gonna pan out and be the next star.
Not because it's summer.
It's the time for optimism.
That's that's right.
Now for fantasy football, too.
Right now, everybody's looking at their team going My this team could do it.
This guy could really blow up.
Never know somebody's gonna gonna really go off Austin.
Meckler is gonna lead me to a title, Melvin never coming back, right? We're thinking all of these things and you're looking at your team and saying men, I messed this Well, you know what? It's one of your mentioned that for me, it's kind of the opposite.
In the summertime, in the summertime, I tend to gain 15 torture £20 I end up and I end up becoming for Moby because I really feel like I have nothing to do.
And I think that's happened is I've transitioned into getting in my mid thirties that I look forward to the fall and the start of the NFL season because at least I have somethingto watch on TV and I have something to do.
But I looked at my fantasy team after I was done drafting it.
Everybody, you know, my friends are talking smack and they're doing all that.
And then I just looked at my roster and I was gonna start giving it to other people.
I looked and I said, Yeah, my team sucks, and that was my first reaction.
So I'm looking at it.
It's a 13 week season in our league, so I'm probably looking at about a good 495 and eight.
But I'll enjoy the such a case as much as I can.
I guess. Just you know what, let me Let's do this.
Here. Let me put you on the spot right now.
If I put together, if I put together a a fantasy league for you and me and will do whatever the 1st 10 Lister's will do a 12 team league, the 1st 10 listeners to contact me and say they want in would you do it? Absolutely.
100% of it. Okay.
All right. So we're going to do that.
You gotta go over to go over to my Twitter account, my twitter handle at Trevor. Underscore Lane.
Okay. Shoot me A d m. It's wide open.
You guys can candy.
Emil, you want send me your name.
Your email address? 1st 10 that I get.
I am going to bring you into our fantasy league.
Will set up on ESPN.
Will do a fantasy football league.
Will do the Lakers nation podcast fantasy football league and jazz and I will join it as well, right? 1st 11th 10 e mails and then I'm gonna put out there for a day.
Will do a draft sometime this weekend or something like that.
I'll put it out there for a day or so if you don't respond.
I'm gonna move on to the next person, Right? 1st 10 go and hit us up.
We'll do the Lakers Nation fantasy football league like this.
We're making stuff up on the fly.
Don't get yourself in trouble with the missus by keeping those d EMS Open, man U e Get a message.
You didn't want something easy with that.
When you say stuff about the Lakers like I do, I get all kinds of diem's that I don't want it.
None from you know, anything inappropriate or anything like that.
But more like you know, you're you're in 88.
What kind of take is this and things like that? I'm used to that kind of stuff that nobody is sliding into my diem's for anything else, that's for sure.
Which, you know, if my wife's listening, that's that's Ah, that's a good thing.
Yeah, that's a good good recovery there, Trevor.
We'll keep that one between us.
May trouble your s o.
Let's let's talk, Kobe.
I guess we should get to talking about the Lakers here. Kobe Bryant.
He goes on and he's doing one of these speaking engagements and He just has all these comments that I'm listening to it.
And I'm like, Where is this coming from? Like these stories air coming out.
In fact, I'm looking out to make sure I get the name of the company that he was with right here.
But I'm looking.
I'm listening to this thing and I can't believe the things that he's saying because value tainment is the is the name of the company is producing this video.
He's doing a speaking engagement here, and the stuff he's saying, I'm like, Oh my God, we've never heard Kobe saying these things before and some of it was pretty interesting about Shockley.
I mean, let's just dive right into it, he said.
He got into a fistfight with Shaquille O'Neal, and then and then he mentioned that he was 18 right here.
You just getting in a fight with shock.
What's Kobe thinking? Kobe? Well, that's the mama mentality.
Looks like he delivered on everything that he was the bomber before he officially became the mambo with this mentality, and you're looking at him and he kind of had this.
I remember when he first got drafted, right? That's how old I am.
I remember he got drafted and the trade, you know, sending bloody debacle over to Charlotte and him coming in.
He had that swagger.
You look at his high school, his tape and you and you see some of the highlights.
And now it's it's VHS quality.
So if you're a kid and you're 18 years younger, don't bother, because your eyes are gonna hurt from having to watch that stuff.
But if you look at the way he played and how he carried himself, and I remember that dumb contest that he want to forget it with 97 I think it was or 90 was in 97 98 1 of the two, and he just had this aura about him that he doesn't care, man.
And he's gonna come to play and easy to come work hard and that he's crazy to me for wanting to fight check.
I wouldn't fight Jack and Jack had a hand tied behind his back, and I had a baseball bat in my hand.
But that's coffee for you.
And that's why he's one of the greatest of all time to dio.
I wouldn't fight shock could be a two hands tied behind his back room.
I think this guy's 71 £325.
I mean, Kobe Bryant is not a small human being.
He's 66 but But this is a whole different.
The Czechs holding for an animal here like you.
Kobe is not if he's trying to trying to get into a fistfight with Shaquille O'Neal, especially when he's a young Kobe.
And this is like we're not talking about, like current shack, where maybe you can kind of dance around him a little bit and be like Spider Man versus the whole.
Can you try to try to get a few shots in here entire mouth or whatever, because you know you're gonna be a little bit quicker.
This is This is prime, like in shape shack, tearing down rims, shack demand breaks, backboards, and this is who you're gonna fight.
I mean, I don't know whether to respect Kobe or fear his madness at this point, you know, it's a little bit of both men.
It's fear by if you're by virtue of respect, basically because you respect the fact that someone 18 19 years old has the balls to go up to a guy like Shaquille O'Neal, like you mentioned and do that.
But I think that that kind of set the tone for the rest of Kobe's career to man.
I mean, he he was never afraid of the big moment, never afraid to speak his mind.
And he led really, uh, some teammates upset that they didn't like the way he was, and he was hard on them and whatever, but ultimately, I mean, he led by example.
He was in the gym longer than everybody else.
And once you earned that right, that you could talk to people any way you want to, especially in a professional sports team.
Man, you gotta You gotta give the guy credit for having that kind of mentality and having that kind of confidence to do that from from the ripe age of 18 going on.
I mean, here's what he said, he said, actually helped him in the long run, even though people were looking at him like he like he was crazy.
He said that was a turning point for him because because Shack was not used to anyone stepping up to him, so people thought Kobe was nuts.
But Shack kind of respected him a little bit.
Because who's ever going to pick a fight with Shack? Shack was used to just getting to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, because he shack and Kobe stepping up to him was, Ah, moment.
We're like, OK, yeah, this kid's a little bit nuts, But now I kind of have to respect them, too, because he stood his ground, even though I would imagine if this turned into, like a riel fight, like I'm assuming this is one of those things where it's a little scuffle on.
Maybe somebody saw a little bit and then teammates break it up.
If this was a really fight, like like Kobe's 41 right now, he wouldn't before, you know if I would have beat him, right? Yeah, you wouldn't.
You wouldn't snap him in half.
You tore him in half like the Hulk did Wolverine, right? Oh, yeah, he would. He would.
Shock would have annihilated in shock.
That's ahead of a training too. And stuff.
So he has some martial arts training as well.
So I mean, I would take shakin in a real street fighting that all day.
But, you know, you're mentioning the fact that Kobe stepped up to shack and nobody had ever challenge him.
That kind of reminded me of Michael Jordan, right? You had Bill Cartwright who? Not on the same level in terms of skills, in terms of Kobe and check.
But Bill Cartwright ended up playing one into Jordan.
Steve Kerr ended up doing the same thing during a practice with the Bulls that he said he opened up and punched you in the face once, too.
And ultimately yet, man, if you fight back against a guy like that and you're on the same team, so you kind of learn how to co exist anyways, you **** right you're gonna earn that respect of of of a guy like Shaq, who at that point was really a perennial M v p candidate.
So maybe shock, You know, that that you liked that about him, and you kind of like the feistiness and about him.
And maybe that helped set the tone for that repeat that they went on.
I mean, certainly it had to create at least a little bit more of an even level because there is this age gap between Kobe and Shaq and Kobe Human in the N. B.
Shack was already the Dominator, right? This was the guy that was just destroying everyone.
And Kobe and Shaq come to the Lakers at the same time.
But Kobe was not a star at first.
We think about the air balls against the Utah Jazz in the playoffs, and this was a kid that was very much trying to find his way.
As incredible as he was as a talent, Every knew he could be something great.
He wasn't there yet.
And so they weren't on an even level when they first came into the n b A and now Kobe did this.
Stepping up up to him kind of raises him up a little bit, gains him that that respect to me.
Look, I was I was dying, laughing because we make fun of this kind of stuff from Kobe.
We, you know, we call this this Mamba mentality.
There's the means out there about Kobe saying where he's got a confused look on his face and it says pass, just get the rebound.
Well, he told Shack that he said the shack was demanding the ball in the post, and Kobe told them at 18 years old, said Just get the rebound if I miss this is like M V P Caliber Shack head and tell him to get the real.
It was like when Kobe waved off the Karl Malone screen in the All Star Game when he was a kid, he was down from anybody, and I kind of like it.
But at the same time, I think if it happened today, this happened right now in the Twitter world, I have people would be going, we'll be losing their minds.
Oh, yeah, people would be this.
This would be like the front page news going everywhere online.
You checked instagram, Twitter, Facebook.
It doesn't matter where you go.
It would have you would you would see this stuff and their feud kind of continued on, You know, during that rough seas in the 03 or four year and then even after that one shack and got moved to Miami, it ended up being, um, like the perfect the perfect thing that happened, like 10 years too early.
You know what I mean because it would have been an Internet phenomenon if this would happen then.
So maybe it's a good thing for both of them that we didn't get all the details and some of the backs of behind the scenes stuff that you probably hear now in terms of sources and leeks and whatnot.
So maybe maybe it was a blessing in disguise for these two as they went forward, that their reputations didn't take a big hit, knowing that we would have gotten a lot more of the details now than we would have at the time of their their feud that they were had going on.
I mean, what would have broke the Internet? That's that's for sure.
Look, Twitter went down during Kobe's final game for certain spells because everybody was going crazy over it.
If there was something like this, Shaq versus Kobe going after each other, it would have been it would have been just absolute madness, and it would've been a lot of fun.
To a degree, Yeah, I mean, a lot of fun, but the same time, I mean, that kind of that kind of drama would have been would have been a little bit crazy.
I thought it was really interesting to that.
This is something that a lot of people have said.
This isn't the first time we've heard this, but this idea of how good could shack have been if he was Kobe, if he had Kobe's work, Ethics of you took Kobe's brain and you put it in shock.
But Jack's body, how good that player is, and that question basically gets posed to him.
It's asking a way of Shack.
Had your work ethic, how good you and Kobe says he would have been the greatest of all time, said we would have been talking about the greatest basketball player ever.
Uh, you agree with that? You know, I always, you know, in a weird way, Um, and I guess there's growing up at the time that I did like nobody could do what Michael Jordan did.
You know what I mean? I mean, it was at that point that he was playing with what the Bulls, even the first to repeat that they had, and then the 2nd 3 feet that they had that you never thought they were going to lose.
And even even with shack on that team.
I would say those that 2000 Team 1 4000 to where he was the Alfa male and the most dominant guy in the league.
He wasn't shape when we got to see what he could do.
Now, could he sustain that over 82 games? You know, probably not just because of his just being seven foot 17 foot to whatever years and 300 plus Palance.
It's tough to continue that at that level, but I mean to me, Shock already is one of the best five, arguably 10 players in arguably five top 10 for sure in my lifetime in the n b a.
I mean, he was He was just phenomenal the way he was.
But I always believe that, especially in the last 2030 years, maybe going back just before Kareem on and coming into.
Now it's a guard dominated league, and it just the way they look.
And for shock, it was you could triple teamed them and yeah, it would have left a couple of guys open, but you could have taken him out of the game.
If you really wanted to.
You would've killed by the other guys are hot that were on the floor with them, but I mean, there was an option.
But to me, I still think Shaq is great.
I don't think he ever would have been greatest of all time, regardless of how good a shape you What about you? I mean, I think he's at least in the argument as greatest of all time, because I think, like, yes, Jordan is the default answer is greatest of all time and for good reason, right? I mean, he's got if you, if you go statistically, you go, you go through championships, you never losing in the finals and Hominy, two different threepeat, that it's hard to compete with that.
But when you look at what they did, you look at what the numbers they put up over the course of their career.
You could at least make it argument for, say, Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
You could release about him in that conversation, and Shack and Kareema are pretty close.
I mean, look, my buddy Alan, slew of from from ESPN did a big question the other day on Twitter, where he was asking, Who's Who's the greatest Laker center ever is it? Is it shack? Or is it Karim? Isn't somebody else? A lot of people were saying Karim somewhere saying Shack as well.
But I would think that because it's that close already.
And Karim's already in that discussion with Jordan.
If you gave Shack a little bit more like, let's say that shacks worth ethic was just absolutely unmatched.
And let's say he gets his free throw shooting because of that up to say 75%.
Let's say he's shooting 75% from the line.
How are you going to stop him then, like then what kind of numbers to shack put up, then how many? How many records to Shack break at that point of what? How much longer does he wind up playing because he's doing a better job taking care of his body and look at what Kobe went through the play for as long as he did two decades in Los Angeles? How long to shack play and then what does that allow him to do? I don't know.
I mean, I think it's an interesting concept.
It's obviously something we'll never know the answer to, but I can't write it off.
I think that he could maybe be considered the greatest ever if he had that kind of work ethic.
And if you was just constantly in ridiculously good shape and doing everything to refine his game at all times.
Here's my thing with that with shock, and it's like I've had this discussion with a lot of people before.
Two was shock to me.
And, like I said, you know, being born in the early eighties and getting to see him come up through Orlando and that his dominance with with L.
He is the most dominant player I've ever seen.
Now greatest and dominant O R.
Two different definitions.
But to me, he is the most dominant player, like, Yeah, there's nothing you could do with him.
And I also think like you mentioned the fact that hey, man, he had this.
He had the size, the athleticism, the skill and the touch around the hoop that Ah, lot of big men.
At that time, I really just didn't have.
But I think you look at that.
His physical gifts were also kind of his weakness at the same time, too, because if you're a seven foot 1 £330.
You can't put that wear and tear on your body 10 months a year.
It just it's not gonna land.
You saw what happened towards the tail end of his career, even even if he tried to stay in shape.
It's just tough.
Your body breaks down at a lot earlier age and a lot earlier than somebody who was built like Kobe.
Who's 66 lender? Uh, you know, Leader has a lot more just in terms of lean muscle mass, not fatso.
I think a lot of that has to do with it.
But, I mean, just look at the physics of it.
I do think that, you know, Shack is great and dominant, but I also think he could have worked harder and been in shape during the season.
Absolutely, and his name's with is regular season numbers probably took a bit of a hit.
I also think it doesn't help that the possible decides with marble, it's free.
But at the same time, I feel like shooting a g****.
Yeah, I imagine I started shooting a pebble into a vessel.
It stopped to do right? Yeah, but I mean, I just think for him.
I think that was expecting looking his playoff numbers, men.
He was always ready to go, especially his prime years. And he dominated.
And you can ask for more of him in the playoffs and what he gave.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think Shaq is is the most dominant force that we've seen.
I mean, look, teams were loading up on just big bodies.
Are you seven feet tall? Are you somewhere close to it? Somewhere between 253 £100? Cool.
Guess what? Your in n b a player.
Now we're gonna throw you in Shaquille O'Neal just because you're you're big enough to stand up to him.
Teams loaded up on players like that that didn't have the skill to really play in the n B A.
But because they were big bodies, they could throw them out there.
And Shaquille O'Neal? There were six fouls.
That's that's how dominant he was.
The teams were changing the way that they structured their roster in order to deal with him.
So yeah, I get your point. That is hard to say.
Oh, he would have been better then he was.
But I think it's some point like his mentality had to make some sort of negative impact.
Not that he had a loser's mentality or anything like that, because obviously he's extremely successful.
But just in terms of taking care of his body, I wonder if there's another level he could have had.
Maybe you're right.
Maybe that doesn't push him into greatest of all time category, but sure would be fun to find out.
I certainly wouldn't.
Wouldn't bet against it, though.
And speaking of betting like that transition there, that's a great dress.
Yeah, that's pretty good.
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All right, jazz. So Kobe.
Also, throughout this assertion, he said that that the Lakers had Shack been more committed, that they would have won 12 rings.
That Kobe said 12 effing rings.
But this is a family show.
Okay, so he said he said they would have won 12 rings.
And I think that's also buying into this idea that if Shack was more committed, there would have been less friction between Shaq and Kobe that a lot of their issues stemmed from Kobe being the obsessive player who is just working out nonstop.
His workouts are legendary from working out 34 times a day, never doing anything other than the basketball.
And then you had check who's making movies and rap albums and doing all of these other things and, you know, recovering on company time and all that just to opposite personalities.
But the idea here is that maybe they would have meshed well together.
Plus, you get a little bit of an increase in performance from Shack 12 rings, though.
Is Kobe exaggerating? Or is that a realistic possibility? Had they stayed together for the entirety of their careers and shack? Been if shack it had Mamba mentality, I guess, for lack of way.
Well, we both know that's an exaggeration way we're gonna get there.
They're gonna win 12.
But I mean, could they have 15? I just really think so.
Could you imagine that the greatest dynasty of all time in any sport, that was for sure.
But, um, I looked at the numbers, and if you look at this, the boat came to the Lakers at the same time.
So Kobe's averages over the eight seasons with Shack in the playoffs, 21 points, five boards, five assists, shacks average over that time, 27 13 rebounds just under three times.
Again, if you look at the series that they lost now, every young team and we've seen this.
In the end, it just happens like that.
A team coming up.
So when the championship will take their, they take your lumps right.
Lost in Utah 98.
They lost to Utah.
You look at shacks. Numbers.
22 a game In the 97 loss in the serious to the Jazz 98 he averaged 31 then, in 99 the loss to the Spurs.
He was putting up 23.
7 Kobe Young Kobe night, 11 points a game in 1997.
Still, young Kobe, 10 points a game in 98 20 won a game in 1999.
So if you look at this and then you look at that 2004 final, which I always think Shack was amazing in putting up 26 11 Kobe small producing that one, even though the Pistons, I think we weren't gonna be be in that series.
But if you look at the continuity of it, I do think shack in two more years left in terms of 2005 and 2006.
Yeah, that they could have won a ring, But, I mean, I don't know about more than that.
What about you? Yeah.
I mean, I guess first thing that I take issue with Kobe's fault that they lost to the Pistons.
Come on, Karl Malone was hurt.
They were starting that.
I love Slava, but he's not the guy you want starting in the n b a Finals if you're hoping to win, even though the Lakers were the heavy favorite in that Siri's.
But, uh but yeah, I mean, look it, it's definitely an exaggeration by the time you get prime ish Kobe, by the time you get 22 23 year old Kobe by that point, if we're looking at, say that 99 season 99 2000 let's say that's the first season you really got just killer Mamba mentality, Kobe by that point, shacks already 27.
So if you're winning championships from then on and Shaq and Kobe stay together, I mean, even if let's say they stay together through 2007.
Shacks 34 there.
He's already started his decline.
Uh, it would be tough.
It would be tough to win that many championships and wrote 12 obviously, is an exaggeration, but I mean, maybe they get five.
I think you're right there.
That could have been possible if they stayed together.
Looks like they lost in 045 of them signed Austin.
0304 That was against the Pistons.
But have they stayed together for another couple of seasons? Let's say they tried two more seasons.
Who's to say they couldn't have wanna know 4050506 like that? That definitely could happen.
Shack was putting up 23 10 with the Miami Heat in, 0405 and then 20 and nine with the Heat and appearing in 73 games and then 58 games.
So obviously, you know, dealing with some injuries here and they're starting to slow down.
But still, that's a good enough shack.
And as you're getting like ultra prime Kobe in those years that some of the best Kobe years that you're going to see, I think that team probably could have won a title.
Have they stuck together? Go 12 maybe even three more.
Oh, yeah, you know, going back to that.
03 or four of them.
The Pistons, that one, The one they lost the Pistons and five.
It was like, You know, I know that I like it said on paper, the Lakers with a heavy favorite.
That to me, that Pistons team was so good because they were so balanced, dominant defensively.
And they just played together as a team and all the Lakers chemistry issue that as you mentioned the car below the injury, that really kind of torpedo their chances and and the piston just played them well, you know what I mean? That and Tayshaun Prince making Kobe's life a nightmare in terms of defensively on shock.
It was like not Ben Wallace.
But the Pistons game plan of basically cool shackle hadn't scored your 30 and do whatever you want, but it's not gonna let anybody else beat us.
But you know that 04 or five year that San Antonio team wasn't very good, you know that beat the Pistons, so I think that the Lakers could have could have beaten them there, and then that old five or six Miami team obviously wouldn't have been there.
The Mavs We're in the final that year, and I think that a team with Prime Kobe and just coming down shack still wins those easily.
But I mean, you know, you look at those like I said the 1st 3 years they were together, find it happens.
Teams have to learn and and young teams have to come together and grow.
You know, growing pains happened.
You saw that even with the Raptor minus tomorrow to Rose.
And this year they got collide.
But they've had their playoff failures before, But But to me, I mean, if you just look at the at the numbers of what they did, I think Shack was amazing in the playoffs every time Kobe on the come up.
Obviously not very good.
But yeah, it's one of the one of those what ifs.
You know, you'll never get an answer to that.
If Jordan doesn't retire the first time the Bulls win eight in a row.
Everybody's thinking, Yes, but I mean we'll never have an answer to it.
Yeah, there's no way to know we don't We don't have a DeLorean.
We can't go back in time and change their minds or anything.
But I remember thinking at the time when Shack was getting traded.
I remember thinking someday, someday they're going to talk about this and they're gonna regret it someday.
They're gonna regret parting ways, you know? Look, Kobe wants to be the man.
He wants to do his thing right.
And Shacks Shack's got some issues with his contract and things like that.
They're gonna regret not sticking together and winning as many as they could because you have arguably the top two players in the league on the same team.
And ah, man, that was That was a fun team to watch.
That was an exciting time to be a Lakers fan.
And then they take that big step back shack leave, and suddenly it's Kobe's team with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler and Brian Grant, Smush Parker and all these guys coming through.
Hey, you just missed.
Parker had some moments, but yeah, Smush Parker that a young Luke Walton getting out there and you know it's funny.
We're talking about this like that 98 90 90 minute.
No, it was it was a strike year or two.
There's only I think they played 50 games that year, correct, right? If you look at that Laker spot, some of the guys they had on the roster, like Glen Rice I love blood races gave you.
It's also, uh, Ruben Patterson got a little bit better after that tie.
Eddie Jones, Robert Orry, Derek Harper, Rick Fox.
I wouldn't know what happened there.
Was that just a Del Harris effective thing.
Well, let's see.
Eddie Jones got traded for Glen Rice, right? And so that was okay, So these are I'm just reading that where they had on the program.
But that was, you know, that was you didn't have prime Kobe yet.
You had Kobe who was still coming up, and I think they ran into the Utah Jazz that year.
If I were in fact, they ran into jazz a few years in a row.
It was it was tough, but yeah, that team.
But I don't know what was going on there, you know, at one point they had Nick Van Exel's.
They had you had any jobs yet Kobe.
But Kobe was battling with Eddie Jones for the starting role there, but they had the pieces.
They just didn't quite mesh together.
that was there were still taking our lumps phase before they really break through.
And it was still fun.
They were still an exciting young team.
But it was until 2000 that they finally broke through and they and they made it all the way.
And then every went, Oh, crap.
This is gonna be a team toe to reckon with.
For a long time now and again, it feels like that run could've been longer.
That will be run. Could have gone longer.
How much credit do you give to Phil Jackson for that? For that 2000 championship team coming in and kind of reinventing everything because it was basically the same school on minus a couple of spare parts.
How much of an effect do you think it at bringing him in to lead that scene? I think it was big.
I think, that there wasn't so much.
It's not like Phil came in and said, Here's the triangle offense.
It's gonna solve everything because the triangle offense is magical, and now everything.
Now you're just gonna dominate everyone that nobody's going to stop you.
I don't think it's necessarily in exes. and oh's thing.
It was more of just getting the right pieces to mesh together.
And when you've got that kind of talent, that's the kind of Coach Phil Jackson is, right? Like you're not gonna bring in Phil Jackson to completely reinvent your offense and revolutionized the game, right? You're not gonna get a seven seconds or less style revolution that completely changes the game of basketball.
You're not getting that from Phil Jackson.
Okay, you're not getting the the sideline out of bound, bound place that you get out of like a Doc Rivers right? Or Brad Stevens or any of those coaches that wasn't really filled, but getting personalities to mesh together, finding ways to make the pieces fit.
That's Phil Jackson, and that was the brilliance.
And that's why I think that that he did make it a huge impact because he had all that talent that was ready.
They were ready to win.
They just didn't quite mesh together the way they needed to, and then Phil was able to be that that kind of peace that pushed them over the top and got them to perform to their highest level.
It's funny with Phil Jackson.
I mean, again, you can go back to read our back.
Probably the greatest coach in NBA history, as much as it pains us to say that being being a Lakers nation.
But, I mean, if you look at it like a guard of our lifetime, you know, the greatest.
But if you look at at the TV ad, man, you know what I mean.
And I look at guys like Rick Adelman who, you know, it's got there a couple times had it just didn't have to get over the hump.
Thio really be an MBA champion.
And then you look at, uh, I'm forgetting one more coaching.
And George Karl is another guy who was around who had to have a good squad.
But you look at Phil Jackson that I mean getting a coach Michael Jordan, and hit this problem all the way through going to coach Kobe in his prime shock and his he had a pretty **** good dude.
Don't get me wrong.
He's a fantastic coach, but I love his biography is always like reading it.
But then you also saw what it's like when, when the when he's in charge of kind of running the organization and putting the team together.
And so much of it, Yeah, that was a disaster with All right, so let's, um we're gonna move on from our trip into the past here in just a moment.
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All right, jazz.
So I want to ask you, have you seen the video? Is going around of Dwight Howard working out getting ready for this this n b a season? Have you seen what he's doing? Because if you have it, I'm gonna tell you, and I can't wait to see the expression on your face.
I have not seen them yet.
He's working on his long range jumpers.
Okay, He's well, he's shooting about a step in from the three point line, and we're seeing him shooting basically Tim Duncan style bank shots that those of the videos that have been going around lately.
Does that concern you? Uh, yes and no.
Yes, in the sense that I hope he's not doing that often when he's on the court with the Lakers, because that's not gonna be a good thing.
But, um uh, you know what? If you could develop it that he's a competent shooter and maybe shooting one every couple of games.
I don't see that.
I don't see anything wrong with him trying to develop that school.
What about you? Um, I guess I can understand it in practice if it's just something that you want to work on, okay.
But in realistically, he I don't think it's a shot he should be taking unless it's shot.
Clock's winding down.
Oh, no, the balls and Dwight's hands.
He has to shoot it right? That's all you can really do for Dwight Howard.
At this point, I mean, we've he's proven time and time again.
That's not a shot that you want him shooting.
If you look at his free throw percentage, he's a 57% free throw shooter for his career.
This guy is not a good shooter.
He doesn't have any kind of range.
I would say he's even not a good offensive player now that his athleticism has weighed.
Maybe he's resorting to getting in the jumper a little bit.
I have seen him make some before in games by the way he's taken it made them, but maybe he's resorting to that because his athleticism is failing him a little bit, and so he isn't getting the looks inside that he would want.
But I don't know.
I mean, I'm not expecting him to turn into Brook Lopez, where suddenly Brook Lopez shows up one season and he's shooting threes, and that's almost all he does at this point.
I don't think that's going to happen, but I don't want to make too big of a deal out of it cause it's like a four minute clip, if that of him shooting some jumpers, and that's that's fine.
But I just hope he doesn't really think that's part of his ****nal, that the Lakers were gonna gonna be suddenly leaning on unless he gets to a point where he can prove that he can consistently hit that shot.
And let me tell you, Jess, it's It's not pretty.
This Dwight Howard is not.
It does not look good, all right, he makes some.
I guess that's all that matters, but, ah, I don't know.
I'm a little bit No, Just given Dwight's history, I'm a little bit concerned about it, who's who's a better jump shooter right now at this point, Dwight, Howard or Ben Simmons.
Okay, but you have to think about it.
That's not saying a lot of offensive.
But I saw Ben Simmons make some threes in a pickup game.
And so by that, just from that body of work, I could say he's probably better.
No, Dwight, I mean, uh, if Dwight tried to do that stuff and he's getting caught up in settling for jumpers at points where it may be just like a swing man on the in terms of the play, and he's standing close to the three point line, LeBron James and Anthony Davis will tell him the park is but on the bench so fast that you will be out of the Lakers and off the team and out of the league real quick, you.
He's gonna understand that pretty fast, that that's not the game they want in plane.
Like I said, I mean, in today's MBA, though, you do have to be able to stretch the four a little bit.
Like you said, you don't want anybody being like you.
Don't expect him to be like Brook Lopez, where Brook Lopez always kind of had a bit of touch.
Two of his game and he could hit, you know, face up jumpers from the post and you had a nice little post moves there.
We can hit a fadeaway where Dwight was mainly, you know, Big man moves where drops that or face.
I'll take a dribble to the hoop and try and dunk it on the guy or hooks.
But it's 2019 and in the new N ba, you have to be able to hit some jump shots.
So again, I don't think it's something that is gonna happen all the time.
But if he's trying to add something to his game, that hey, if need be like you mentioned the shot clock winding down and on the wide open guy I'm capable of hitting the shot.
I'm not gonna use it like a hot potato and just chuck it, You know what I mean? So again, not nothing to get excited about.
It just also not something that I'm gonna get too worried about at this point.
Yeah, I mean, look, he's not, you know, Andrew Bynum jacked up a three than one game and then got pulled right away.
I mean, I guess maybe he was leading the big man revolution out.
It was light years ahead of its time.
I mean, okay, what you're doing in practice doesn't necessarily mean you're going to do it in a game.
And, ah, as at m c M.
C 12 on our live stream here mentions It doesn't concern me because jail is taking all these threes in practice in the States.
It's just part of his work out.
Yeah, like that's I think that's true.
You can't just dunk all the time.
That can't be your the totality of your game or anything like that.
So again, and I can't get too worried about it until Dwight starts chucking these things up in an actual game situation that that would be a little bit concerned.
But, uh, speaking of which, though, speaking of Dwight, he's very, very polarizing finding this out, I mentioned I made a little joke tweet about him in the expression on his face onto one of the other day.
I had people jumping to Dwight's defense like I was attacking his character, her something like that.
So he's got some fans.
Still, he's got some people that really want to see him do well, he's got some people who are still are very skeptical of him.
But given everything that we know at this point, what does a successful season look like for Dwight Howard? You know, if I'm looking at it realistically, I think 8 to 10 to 12 minutes a game, depending on the opponent and depending on a night where Anthony Davis might be getting some load management and depending on to bail McGee's health.
I think you know anywhere 8 to 12 minutes a game and he's able to chip.
And offensively, I don't even care.
You know, every new if he's chances are he's gonna be hitting either getting offensive rebounds or getting some driving this where he's gonna be able to put up a layup or a dunk from LeBron or whoever is bringing the ball up off the top.
But I think the big thing that he's gotta bring, and he's always had this aspect to his game.
But has he made it as you truly taking it to the next level? I haven't really seen that other than a couple of years in Orlando is defensively.
Now you mentioned is not the same athlete that he was 15 years ago.
You know what I mean.
But if he can come in, try and alter some shots, especially the guys that are coming to the rim and be a bit of a rim protector.
And his defensive rebounding percentage was fourth in the league with Charlotte a couple years ago.
Now the Hornets team stank.
There's no there's no denying that.
But he was also a big You know, I think it is 29 a half, 30% of the rebound defensive rebounds he was getting while he was on the court.
So I think that's where the Lakers have to look for him is be a defender of be a rim protector When you can.
In the short amount of minutes you're getting, I think that'll make him successful.
Otherwise, like we said, he ain't gonna be on the roster past January set.
I think that's an interesting stat.
That defensive rebounding percentage, I part of it, a factor of theirs.
Who else is on the floor with him, right? It's eye.
Charlotte didn't really have anybody else to grab the rebound.
It's like if you look at Julius Randle's rebounding numbers.
They went sky high this season that he played with Brook Lopez because Brook Lopez doesn't really go with himself more, boxes out other people and then lets you grab it.
So Randall's rebounds went through the roof, so I know there was a little bit of a issue there.
Perhaps that was something going over in Charlotte with Dwight.
But you're right if he can focus on doing those little things.
Focus on rebounding.
Focus on boxing out statistically, JaVale McGee is actually a little bit better of a rim protector than Dwight Howard Hughes.
I was a little bit surprised.
I mean, I guess watching them, not really, but just knowing Dwight's.
You know, Dwight has this, uh, as this whole persona of being this defensive monster, and he's blocking tons of shots at the rim and all this kind of stuff.
He's not that guy anymore, but But JaVale was actually a little bit better at the rim, but Dwight overall was still the better defender.
So if he can really focus on that and not worry at all about his offensive game, I think it's interesting, especially if he doesn't demand any touches in the post.
That's gonna be ki kiss.
His post up game is not pretty.
JaVale McGee is actually statistically purse energy generates more points per possession in post up situations than Dwight Howard does.
And javale McGee is a terrible, most of player.
So, yeah, that's that's gonna be something they're gonna have to eliminate from his game.
In fact, at Gargle and here in our Livestream shot said he needs to be like Ben Wallace.
Yeah, I like that.
Go be Ben, maybe grow out the throw, right? Go be like Penn Wallace, and, uh and that's all we need.
That's all the Lakers need from Dwight Howard.
Defend, Protect the room a little bit and, uh, grab boards.
And that's that's it.
Yeah, And you look at that.
He had a small sample size last season, two with washing, only played in nine games.
Loves he had the injuries there, but over those nine games 25 minutes a night, he was grabbing nine boards a game.
I mean, you look at over 48 minutes, you know, average, that's you know what, 16 17 boards of night.
Nobody's expecting him to do that But I think in that.
And that's where the, um, you know, the key part of him speaking to apparently, you know, rage on Rondo and I think it would be a biggie and Anthony Davis saying that, um, you know, I've hit rock bottom and you know, this is his last chance to be able to play a game and play a sport and get paid handsomely for and this might be his last shot to do it.
He's made enough money in his career.
It's what does he want, his legacy and what does he want to be remembered as? And I think if he's able to kind of calm his ego down and maturity thing.
We talked about this last week as well as is having a maturity to be able to say, Hey, you know what? These guys need me to be a rule player, and that's all he's got to do.
So I mean, and I agree with that comment. It's like, Come in.
He's gonna have to be a poor man's Ben Wallace.
Nobody's expected would be 6005 Ben Wallace.
But I mean, come in like you said, Try and block a shot of game, get 456 rebounds and just alter some shots defensively and and take up some space down lower.
It makes other other hard on the other team to score and not worried so much about what he's got to do with the ball in his end.
Because, like you mentioned, I mean JaVale McGee's averaging MAWR in terms of synergy and post ops and doing those ugly, sweeping hooks that we saw that way.
Don't want to see the White House with no.
Yeah, that's definitely something.
It's not gonna work.
Dwight's got the little lefty jump hook that he goes to you.
That it's they've gotta get rid of that option if he was in the I want to say was 33rd percentile or something like that on synergy, post up situations, which is not good at all.
So that's something that they've got to try to try to eliminate.
I think it's gonna be really interesting to see how he interacts with everybody, how he manages playing alongside a guy like an Anthony Davis because, you know, the one thing is, you look at the White's career.
Has he played on a team this talented before.
I mean, obviously you think about the Kobe playing with Kobe, playing with Pau, playing with Steve Nash.
He had that one season he's played with with James Harden.
But he's got this talent now around him.
And hopefully, if he's a little bit more humble this season, he might have.
He's been kind of checked a little bit.
He could have more success than what he had with.
I guess I should say similarly talented teams to what the Lakers have now with LeBron James and Anthony Davis.
So I kind of wondered, just a more mature Dwight confined, more success than he ever has in the past on a team that has a real chance here.
Well, I think there's two.
There's two factors that trucker, I think, when you're looking at when he played in the Lakers last time, that 2012 2013 season, it was still Kobe's team joke.
Obviously, Kobe was past his prime, but and this is not a knock on Kobe because Kobe came up in the age where it was commendable to be stone cold.
It was it was it was good to almost be, uh, a badass.
You know what I mean and getting mad at your teammates.
And Dwight has always come up in terms of the ho hum.
I wanna have fun and I want to enjoy myself. Sold right.
They always see butted heads and you look at it now, Okay, Two factors in that one, like you mentioned Dwight Howard, six years older, hopefully more mature at this age that he was at that time now being in his current status.
But number two, the leaders around him, guys like LeBron, guys like Anthony Davis they like, and they basically are two guys who exemplify the You know, Let's let's be a team and win together and LeBron as much as he could be.
I'm sure he's been a hard teammate behind closed doors.
He also publicly and during games doesn't really put his teammates down two months and he's not in your face.
And you don't hear stories about LeBron putting his finger and wagging his finger in people's faces.
So I think it's it's to two factors there that are gonna hopefully help Dwight be a little bit more mature.
One is that his age and being humbled with the fact that you're not this M v p candidate anymore of anything.
You're actually spare part and you and you're replaceable and number two being on a team with leaders who maybe have a similar outlook on the world that he does, which is, Hey, you know what? Let's all do this collectively and do it together, and we have one goal in one unit.
Let's go out there and make it up.
Yeah, that's what it's gonna come down to.
It's gonna come down to that mentality And can he Can he buy in? And if you can't you look at the contract that he's got.
He could be going in a second.
I mean, you know, he looks at somebody the wrong way, and it could be Okay, that's it.
They don't even have to have a reason, really.
They could get rid of Dwight at any moment.
That's, you know, that's credit to the Lakers for building in that that fail safe so that if things don't work out the way they wanted to, they could move on to someone else.
Now, maybe there's an opportunity cost.
Maybe, let's say the second option was joking.
No, and somebody else sweeps him up.
And then meanwhile, you've spent time on Dwight Howard.
Things don't work, and now you have to go and hit the center market again, and this time no one's gone right.
That's that's always a possibility.
But I think there's a real chance that this works.
I'm going to stay optimistic here.
I think that this could work out for Dwight, and it could workout for the Lakers as well.
They could mutually benefit from this, and I'm really hoping that it does, because this would be a really nice way to kind of book end his career, whatever his career does end to come back around to the Lakers and at least do what you can to try to right that wrong, because he certainly left the Lakers on a sour note and it would be quite a redemption story.
So I'm I'm really interested in that narrative.
Yeah, I think that there's two factors and this is Dwight and I don't think the Lakers are gonna have anything to really do with how long he's around in terms of its gonna be on Dwight and their two factors and There's two factors.
Anything you do in life really be mentally gonna be there and physically we're gonna hold up because we've seen, you know, last year you have the hamstring injuries which led to some back problems if it is.
But if his body holds up and it is brain holds up, I think you'll be on the team.
Come time for April rolling into the playoffs.
Yeah, I'd like to see it.
I'd like to see him.
Him finished with some success here with the Los Angeles Lakers.
All right, Jazz.
So I think we've covered a Tom.
We've talked all about Shaq and Kobe.
And this fist fight that they apparently got anything it may be is still alive.
He survived, but he actually got into a fight with a shack and lived through.
We reminisced a little bit about the glory days of Shaq and Kobe playing together.
We talked a little bit about Dwight, talked about all kinds of things, even set up a fantasy football league again.
I'll throw this out there.
I've already gotten a number of responses here.
First tend to respond.
Shoot me your e mail address in my d ems on Twitter.
Go ahead and send me your e mail address.
1st 10 people to respond.
We're going to start up a fantasy football league for the Lakers Nation podcast.
Listeners will get 10 of you in there with jazz, and I am will have a fun season plan.
Ah, play a little fantasy football.
So go ahead and do that.
Uh, gotta be be warned.
Jazz is a San Francisco 40 Niners fan, so I really you probably know where he's going on draft day.
So wait, Jimmy G.
Let's go, baby Jane friends and that right there, Number one overall.
It's having Coleman go for it. Yeah.
Well, you know what could be better than my team drafted, So we'll see what ends up happening.
This one, the 10 people would join with us.
We're gonna be lucky because we stink.
Apparently, have fantasy football so good for them.
I will say I was in the league last year where I came in dead last.
So you never know.
I came second last in mind, so yeah, we'll be.
It will be bringing up the rear on this one.
I'm pretty sure people get made fun of us all season, then for how terrible we are at fantasy football before we get out of here.
Guys, do me a favor, head over to Apple podcast rate review and subscribe to this show.
I've been going through the reviews going through all the ratings.
Denise Jones is gonna be joining me on a show on our next show, and we're gonna be going through some of them because the number of the questions were directed towards her.
So we'll be going through some of your questions and things.
So if you have a question that you want to get on the show, great way to do it is just submit a review on Apple Podcast five Star Review preferably.
And we'll make sure on this next show we start going through those and responding.
So go ahead and do that.
If you have any questions about the Lakers or whatever else Fire Muay on Apple podcast would definitely appreciate.
That helps out the show and make sure that you get a, uh, get your question answered.
All right, guys, that's gonna wrap things up for today.
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I don't remember what your instruments isn't the same.
Everything is the same 21 everybody wonders life because I was a homeless man's version of Tim Duncan in high school basketball.
So that's where it comes from.
OK, that's where it comes from me.
All right? We have to remember that.
All right, guys, thank somebody for listening.
Thanks, everybody, for for hopping in here.
I just saw one question popped up in our life feed question, uh, comments asking how you joined this fantasy football league again.
You've got to send me your e mail address.
D m me your e mail address.
And if I send it out and they don't respond.
Within a day, I'm gonna move on to the next person, and then we're going to see if we can get this league go.
It's gonna be an ESPN league.
We'll set up a draft for sometime this weekend.
I'm thinking maybe sometime on Saturday, we'll get a draft going.
Thanks, everybody, for listening until next time.