Manchester City Blues drown my all right.
Monetize my pain.
Come on to find my friend.
All right, we are back.
Welcome back to basketball and more.
Which is, of course, a SportsCastr featured official Vaud cast.
This is your host, Matt Brooks.
I am joined by Andrew Kelly.
Andrew, how are you doing today? I'm great.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you. Thank you.
We've known each other for a while, so this just made too much sense to do for me.
Actually, when I when I was coming up with this show, like, I don't know him, but when this was it was like April or so you were like, one of the first names I wrote down because I just I've known you forever.
We started around the same time doing a lot of this blogging stuff, so it was too easy.
Made too much sense.
Oh, yeah. I'm happy to be here, man. Appreciate it. Course.
Um, your hawks are very, very frisky.
They're very busy.
They seem like they want to do a lot of things this offseason.
They want to be in the mix for the playoffs.
So let me just start with this, like as a base question.
Why the rush? What is the rush? Well, I think it's a number of factors.
One of the first is just ownership.
When you're a small market, franchises like it's tougher ownership to forgo the revenue of having a playoff team.
When you're bad, you're taking, you're not going to sell as many tickets.
You're not gonna have the same level of fan engagement.
So obviously, that's gonna affect your bottom line.
Um, then, aside from that obvious respect, just trade.
Young has made a lot of progress, obviously, over like the last year, and he's starting to gain leverage now, having started an All Star game already in the second season, he's at a point now where he can, uh, pull the general manager into a certain direction to try and help the team try and improve.
So I think just a combination of ownership and trade being ahead of schedule has led them to a point where they want to try and make the playoffs next year.
Yeah, I mean, I think part of it for him it makes sense because he's on that rookie deal, and that's really when you try to, like, swing things.
Look at the Celtics and like all of a sudden, all that appeal of all their rookie deals is like, kind of done like they're gonna throw presumptively a Max deal at Tatum, and that's going to kind of be what they're Tina's.
So I do understand that.
Do you think at all on this? Could be this might be completely ridiculous, but do you think it at all plays into the fact that the guy that he was traded for on draft night made the playoffs last year or this year? I guess.
Really, Yeah, I think it probably does.
I mean, I'm sure that there's reports earlier during the season that trade and sort of gotten frustrated with the direction of the team.
And I'm sure it's hard for him to not see what's going on in Dallas and think, Well, how come I can't have that? If you look at the team Dallas has, I mean, I think everybody in their rotation and was like a positive player and then you look at the Hawks and it's just a lot of sub replacement level players.
So it's hard for him not to see that situation and want something himself.
So I think it probably does play a role, at least on some level.
What do they need to do to make the playoffs? What is there? Is there a move they need to make a trade? Is it just little things in free agency? What do you think is going to get them there? Because I think seven spots are taken right at this second, but I don't know, things could change.
Yeah, I think if they do make it, their problem be, you know, eight seed 17.
Sneak in like that, but it's probably a combination of factors.
I mean, the biggest is just internal improvement.
If you look at their core players, they're all 23 under, Uh, DeAndre Hunter, Kevin Herder Trade Young John Collins camera.
All these guys, they're young players, so I think just another year of experience should see improvement.
Given that that's typically how these things go.
Eso that should help a lot.
Also, just tryingto win is actually like a big factor, too.
If you look at the roster construction last year, it's pretty apparent that tryingto win was not a point of emphasis.
Eso they deliberately did not construct their roster in a way that would make winning feasible S O.
I think if they try to make, like, logical type roster signings, like trying to bring in like a Maurice Harkless, even like a Shabaz Napier just trying to feel obvious holes in the roster, even if they're not like splashy, kind of free agent big signings, those kind of things could add up in conjunction with internal improvement.
That could gets you over the top.
So I think just a combination of just smart moves, getting good veterans guys like that in and then just banking on your young guys getting better.
What needs do they have? Are there any specific positional needs? Were you really just looking at whatever you can grab? They have a number.
The first one I would start with is really backup point guard.
If you just look at how the team just completely nosedives when Trey it leaves the game, it makes it really apparent that that's the biggest hole.
I mean, it's obvious that you're gonna have a pretty big step down whenever he leaves.
Just because, I mean, he's straight young.
He's one of the best offensive players in the league, but you can't have just the type of huge drop off that happens.
Whatever he likes.
E think if you could target someone like a caretaker type point guard, like I mentioned Shabazz Napier earlier like Yeah, Augustine.
I think it makes some sense.
As a veteran, he might want to go to a better team, but I could see him being an option.
Just someone along those lines that could just keep, um, the ship rolling, you know, just not completely collapsed.
Whenever he leaves, I think would be big.
Other than that, I mean, they have a number.
I would say the wing positions is important to address.
Their just have a lot of young guys.
They're basically if you look at like, there to through three rotations, a lot of young guys they could really use, like a Jae Crowder type could help them.
Obviously, you know Joe Harris personally, he's somebody that could make sense for them, just some veteran wing types.
I think we make a lot of sense.
Um, I think they're big.
They're generally pretty solid.
They can keep healthy.
They should be good there. They should be good center.
They have Dwayne Dedmon next year.
So really, I would say backup point guard and more depth on the wings, particularly veteran depth.
Joe Harris is that you guys were the stealth Joe Harris like that.
Your I think you guys are the team that I'm watching, maybe more than anybody, as like the team that just feels like they might just throw and just absolutely ridiculous amount of money at him.
And Brooklyn is in a tough spot with those with those bird rights.
I I'm watching it, and I I do think that it makes a little bit of sense for you guys to bring him in.
Um, shooting is a need, correct? Yeah, they were one of the worst shooting teams in the league last year, and they have the most cap space in the league, a little under 50 million.
We still have to see the captain everything, but they will have the most cap space, so they'll be in a position where they wanted to make the commanding offer.
Then they probably could.
I'm not sure that I would endorse, like over paying for Joe Harris.
I mean, he's in his late twenties, and when you look at, you know Trae Young having just turned 22 I think you might want to manage your experience.
You wanna manage like the age curve, like a little bit better than that.
Also, I just think that it would be so hard for Brooklyn toe lose Joe Harris there much further along.
Right? I agree that there much further along.
And I think that they will come to a deal.
In my opinion, pretty early and free agency with Joe Harris.
He just fits too well, Yeah, yeah.
I I don't think I don't think it will happen, but that's, like, kind of the That's the thing with the Harris thing is like, I don't know what the market is like.
I hear about teams that are gonna, you know, throw money at him.
But it's like, you know, it's like I can point of one or two teams.
I just don't think it's likely.
So, um, well, only a handful of teams, like, even have money.
Yeah, yeah, I understand what this offseason.
Only a handful of teams truly have money.
So, like there's not gonna be very many suitors.
And obviously the Ox would be one of the more obvious one, given both need and the money they have.
Do you feel like they're gonna throw a crazy amount of money at somebody or they're going to try to, like, grab a bunch of guys and really just build like a strong one through 10 rotation? Yeah, I think that's really like the big question, and nobody really knows.
I mean, they could go a lot of directions with that.
I would probably endorse more toward, um, trying to use your money like rationally not trying to go all in on one window.
They basically have this summer or not this summer.
But this offseason and the next offseason before trade, Young's like Max contract kicks in and you know he's going to get that.
So they basically have to spend their money within the next two Windows, and this free agency class just is very uninspiring.
I wouldn't or, you know, going all in, but it wouldn't surprise me if they just threw like a lot of money at Jeremy Grant, who's in his mid twenties.
He's someone who could fill some holes.
You could shoot.
You could defend, play multiple positions.
It wouldn't surprise me if they targeted someone like that, even like a Davis protons.
You could, you know, obviously bring shooting and would add important depth.
So I think that that's possible is faras guys that they might try and, you know, throw a big deal at.
I mean, they're not gonna be able to get, you know, Anthony Davis or Brandon Ingram and guys like that.
But I think this sort of this mid tier free agents, there's There's a few that might make sense.
Nobody knows that.
I don't know what they dio.
Yeah, no, and it's kind of tricky because I yeah, there just isn't like that top end guy.
That really makes a lot of sense for them.
So then it becomes like, Okay, why are you over? You know, kind of over paying a role player almost, or somebody that is going to pay a role, play a role, versus if you bring a couple of those guys and try to hope for, like just I guess, the addition of multiple parts that actually makes you a little bit more appealing in 2021 when there's a little bit more out there.
And I would I think it'd be smart to to look at doing like, one year deals.
Just roll your cap space effectively over to the next year, you know? So it's like I would be fine with, you know, paying Maurice Harkless like, $14 million for one year.
I mean, it's not like a great you don't wanna pay in that much to say, but it doesn't matter.
You know, you have to spend your money somehow because you have the most.
So you might as well like rent wins in the short term.
Make your team or appealing Like you said, Next cycle.
Yeah, Then have the money come off the books.
Eso I think some one year deals could make sense to Yeah, that's kind of what I'm I'm leaning towards just sort of talking this through you, and you could almost do kind of like what the Knicks tried to do.
Slash partially, did a little bit with Marcus.
Like Marcus Sports, they got a first round pick. Cool.
like he he was, uh, he was Marcus Morris in the playoffs.
So I mean, it's not the craziest idea.
I think there are certain guys to like, Ah, mo Harkless is really interesting.
Like if if that's somebody, I think that you could see a lot of activity at the deadline, it's just he's one of those guys, like even if he's not, like, awesome, he is somebody that, like he plays so much of a role that there are just every team in the league needs, like the stuff that he does essentially.
If you if you are like, you know, 66 plus and you could defend and like, you have some type of attitude for the playoffs.
Yeah, like he knows he knows what he's doing.
He was really effective.
No, that's interesting, though, Like corner corner, the market like that.
I I also always like doing stuff like that when I like when I mean, believe this or not.
Like when the nets, back then when they were throwing crazy offers to restricted free agents like like really disturb the market.
I mean, you in your bio.
You you loved team building so that's a different style of team building on.
But it's funny, too, because the Hawks had a crab.
Yes, this year, too.
I thought, you know, going into the season with his shooting like maybe he had a chance to have, you know, like a some sneaky bench role.
But you're welcome to the Allen Crabbe experience.
That Xcel Esther.
It's funny because when he's on, he doesn't look.
I don't know how he was this year.
I mean, that's how kind of how it was last year with the Nets, but it was funny, like it's actually funny.
How many, Uh, I guess guys that are two teams have in common.
But no, it was funny.
Last year was like he would have moments and be like, Oh, Alan Crabbe made, you know, five threes in multiple games in a week, and I'm like, Oh, he's actually not playing for another two months.
So, uh, let's switch gears a little bit.
Uh, what would you trade this pick for that that came out today through Kevin O Connor.
And, uh, I thought it was curious.
The sixth overall pick.
What would you What would you be in the market for And would you even do it? Well, there's a lot of different directions you could get with it.
I think like the most obvious trade you could make, it is just trading down.
Just if somebody likes a guy that at six that they think won't make it to them, then you could trade down, you know, maybe pick up a future pick or, ah, helpful veteran something like that.
Like I've I've floated the idea of maybe trading down with Phoenix and getting Kluber and the deal.
If they like somebody that they think won't make it to them, I think they're 10 eso something along those lines would be a very logical trade.
A Sfar is like trading it in return for a player.
Um, that becomes more difficult just because I don't think that many teams they're gonna want to move a top player for, like the number six pick in this draft.
And certainly they could throw in other assets like maybe they could throw in a Kevin herder or something like that and try and make it more appealing.
But I'm not sure that you could get a top player, one that I think would be a little bit interesting.
And I think that I would like Hinge this on multiple factors would be Victor Oladipo.
I think there's a very good chance he gets traded.
Um, I think if he's healthy and if he's at the level that we've seen him in the past in 2018 when he was all in B A.
He's someone that could make a lot of sense next to Trey on with his defense and, you know, secondary initiation, his scoring.
But it just comes down to the injury, man.
I mean, I don't know how that's gonna play off If you had sort of, like, agreement for the medical side that, you know, everything looks okay.
Sometimes it can take a couple of years for guys that have, like, major injuries to really recover.
Like we've seen that with Gordon Hayward, where it took him some time before he got back up to stay.
I think that he's someone that you could maybe look at for number six, Um, if if if, uh, Indiana was willing, but I don't think that you could get, you know, like a star talent right now, like in its prime.
I mean, someone with that has, like some baggage, like all the deeper perhaps.
But you know, I don't think you could get like a B or something like that.
Remember? 60? It is a weird draft, isn't it? Where it's it's you know, you.
I think the appeal of having the sixth overall pick is Maura peeling inherently than it is to like the general market.
So it's a weird draft like that.
I like the I like the old depot thing, even if the baseline is him just being because he was still, I still thought he was good defensively, like, especially when he first got back.
So I think even as a baseline, just providing, like, a little bit of just you don't know how that veteran know how he comes in.
He kind of He's been on multiple good teams in his career, has been the best player on a playoff team that took LeBron a seven way back in the day.
We'll see how much LeBron was cruising and that syriza But you know, I I do think that does make a little bit of sense, Hayward's another one that was like loosely thrown around, I think on the low post.
Yeah, that would be interesting.
But he's I think he's got 30 million, over 30 million left.
Yeah, they actually have the money to just absorb it.
That someone's cap space they have.
But I would be hesitant to do that.
And I think actually another guy that I would really like to trade for it would be Marcus Smart.
I was very scared.
The cool that Boston would take, you know, number six, even if he threw in like Kevin heard from them.
But if there was a player, I mean, we've seen Danny age to be aggressive, that there is someone that he really liked him and he knew he couldn't get at where they're picking.
I think it's 14.
Um, if they couldn't get somebody there, um, that could be something they looked at doing.
Now that would be a player.
I would I would really like to get this far as fit.
So really just a defensive kind of wing on his prime with multiple years ago.
So I know Oladipo doesn't, but someone like that would be sort of ideal if you're looking at trade targets.
There's just not a lot of a lot of those that Z I like smart for you guys.
And that would kind of indicate that I do also think the Celtics could survive without him.
Or maybe then we'd like to.
Then they'd like to admit, I know he's like the heart and soul, that team, but they just have somebody top end defenders.
Like, he seems like a guy that, like he might, you know, have guys feeling a certain way certain nights.
I mean, you had the thing that happened, the bubble in the locker room, which is like, I always kind of, like, find like that stuff to be a little overblown, like, Okay, you guys, you guys lost the playoff game and there was an outburst in the locker room like that stuff should be happening.
But you never know.
Like maybe that stuff really rubs certain guys the wrong way.
So I like that any other any other trade fits that.
You see, like Marcus Smart.
That's a gem right there.
Um, I mentioned that trade down for for uber.
Those would be a few of the main guys I actually do like just on your team.
I'm always like Spencer Dinwiddie.
I just think like Atlanta is one of the most prolific pick and roll teams in the league.
They run it more than just about any other team.
I think going back to the back of point guard problem, he would be someone who would be interesting if you'd be willing to do that.
I know he's effectively in a contract year because he's a player option.
But if you could work out some kind of like extension where maybe you like, trade down with Brooklyn to their pick, I think they're at 19 and you get then waiting in the process.
Maybe he's like some filler in there.
I think that would be interesting to just because he would mhm definitely, like fix the backup point guard problem.
I believe he's like 26 27 so he fits like the age curve that they want to be on eso.
That's somebody I think I would include and not like a you know, a superstar.
But he's a good player.
Yeah, I think a lot of times people like underrated how good he is and he's truly one of the better pick and roll point guards in the league.
He is, and I think he can wear multiple hats.
That's what I like about him, like even more.
I mean, the Caris Levert is another guy that I think is going to be involved in in some conversations, and I had to say like there are moments where I looked at 10.
Witty is actually a little bit more versatile, like he's somebody.
He's not awesome off ball, but he can.
He can play off ball.
They ran sets for him off ball. Andi.
I think he's a really valuable asset.
The real question becomes with him.
It's just like what is his ideal role for him? Like I see somebody that views himself as a starting point guard.
I think it's a little bit tricky and that's a little bit easier to sell if you're the Nets and you're going for a championship.
But like with the Hawks, it's like I do wonder like, are you gonna be able that? Would you have to start him next Thio tray? And do you think that I don't think you'd want Thio? I think would be better to have, like, trade, leave the game and that didn't when he comes in and you just keep that pressure on, especially with the defense s.
That's why I think that, like, they would have to be some kind of extension.
You know, I think if you were getting paid, he would be okay with it.
But that would probably be the big issue there, because I'm sure that I mean, he's a starting caliber point guard.
And there might be some teams where he could potentially find a way to those teams.
Yes, but I just really like to fit behind Trey.
And I just think they would have to pay and probably to make that happen.
I'm intrigued by this.
What? What? You said you have to do salary for filler.
But I think they might want, like, a little bit more things just, you know, didn't way to go down from 6 19 and it's close.
But if you could, um, they could get maybe something else in there That might be good.
If they don't need salary filler again, they could just take his contract.
Eso really just maybe like a little bit extra value for the Hawks. I think it makes sense.
Yeah, but I do like him a lot as a trade target.
Okay. All right.
This is I'm circling this.
This is an interesting one.
I'm gonna play with the trade machine tonight and trying to take a little bit, which is what everybody is doing for the last couple of weeks because we're all waiting for more.
It's or to be lifted.
Um uh, let's switch gears a little bit.
Uh, the tray young Collins pick and roll is prolific, and I've messed.
I think I've probably blown up you up your notifications about this.
Um is prolific on offense on defense? Do you have long terms concerns about it, or is it something you can you know, scram, switch? Or is that the appeal of Capella? Is that something that you have like concerns about is just those two being targeted together? Yeah, I dio especially in a playoff context.
Teams air more likely toe hunt mismatches during the regular season is just so much about routines that they don't necessarily try and exploit every edge.
And to Collins credit, hey did improve defensively this year.
I think that sometimes that could go over looked like a national circles that just don't watch like a ton of the Hawks for that reason.
He did improve this year, Um, much better at blocking shots.
He's become a pretty good help side defender.
He could hang a little bit on the perimeter.
But I do think that could be an issue when you're, you know, when you're facing like Jason Tatum at the four.
And you know teams like that that have smaller switch here kind of forwards, I think could give him problems.
And obviously Trey is very much in discussion for the worst defender in the week.
Um, and that makes it harder.
Toe have guys who are sub optimal defenders.
It's hard to afford another guy who was in a great defender, especially if it's a big because that's generally where you get your defense from eso.
I do have pretty big concerns there.
I think they do have some avenues.
Uh, Capello is a good defender.
Um, he's a good anchor, good switch big provided he could get the same level of mobility back after his injury eso Hey, could help.
And DeAndre Hunter didn't make a lot of defensive impact this year, but could be someone, at least from college, has a reputation that could help try and get a turn around.
Their camera dish was very impressive offensively for rookie eso.
That's somebody that could give you an option there.
It is harder to fit another.
Well, I would say below average for a big He's not bad, but I would say he's below average for a big.
It's harder to fit another guy like that in there with Dre.
So I think that is like a big issue, especially since he's now extension eligible.
And that will be a big talking point.
The summer is whether or not to extend him, eh? So that's something that they will have toe a factor in if he doesn't get extended.
Do you think it just kicks trade talks, or do you think they're gonna kind of shut those down and just keep it as is? Yeah, that's it's It's hard to say, um, they're trying to make the playoffs, so it's hard to say, like, let's trade this like elite efficiency.
2010 big man, you know, he's been, you know, a very good player.
He added the three point shot this year.
He's just gotten better every year.
What he needs to work on eso, I think it'll be tough to trade him.
They might kind of sniff around a little bit to see what might be out there, because it's just again back.
Thio what I said earlier about Trey having a Max contract looming.
So, basically, if you are to extend Collins, then that money is known and is then placed on your books the following year, so that would affect the cap space next year.
So strategically, it's better to wait to pay him.
And that's kind of like what the Heat might do with the amount of bio and, you know, out of I was a better player than calling.
So if if he's gonna have to wait to get it would make sense that Collins have that way to get eso.
They might try extension talks, but I think he would have to take something below market level, you know, to try and get security in exchange for, like, relinquishing top dollar s Oh, that's something that could possibly happen, but I think that probably extension talks won't go anywhere.
Eso they're gonna retain that.
But conversely, like, I do feel like they they must like, it would be weird toe, like, not fully just pull the trigger on this if you don't know if somebody's gonna be interested next year.
Yeah, Like I said, it zvilli a balancing act, you know, like, if they if they if they saw, like, good value for Collins that could help them compete at the same time, but sort of a combination of, like, short term and long term value for a good asset.
They could see them doing it.
Um, but if that's not there, it's just tough toe like, let that guy go.
And I mean, what do you do then? You know, do you sign like a batons? Do you try and play Hunter at the fort full time? That that could be interesting, but you're still taking some risks there.
And, you know, given how the season went, if they would have missed the playoffs again, like from s**** standpoint, he could potentially be on the hot seat like that.
I think that minimum he would need to make the playoffs the next year.
So that's something that would obviously factored into his thinking, too.
If you're concerned potentially about your job, If things don't go well, eso it is tough, you know, it really is tough.
I think if you wanted to trade him, that would be probably the best time, as opposed to the deadline.
It just comes back to their goal of competing next year.
Yeah, that would be a pretty big shakeup to like, I think, like especially, I mean, it's so weird, like this week, I There's this whole new factor of like we don't know how long training camp is, so that's a huge shakeup for them to make.
And I think it's actually weirdly a factor.
If this this December 2nd, December 22nd date actually sticks, I do think it's probably gonna be a factor for certain teams where it's like, Do we really want to trade, especially for a younger team? One of our cornerstones, um, where it's like we just basically then we have 20 days to try to not only make the playoffs and with a roster that's fairly young, but bring in somebody torto to sell that the trade to like, I talked about to say, Hey, we're gonna trade, you know, the second bus player on the team when you're trying to win, I mean, you have to get something pretty good, you know, if they were to use him in, like, a package to get Bradley Bill or something like that and I think that would be fine.
But if you can't get something like on the higher end, I think that would be tough to make you mentioned like being on the hot seat.
I also, like, wanna know about Pierce as well.
Who do you think would be on the hot seat first? Would it be both with the speed, the Houston Rockets situation? If things didn't go that way, they would be continued how this season goes like right now, Slink is fine, He's fine.
But if they were to have another bad season and I know based on how this last season went, um, ownership is not particularly pleased that they didn't take a step forward.
Eso if they were toe repeat something like this this year, I think at minimum, probably they would make a coaching change, and then it would also then place slink very much on the hot seat.
But at least some chance of potentially losing his job, especially with guys like there are more available.
I do think, um, if things were to go awry, probably Pierce would be the first one.
Um, but, you know, it's I would say I'm still, like, pretty optimistic.
So I don't want a kid.
I don't wanna bear anybody or anything like that.
Just depends on I'm not even that corner.
Uh, what's your thoughts on Pierce? I don't have a great feel for coaches are always kind of hard, especially like regular season.
Um, I always find it a little bit harder, but what are your thoughts on him? Are you? You've been impressed so far.
He's very hard to evaluate simply because they just haven't given him anything.
You know, it's hard when it's like a your backup point guard is Evan Turner like, have fun with this like it's just the roster.
Construction hasn't been.
Hasn't enabled him to any degree is like there's just no way Onda league like the MBA, where it's all about talent, where you have, like volunteer, you know, you have like, young players and then, like, just washed up veterans.
It's hard toe win with that.
It's hard for me to really make any kind of determination about him.
I think he is. You know, he's patient.
Um, he's good about, um, trying guys in new roles like the Hawks have done a pretty good job.
I think, um, letting guys like Kevin Herder, run, pick and roll and just kind of like work through mistakes.
I think that's something that Pierce has been good at.
Um, he's also just been very like, community minded.
He's been Hey was really the driving factor from what I understand and the Hawks making State Farm Arena Ah, vote, voting place.
That sort of triggered a trend among, you know, pro pro sports teams.
So he just had a lot off the court that's, you know, been very impressive, I think makes him more appealing.
But it's hard to evaluate, you know, Like I said, it's just you can't really rendered much of an opinion on him just because you haven't seen what he has, what he could do when he has something to work with.
It's so I always feel bad.
Also, for coaches that are on, like losing teams like that is a tough, tough, and that just creates such a cycle almost.
Or it's like, Do you really want to take the team? You know, the job of the losing team that, you know, I don't know if you could necessarily get a feel for in patients necessarily.
But I do think that, like that is a tricky situation.
It just is like a very cyclical thing.
Um, do you actually let me ask you this? Do you think that they should be impatient or do you think it's kind of a little premature? Um, that's a good question.
I thought last summer they just didn't have a very good summer.
I just thought they could have.
They made a lot of questionable decisions just going into this going into the season with no real backup point guard, um, suboptimal center play, just They effectively punted on the season, and I think that was largely because, like, just sort of reckons, like we have all these young guys, we're gonna play heavy minutes that we have like a cap on what we could Dio.
He had no idea that Trey was going to make the week he did in the second year.
Um, if he did, he probably would have done some things differently.
Andi, I think that did affect them.
They just don't have, uh they just didn't have the year that they really needed Thio.
And I think that's just kind of created pressure just from ownership and Trey again s So I think it probably is.
Why is, like, you know, if I was making the decisions as a general manager, I would want to be more patient, but it's obviously different, you know, when you're in the seat yourself and you have to have more of, ah, short term view than you and I have s Oh, yeah, I would prefer to see like, I guess, like reasonable patients, you know, trying to avoid, like, you know, giving out a bad contract to the mid tier free agents.
Something along those lines, like those are the kind of moves that I would try to avoid.
But I do think that they it's time to try and be better, you know, like they need to try and like, get Trae young pieces to work with, because he's good enough now that you can win games with them and you should try and, you know, do right by him and try and build that kind of team.
I like the one year deals.
Think that's that's been my That's been my my take away.
I kind of think this is why I like these conversations because I I e.
Came into this thinking the Hawks should be like the Splash team.
Now we'll see what actually happens.
They are the team with, like, you know, they're the team with the money this year like they have the ability to spend, so that's a lot of power.
It's also just like, unfortunate to like the year that they have, like all this money and like, you know, they were in a commanding position.
There's just like so you just so few free agents that you would want to, like, spend money on it, just like very when you're a small market team like that, you know, just really want to capitalize when you have an opportunity, but it's just there's not a lot out there.
So I think it's better just to be smart, you know, a long term view in mind and try and roll it over the next summer and be a player.
Then when you have a better idea of, like what pieces you have.
But you got to try and be better, though it makes sense that this year is the M l E market year because, like a lot of guys Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's the battle of the mini MLS in the regular.
Yeah, which somehow the Lakers of the full one, at least right now, based on projections, which still doesn't seem fair.
I think I've said that on every street since since I first saw that camera.
It's just really interesting to me.
Um, what is the ideal off season for him? What does he need to add next to his game? What would you want to see come opening day 2020 2021? Well, before I do that, it just seems like he always went off against your nets.
See, that's why that's why I'm like, this guy's amazing.
Like, What is this like Paul George, Who is this guy? E.
Don't know what it was about that matchup.
But it seems like every I think we played three or four times.
Hey, just seemed to go off every time.
He just loved that matchup, but there's there's a number of things he needs to work on.
I think just he needs to get stronger, just like, you know, he's still a skinny guy.
He needs. He needs to add weight.
I think a big thing for him is just improving his craft.
Um, as an athlete, like he has good length, he has great size.
He's very fluid when you watch it.
But he doesn't have, like, a lot of lift, kind of like Taurean Prince.
If you're familiar with whom he doesn't shoot very well around the rim as a result of that s so I think just working on his craft, like tightening up his hand a little bit. He dribbles high.
Um and I think just continuing to refine his floater and just developing more of a short mid game, a pullup game, then that's sort of in between area.
I think that's really what will make him or offensively successful.
He didn't shoot a great three point percentage, but he got up a lot. It looks good.
I think he's gonna be a good A good shooter.
Probably not like, no, not gonna lead shoot or anything like that.
But, well, he'll be able to make a neck septa ble amount of threes on like high volume, and that's all you really need.
But I just I just think like continuing to work on this craft.
He's really like a big guard, like a 68 guard more than, like a forward type.
So just, you know, like I said, tightening up his handle, I think it's gonna be really big for him.
I'm just staying confidence, staying aggressive.
Uh, those were things that he needs to work on.
And defensively, he's already just like, way ahead of the curve.
I mean, he was their best perimeter defender by a mile last year, and I'm not quite sure if he can get to, like, you know, in all defensive level.
That's just like such a high bar.
But he's gonna be somebody that they can take on like primary assignments for a long time.
He's a very good team defender.
He has a very good awareness of where the ball is gonna go, I'll take.
He's gonna taking selective risk and, like, you know, he has a chance to gamble. He will gamble.
And then if he doesn't get the ball, then he's gonna getting back in position and then knowing where the ball is going to go next.
He's just like his feel on.
His intuition on defense are very high s.
Oh, yeah, I'm I'm really excited to see what he does.
It was really unfortunate that the season ended when it did for the Hawks because he was just really hitting his stride, especially offensively, was beginning to get more confident.
Eso Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what he could dio next season.
Is he, like is for the defense of stuff? Do you feel like it's something like he's a really good helper? Or is it just like on ball? Or is it both right now? Like, is he a guy that really fills the gap well and comes over and just, you know, well, stunt at somebody? Or do you kind of feel like he's somebody that it's more if you put somebody in front of him? He's gonna take care of business.
Well, the way that the hawks like toe deploy their wings.
They would typically use Hunter, unlike the bigger LeBron type forwards, like they would use them or on four words like hunters more somebody who defends like 234 and run into somebody who defends one through three.
They used them on point guards.
Um, he's pretty good on ball.
He's just so long and he moves well, he's good at getting over screens.
Eso you can use him at the point of attack and he could be pretty effective there.
So he is effective on ball.
But off ball is really where the value comes from him.
I think you want him, um, kind of hanging around more at the nail like a Jason Tatum.
Like a Romeo and kind of play maker.
Role e think is like, really what you really want him to do because he has such a good hands s.
So I think that you would prefer Thio deploy him and like an off ball roll, like most of the time I think is best.
There we go. Minute 38.
We had the Jayson Tatum comparison, E friend, Max Garland E.
No, I've just been impressed with him, like a lot of it's just following you, but just, uh, just seeing the clips he throw up, like he instinctually just jumped to me right away.
You just I don't remember seeing a guy.
I mean, you had the clip.
I think you threw it up of him, Uh, picking Tyree's pocket.
I'm like, this guy's a rookie like, what's going on? Yeah, he had a great game.
I think that was It was either.
It's the hay had, like, a great sequence of plays in that game.
I remember he like, um, have, like, a steel on Kyrie.
Then like an assistant up another steal, and they knocked down a three.
And I'm just really like the best stretch of his career.
And that game, I thought, was sort of like when he really started to, like, turn around.
It's like, Okay, like I can play in the n B.
You know, I just started to kind of clicked for him, And then from that point on, he was quite good for you.
What would you if you had to put it like a stat line out there.
We're gonna just throw out, like points, rebounds, anything like that.
What would you predict for him next year? Um, I would say, probably like without feeling like what The roster construction is gonna be like a huge.
I was taking the shots.
I would say maybe like 14 points.
Um, he's not a great rebounder.
Four rebounds, three assists.
Something like that.
I'm, like, solid enough efficiency and good defense.
Nothing like that. Maybe you could do better.
Um, like I said, Depends on the roster construction.
I don't know who all is gonna take the shots like that's like a big part of it.
I feel like he's the perfect fit for what? Trays like I just in in having this in talking this out.
Like I That's like exactly the guy you need, which I think is why, like I keep bringing up Why the rush like this is I do feel like now, Hunter, I don't have a great feel for I mean, a part of it that I didn't I watched the Hawks a little bit on certain nights, but really mostly when they played the Nets.
So that's the guy that I don't have a feel for it are you? Do you feel like he's a promising player? Are you a little bit lower on him after a year, like what's where you at with him right now? Um, really quickly.
I wanted to go back to read it because you were right.
I think when you said that, he just he fits well, like they tray and Hunter Or just excuse me register.
Just like very like symbiotic.
Just having that kind of defender behind tray and the way that, like TRACON, enable his offensive game.
Hey, just like puts reddish in good positions where it's just like is around the perimeter, he gets the ball and he just has, like, a limited number of reads, you know, like, Do I want to shoot or do I want a pump fake and drive it just like the way he sets up his offensive game is, like, very conducive for successful reddish and then defensively, he's good at covering for some of trays mistakes, so I just think they do work in concert like very well, and it's like a good parent Yeah, and that kind of It's like kind of how they the Celtics, grew out.
I'm throwing it back Thio like Tatum and Brown to a degree, like they kind of use them.
Especially Brown, like mostly from the corners, like they used him off ball and he kind of grew into a lot more.
So you never know these things there.
Just having the baseline of guy that could defend like that, especially at his age, is just so enticing versus the other way around where it's like all off, just being like 6 ft seven with, like, good wingspan and like, good defensive feel.
It's like, Okay, you're already useful, like you don't have, like, far to go.
Like when you when you have that.
But back back to Hunter, he was somebody that I didn't love as a prospect, like he was like lower lottery for me.
Like I, I thought he would be effective role player, but not somebody that stood out with, like, a ton of upside.
I would, I would characterize.
His rookie season is like mildly disappointing.
I mean, it wasn't just like a disaster or anything like that, but he just didn't have the impact that you would like for someone who was, you know, 22.
And they paid a lot to get.
You would have liked to have seen probably more impact there.
But he's also not the kind of player that can really help you if your team is bad, like somebody who's like good at making catch and shoot threes and like a good on ball defender like that kind of player can help you like and in a playoff series, you know, over seven games when you got a match up with a lot of different wings.
But when your team is bad, like he's just not gonna help you too much.
But he is like a good midrange shooter.
He's a very good isolation player to I think people don't watch a ton of them.
He's very good, you know.
He'll take the ball, um, pump fake, take help of dribbles in the shoot like a 17 footer.
I mean, those shots you generally don't want a lot of now it is, but it is nice and like a you know, a short clock kind of situation he could take guys on.
Um, he's a good post post score.
He's good when guys trying and defend Tray with a big So if he could get switched onto, like, a point guard or something.
When guys were trying to do a Wigan trey, he can punish that guy in the post.
So the way that he could, like punished mismatches.
Is it promising? I think long term, he probably works better at the four than after three.
I just think his offensive game is more student, Um, for sort of like playing down, you know, using him as like a catch and shoot guy.
You could take, you know, bigger, um, forwards or Biggs just off the dribble.
I think that's sort of like an optical kind of offensive role for him and defensively.
He's good on ball.
He had some issues of times.
Hey, just doesn't have a great feel for for team defense.
Hey, played a system in Virginia, which is like very, very different from the MBA, So I think the processing side of that is still taking time.
I think he eventually kind of feel like a middle of the pack, kind of like defender, not someone who makes like a ton of impact but could be really useful.
Um, in crunch time in the playoffs, you know, when you need, like, a guy with his kind of size and length toe match up on, like these big wings that initiate, I think he could be useful in that kind of context, but he still has a long way to go.
What's your cop for him? I don't know.
If you're a cop guy or not, I'm unfortunately become okay.
Okay, I would say he's probably more along the lines of, I don't know, like a like a Harrison Barnes.
Kind of like kind of guy.
I think he probably has better field than Harrison does.
But I think probably something along those lines.
I think certainly the hope would be that he could become more of, like, an O g N o b type.
That's probably what would be ideal for him.
And again, another guy that I just feel like makes a lot of sense.
Like from a roster construction like perspective, you at least have an outline of something that I think makes a lot of sense It's weird like I like your front line a lot.
That's the one where actually, the most questions like you have two guys that can roll or probably should best be uses rollers.
Now Collins, the nice part of he stretches a lot.
But it's like, Is that the optimized version of him? Um, you also like, you know, his numbers Post all star break, get to wonder like, Are those a little noisy or is that really? Is he really a 40% 3 point shooter? So So I don't know many questions on gay and many intriguing things, I think for you guys, I just I idea again, like I there's there's a vision right there And I do kind of agree with you in that just small adjustments will actually really exactly what you need to appear more and more attractive in the future.
I don't know what those moves would be just yet, but I do feel like there is an outline their, um let's let's close out with two quick things.
Free agency of Teague.
Uh, Bembry, Uh, scallop BC a Damian Jones Trevon Graham.
Do you bring back any of those players.
I think there's a very good chance they bring back scowl.
Um, he's somebody.
That shrink is always liked.
Hey, actually has, like good touch and mid range.
He hasn't been much of a three point shooter, but he can shoot from the free throw line and he can shoot mid Rangers.
So I think he probably could and probably the area kind of back to Lloyd Pierce, where Atlanta has been the most successful is like pushing big men to shoot, like done it with Dwayne Dedmon.
They did it with Alex Len.
They're pretty good at taking guys that have sort of the outline of, like, a three point shooter but haven't done it yet and making the mental one s.
So I think that there's a good chance to bring him back on, like a minimum or close to that a t least through count, Um, if they could push him to shoot threes, he might be someone who could, you know, be useful on events.
But I think that's probably the only guy among those that makes it back.
What is your review on Bembry? E liked him in his first.
Like I don't know if it was forced her second season but one of those two seasons.
I liked him a lot and, uh, now I don't know E.
I like the idea of him.
But I think another team to give him a chance, right? He's he could make plays on ball.
Hey has, like, good hands.
Hey, can block shots.
He could get steals, but otherwise I wouldn't really say he's a great defender like this.
Feel this isn't that great and he'll get out of position.
Hey, can't shoot offensively, and that just makes it really hard when you're his size, you know, 6566 and you can't shoot reliably.
You can't be even if you if he's left open from the corners like he's just not very good from there.
And that just really makes it hard.
He's also very turnover prone.
He can't make some nice passes from time to time, but he's the turnover just really affect that.
He has like this from short, mid range.
He has like a decent photo every now and then, but it's like he's very streaky with it, where it's like he'll make like one of the best floaters who ever see And then, like, we'll just have a terrible like this.
Eso He's someone I think that, like a team could give another chance to.
I think he maybe has a chance to be like, second contract kind of guy, but probably not more than, like, you know, I've been squared at best. Yeah, I agree.
And it's the The defense thing is funny because that's kind of where he carved out his hit.
That's sort of a lane for himself.
So that's a shame.
I'll say, Let me close up with this.
If you are keeping pick number six, who you taken at this moment in time, my favorite player, there would be Devin Vessel.
Okay, I just think that the way he would complement the team, he's a very good off ball defender.
E the best off ball defender in the class.
He's a good shooter.
He profound kind of similarly toe.
Mikhail Bridges just like the way he enhanced his lineups.
Um, doesn't have to do a lot to be effective.
I think he can be more effective is like a pullup shooter.
I think that's something you could develop in the league.
Hey, just seems like a very safe pick.
Um, he's a smart pick for, I think, a team that is trying to win.
I just think to having him and camera dish, like having two defenders like that could really help.
And they sorely need help on the wings.
So I think he would probably be my top guy, Um, other guys that they could consider there.
I mean, I really like killing Hayes.
I want to say he's the guy I would make.
I just don't think that the Hawks would take him.
I'm not sure how familiar with him.
He's like a French combo guard I've watched a little bit of Yeah, yeah, yeah, He's a really good defender, Really good pick and roll ball handler.
He's someone I think with, you know, be a great pick for the upside alone.
I just I don't think they're gonna make that kind of move.
And I think trying to make a pick that can help, you know, enhanced tray and just, like, fits well with Trey.
Uh, conf it in sort of a Helio centric kind of model like that, I think would be smart.
So I leave the cell I would love to see hes too, but I don't think they'll make him the pick.
I think Halliburton will be in it.
They'll take a look on him, but that seems kind of high.
I think they really like a koro.
But I think he goes in the top five.
And I think that really like Denny, uh, to a man, I think he also goes in the top five.
Seems like regardless, it's gonna be somebody that's a little bit on the safer side, which is interesting again, given like their timeline right now.
Yeah, yeah, but I think so too.
That Z they're probably not gonna take someone that's, like raw, I guess. Yeah.
Best way to put it interesting.
Um, e actually, I got one more for you.
Do you feel like this Helio centric model? Is that something that is viable? Long term or or not? And what do you do in that instance? If it isn't Well, yes and no.
I think that you could definitely build a very prolific offense just with him dominating usage.
You know, 38% usage if you put good shooters around him, and you know, just guys that can make open catch and shoot threes.
Not even like super dynamic shooters.
You're gonna have an effective offense.
Compare him with, like, a roll, man who could space and shooters that you can't help off of.
You're gonna have a very effective offense.
However, I do think with him be, you know, a 61 player.
He's someone who could potentially wear down as the season goes along, and that could impact him in the playoffs S.
So I definitely think you're going to want at least another like, high level, kind of like secondary ball handler.
Um, so I think that yes and no is basically my answer that you could build an effective, like, regular season offense, for sure, I think using that model.
But I think if you want to go deep in the playoffs, you're gonna want somebody else that can share that load.
So he's not just ground into the ground is what if you didn't see the oh did what He's like a Helio centric guard to you play.
You play around him when he's on the court, but I think he would be like a bench.
Guys, you could have that continuity.
You play the same offense that when trade goes off.
But I think you know, if I could pick, you know, like one player that I think would fit, like, perfectly whatsoever to be, like a like a Jason Tatum.
Like someone like that.
Like a high another like, high level wing that you could throw in there.
They can also initiate offense would be perfect.
Paul George type something like that s o on the high level.
That's the kind of player you would like to get.
I mean, obviously, there's only a few of those in the entire embassy to the odds. They're not great.
But I do think you probably want some balance.
A twist in a playoff context.
There you have it.
The second mention of Jayson Tatum.
We're building a super team in Atlanta.
Jayson Tatum, Um, I wanna let you plug away anything you have coming out.
Anything that you're excited for.
You can plug anything you want right here.
Yeah, You can find my work at Pete Street Hoops.
I don't write a ton, but I'm working on a draft.
Siri's I have a lot of profiles coming up over the next month.
A lot before the draft, after actually takes place and you'll see me on some podcasts.
Otherwise you can follow me on Twitter.
Great. Please do your seriously.
One of my favorite follows period on Twitter.
One of the smartest guys doing this.
Thank you so much for joining me.
I really appreciate it.