SportsCastr - One Giant Podcast - Kenny Golladay hits the field, Kadarius Toney signs, WR core and CBs get ranked
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One Giant Podcast

with Adam Armbrecht & Andy Mackiewicz

Adam Armbrecht@OneGiantPodcast

“One Giant Podcast” is a SportsCastr Featured Podcast all about the 4-time Super Bowl champion New York football Giants. Your hosts, Adam Armbrecht and Andy Mackiewicz balance the emotional roller coaster that is being a fan of Big Blue with cold hard numbers and analytics to give any Giants fan an expert’s perspective on their team.

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Adam and Andy talk contract value for Kadarius Toney, Kenny Golladay's arrival, and the Receiving core as a whole. Plus, the flipped script of the Giants secondary with the addition of Adoree' Jackson!


It is of course O. G. P.
Where as you know, I'm adam are brick joined as always by the healthy, the wealthy, the wise and tightly haircut it.
Andrew mcafee is how are we sir? You've got to look fresh when it comes to summertime, when you're on the beach hanging out, you gotta have that tight cut and if there's any place that you're going to see a man of my complexion, it's gonna be on the beach, just really sunning myself and or sunning others because I can be used as one of those radial, you know, tanning beds.
You can just unfold me in front of yourself, have a ****tail and really catch those fantastic raise off of what they refer to as Casper's belly.
Now let's go ahead and turn the page though.
Something that hasn't happened nearly as much.
I think this year around the NFL as we've seen in years past is when guys show up to camp, right, there's always been that conversation around, especially when you sign free agents, Are they going to come in early? That's a different structure.
This offseason.
Some guys now though, especially with Q.
S get together outside of the camp, held by the team, but Nice to see that officially this week we did have number 19 officially in the building for big blue Kenny Golladay is there, we're going to get into this wide receiver group as a whole.
But it's just worth asking the questions to be very quick.
How sweet is it to see that number one, you know, come in the door.
We talked about all offseason, the signing the contract as we've continued to stay on this podcast on the team, Let's saddle up and go.
This is a player we haven't had in terms of size and target ability since Plexico Burress probably, you know, in that skill set, I'm not dismissing O. B. J.
But this is a unique talent, size, speed possession, all those great qualities that we love about him.
He's officially here.
We'll take out the comparisons because black star burst is a good one.
Big body receiver would go up and make the catch is for the Giants, but giant fans got a little bit spoiled with the electric plays that Odell Beckham could make.
And you know, aside from them being different in terms of their style, they were still dynamic wide receivers that could make huge plays and score touchdowns and teams got you know, had the game plan for and and fan bases got excited for Now the whole deal situation in new york left in an un ceremonial way, you know, they trade him out to Cleveland.
He was unhappy talking about eli manning, but the Giants, you know, since he's, he left, we've been excited about golden Tate.
We've been excited about Darius Slayton showing up as a late round pick.
We've been excited for sterling shepard when he's on the field for eight or 9 games for the season.
Like that's what we've been happy with.
And now we get the number one wide receiver on the market.
Big body wide receiver, he's in camp, he's wearing a giant number.
He's in a giant uniform.
This is the first time where it starts to get real to say we have a legitimate number one threat on the outside to help Daniel jones in this offense And let's go layer deeper on that because 100% this is a guy that we're going to be excited about what he brings to the table in a unique way that we haven't seen this wide receiving corps.
Also in here and officially signed is our rookie first round draft pick to Darius Tony.
Talk to me about those numbers because the breakdown and I'll give them to you.
That's all right.
When we, when we look at that contract and then we want to get into this wide receiving corps is a hole that you looked into where they rank across the NBA landscape.
Yeah, that's right.
I do another podcast about a sports team. NFL.
His contract to Darius Tony ends up being 13.
7 guaranteed money.
But when we get into the breakdown for it, you're only talking about a cap it of 2.
5 essentially this rookie season three, the next 3.
7 year number three and year, number four, just $4.
365 million.
You have to love the fact that you feel like you're getting a high quality premier talent that in your number two is going to be the stud number two wide receiver or versatile.
The number one, you know, based on necessity of, of down and distance and what you want to accomplish with this offense At what feels like a bargain bin price.
Right? When you take, when you take a wide receiver high in the draft, top 10, you're paying premium at that position, you need that guy to perform like a stud.
We have all the expectation for Qataris Tony This year as a rookie and also we're gonna get to look at it and say and you know what didn't even cost that much well.
And that's important because john ross is almost at about $2 million for the Giants.
He's just slightly under what we're paying to Darius Tony and there are two completely different players at two different parts of the road of their career where john ross is looking to make sure that he can continue in the NFL and show that blazing speed that he came out of college with him, was drafted top 10 in the, in the NFL uh, you know, originally for seeing to Darius Tony at those numbers makes me excited for a couple of different reasons.
One great to get him in, get him signed.
I know that there's different like rookie scales that these guys sign that.
So it's not a huge surprise to see what he's, what he's being paid, but it's just nice to know that we have him locked in for these four years and knowing that we're still figuring out what Daniel jones is gonna be and if we have to pay him where Sichuan Barkley is going to come back from his knee injury and how we need to pay him, there may be some guys that we have to pay upfront.
The good news is we have to Darius Under contract for four years before we would have the franchise tag more work a deal out.
It gives us that flexibility that if he comes up and becomes a stud and he is the type of playmaker, I won't say that he is going to be Tyree kill, but if he if he can bring some kind of impact, even 80% of what Tyree, does.
then it's money well spent and it allows us to lock up the other guys before his contract comes up.
And you know, speaking about the comparison, right devante smith, we all know the eyes are gonna be on him because he was taken ahead of us are selection 11 before the trading etcetera.
Just over 20 million is his rookie contract.
Four year deal reported with the eagles.
So when you talk about value, right, okay, listen, we're not worried about it when we get into the season.
But when you talk about value on investment, it will be interesting how these stats play out for both of these receivers and then saying, well we did it at, you know, 60% of the cost that it took you to get your player at the number 11 spot, number 10 spot and a first round pick.
Just let me just throw that in there and a first round pick.
So like, you know, in a vacuum, if you were to put Devonta smith, Za'Darius Tony their contracts where he, you know, there is someone making less than Devon smith and you said, oh, guess what? You may have A top 10 potential pick in next year's draft if you take this contract, which one would people pick? To me, it would seem like a no brainer.
The other bonus about this too is not a, not a hefty price tag on his rookie deal.
Four years under control, you still have entering your number three Darius Slayton, fifth round pick, not a lot of money being spent there, you know that sterling Shepard will see how he plays out this season and what happens to him long term.
But all of a sudden spending a lot of money obviously in free agency on a player like Kenny Golladay becomes a lot more palatable when you look at the receiving corps as a whole and where your dollars add up and knowing that shepherds money if you need it to, can come off the books and you can start to allocate it into other positions of need on that matter.
This wide receiving corps.
Now adding to Darius Tony suddenly looks like I think what some people thought it could have been going into last year.
Talk to me about this wide receiving corps and where they rank certainly getting a little bit more respect I think coming into the season than joe judges.
Yeah, so we we talk about pro football focus a lot on this podcast just because they put out a ton of rankings and and they have a lot of different metrics and ****ytics behind them, which is great.
Sometimes you can take them with a grain of salt.
Other times it's it's important to note.
So they just did an updated wide receiving rankings of the core group for each individual team in the NFL And Adam We were very talked of podcast so I won't put you on the spot.
The New York Giants finished number 11 In this grouping in terms of where we think the town is.
And so, you know, initial thoughts before I get into who's in the top 10, does that feel like, you know, if if we do the, you know, too hot, too cold? Just right.
Where do you think that represents the Giants Wide receiving corps? I think it's just right to maybe even, maybe even a little too hot.
But what I mean by that is it's it's very interesting when you're talking about year three for 1/5 round pick in Slaten, when you're talking about a guy coming off injuries like sterling Shepard, This is the, I think obviously the tremendous, tremendous punch value of getting Kenny Golladay.
And then I also think it is, I think it's how people look at cod Arrius Tony and what his value is as a rookie coming to the NFL, we heard some scouts talk about arguably could have been considered the best wide receiver after that elite tier at the very top of the draft, that we talked about.
Two or maybe three players.
And some scouts have said they would have taken him over a Devante smith if it was like for like.
So I I think that that's where this big buoy comes from, is what we did in free agency and what we did in the draft.
And then book ended with those two guys in between a prior to prior draft picks obviously.
But one guy, maybe at the end of his 10 year and one guy just getting into that rhythm.
Okay, so I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I think I think it's about right.
Um, What I wanted to do is there's a couple of teams in front of the Giants that I was surprised about.
I wasn't surprised with the top five, which I'll go through very quickly.
The Tampa bay buccaneers.
Number one, obvious reasons.
You have Godwin, you've got mike Evans, cowboys.
Number two.
They have a three headed monster, you got the chiefs, they consider Travis Kelsey count in that group and the buffalo bills and the Minnesota Vikings with digs and uh miso begins with jefferson and dealing Now where I think it's pretty interesting when you compare the giants to a couple other teams in the top 10.
I'm going to name two.
One is, Number six is the Denver Broncos and # nine is the Miami Dolphins.
So there, you know the Denver Broncos being ranked number six seems very high to me now.
A lot of it can be towards the quarterback play that they had in the field, not being able to show the talents that they have, but let me just run down Denver first at number number six and their three headed monster is cordless, sudden sudden jerry judy and KJ Hamler, that is their lineup now when I hear that and I think Kenny, Golladay, sterling, Shepard, LaDarius Tony, I don't know.
Do you feel like there's a comparison there or do you feel like no Jerry Judy is a stud like Courtland son.
It has been a couple of years even though he's had injuries like where do you go with the Broncos 1st? Yeah, I think, I mean listen, we know we know what jerry judy can be right.
I think we all agree he's an elite young talent, going to be a stud in this league for a long time.
The interesting one as I pulled up those sudden stats like you said, didn't play last year, right.
Just one game play the year prior.
Full 16, 72 receptions, 124 targets, 1100 yards, six touchdowns.
It's a really nice stat line, but it's it's it's one year, right? So I guess you can say it elevates that wide receiving corps because of the troubles they've had at quarterback and he still put up really nice numbers a couple of seasons ago.
So, you know, we've had this impending fear of Aaron Rodgers maybe landing in Denver.
I'd be very curious to see What these numbers look like if you plug in a top 10 quarterback with them.
So suddenly the guy that I think maybe doesn't have the same name cachet that other receivers around the league do, but probably deserves a little bit more respect and I'll be interested to see coming off injury.
I think you can show up and show out this year, but you throw in Hamler into the mix there with them.
It's a nice, it's a very nice, very strong wide receiver corps.
I don't know how far back I might pull them, but I think six might be a couple of spots too high for them.
So they them and the Giants maybe should feel a little bit closer together than five positions apart.
Right, right.
That's that's my first inclination is like they have some good pieces there and they're basically saying that the quarterback play has really dragged them down so that that is a challenge for them.
But again, adam I'll touch on the next one.
After this point they talk about the quarterback play there yet.
A lot of places have Daniel jones ranked as like the 27th quarterback.
So like you can't have it both ways.
You can't say well Denver really struggled with their quarterback play and then you look at Darius Tony Kenny, Golladay, sterling Shepard, Darius Layton and have Daniel Jones Rank 27th and say, Well, no, there there are 11.
They're a good bunch for like they had Daniel Jones.
It's like, no, it doesn't work like that.
You can't, you can't excuse the quarterback play for the broncos and then just say like, well we didn't really take into account daniel jones for the Giants.
And then the tricky part is like we talked about sterling Shepard and Darius Slayton specifically who are on this roster last year.
Remember separation was a big issue for these wide receivers.
So that's a component over where you go. Well, it doesn't matter.
Good, good quarterback play, bad quarterback play.
There's elements of these receivers games that we can look at and say they pull them back to the pack as opposed to Hamler and Sutton and judy where you go.
These are all dynamic playmakers.
They've all shown that they can do some things in different areas of the field, including stretching it a little bit and getting out up ahead of that coverage.
So again, I'm fine with it.
And then, you know, it's a little bit of the unknown even with gala coming off injury as well.
That, that's why I think the Giants find themselves a little shuffle back.
Listen, it was just curious that there are five spots different.
If, if we're talking about splitting hairs between one or two spots, I would understand it just seemed really high.
Um, the other team that I think is noteworthy and maybe I'm the only one that thinks this is noteworthy is the Miami dolphins where you yes, you know here, okay, I'll let you make your case, but I'll just, I'll jump in and say they should be higher.
They should be closer, they should be closer than further to the top.
When you talk about a team that drafted, Jalen waddle, brought in, will fuller now again, whatever is going to happen with him, you know, had his suspensions last year.
But he's, we all know he's dynamic when he's on the field and then Devante Parker, who is the big receiver that you want to have and you've just needed these complementary pieces around him to really unlock his game even further.
Yeah, so so you named the three big wide receivers for the dolphins, their ninth and their three are Devante Parker.
Um Can I still uh will fuller and Jaylen waddle who, who they drafted in? My only argument is like, okay if they're, if they're discounting Canarias Tony a little bit in these rankings by putting the Giants at 11 and you're kind of saying they're getting disrespected a little bit like Kenny, Kenny Golladay is the most established of all of the wide receivers of both the broncos and the dolphins and the Giants.
When we think about who said the most yards and touchdowns.
Devante Parker has been a guy who finally is starting to get it.
You know, he had flashes of promise and everyone thought he was going to be the guy, he's slowly starting to build into that, but like Will Fuller has been hurt half his career and like, yes, he's a burner that can get, can get there.
But everyone's knock is like, yeah, okay, that's great that you get them for six games.
And like, so to put him in this upper echelon category when you know, you only get a third of the season from him and then Gillian Waddell, who's coming off a big leg injury at Alabama obviously is a star to me, I'm just wondering how everyone is looking at this wide receiving corps and saying it's better than the Giants, but how Denver is three spots ahead of them and five spots ahead of the Giants.
Like none of this computes to me in terms of like how we actually get to these numbers, we'll see.
I think if I want to get into the minds of it, I would say that when they look at the new york football giants, they look at very slightly say nice, you know, good, not good, not great, he's a piece.
And if you're talking about the big three, right, let's put it that way to you, probably say it's holiday, it's shepherd and it's Tony.
So let's even limited to those three.
You're talking about shepherd coming off of injury.
I might, I might make the case that they're actually elevating the Giants hire based on to Darius Tony's upside as a rookie and the addition of Kenny Golladay as opposed to maybe feeling like they're being disrespected in this group because again, it's almost a will fuller piece I'd say right shepherd is kind of like that injuries on and off the field when he's there.
Yes, it's great.
But can he stay healthy? So I, you know, inside of this group, I wonder how much they take into account injuries like with Jalen waddle coming out of college there obviously.
But every one of these groups and even include the Denver broncos that we're talking about, every one of them has some injury question with one of the players and then maybe it's the QB tie in.
And I may be like for like I would say if you took Aaron Rodgers and put him on each one of these three teams with those three receivers on those respective teams, where is Aaron Rodgers going to have the best year? I mean that's a great question.
I think I posed, I posed that in a way like Andy was going to have a definitive immediate response.
No supposed to it's actually, it's supposed that is that is a very difficult question to answer.
Like each of them brings their own things.
I think to Darius Tony adds a whole different dimension to the offense that when we talk about the other two teams, we talked about the dolphins and when we talk, we talked about the broncos, they don't have that type of wide receiver in their room.
So like that changes things for me a little bit.
But adam the only other team that I think in the top 10 that could be an argument is number seven with the san Francisco 49 ers, you've got Deebo, Samuel, Brandon, Aiyuk and who's there? Number three.
Do you have any idea what number three is? The top of? My brain is not coming to me. I should know it though.
They have a good number three.
It's Richie James who is, who is a decent player.
He's a good player.
But also like you kind of look at that and say devo is a beast.
He's really good.
You know, it looks like he could be a very high number two wide receiver.
But like When I look at the top 10 and I think about who has the best starting, number one wide receiver, you got the Bucks, cowboys chiefs and Bills.
We can all agree that they have number ones that are better than Kenny Golladay, Like we can agree with that, you know, stefon diggs is, has become otherworldly with josh Allen.
You know, Justin jefferson looks like he's coming into his own and they have adam feeling when you go to number six and you go to the broncos and you go to the 49 ers even the ranch with cup in woods, you know, the dolphins have Devante parker, like are there any of their number one wide receivers? Head and shoulders above Kenny Golladay when Kenny holiday is healthy and has a competent quarterback throwing in the ball and that's why that's why I think this comes down to the proof in the proverbial pudding of Kenny Golladay off injury coming back and re establishing himself.
Same thing for sterling Shepard, you even throw in ca Darius Tony and what is he going to be in his rookie campaign? Right.
I think that there are question marks there in terms of, of where are these players going to be at these points of their careers? Whereas a lot of these other spots you'd at least on paper say, hey, exciting, dynamic established guarantee.
You mentioned the rams.
I think that that's a team and there's injuries there too for them.
But when you look at them, they have, I think a great collection of maybe no true elite number one number ones, but they got a bunch of guys.
Here you go boy man, I take any, any one of them and feel like overly called a yeah, such a high number two, right? Like we have three twos instead of a 123 and you go, yeah.
And that's darn dangerous when you get on the field with them on a week to week basis.
So you know, listen that being the case, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I think 11 again, going back to last offseason, some people were high on what the Giants offense could be.
This once again ties back into the play of daniel jones and how he unlocks all of these talents because it's always going to come down to, hey, he was open.
Did you hit him? Hey, he was open.
Did you have time to throw it? Right.
Those are the things that are going to kind of unfold the stats for the new york football Giants and dictate whether or not 11 was too high to lower maybe right in the sweet spot.
I'm not disgusted by it.
I think any time we talk about the Giants at any position on this roster heading into the season with all the improvements.
If you're talking top 15, then that's something we should be able to hang our hat on with a little bit of confidence about where they can go.
And incidentally Top 15 might not be high enough friends because the last little footnote that I wanted to get out the door here on is of course the cornerback room, we know the Giants two years ago went ahead and got themselves in the offseason.
A heck of a player in James Bradberry.
Now this past off season they went ahead and brought in Adoree Jackson.
What I really, I am excited about and you talk, you mentioned pro football focus.
There are things that you need to take with a grain of salt, like how they rate these players out and that's fine.
But coming into the year, they ranked Bradbury 5th Cornerback in the NFL and they had One adoree Jackson 12th overall.
So we got two guys in the top 15, 1 of the top one of the top five obviously.
But what I really found fascinating was the speculation around the Giants.
Waiting in the offseason, Adoree Jackson was still out there.
Then when you hear he's coming in, you think, oh maybe we're going to get kind of a bargain deal on this guy wasn't a bargain.
You paid top dollar for him, but off of injury has a falling out.
The Tennessee titans can't afford to bring him back.
Whatever the case may be.
The really nice numbers that excited me about, uh, sorry about Dorey Jackson is that this is a guy that played too.
So we talk about some of those, those metrics.
Jackson had 17.
4% forced in completion rate in 11 games during the 2019 season campaign.
That was 12th overall in the league.
He surrendered just one touchdown in 390 coverage snaps that season.
That's the last season.
He was playing.
Obviously missing the year prior in 2017 as a young up and coming quarterback on passes of 20 plus yards downfield among 51 targets.
He allowed just 14 receptions while also putting up 18 forced incompletions, which was second most in the NFL.
All of these numbers, including a pro football focus grade, which is a skewed perspective, perhaps gave him a coverage grade of 85 from 2017 to 2019 with 29 pass breakups.
That's the one thing you want to throw it out because it's, you know, throw it in or throw it out for yourself.
But the stats about incompletions and downfield percentages and all of those numbers, The only thing holding people back from talking about this secondary is being a top three potentially is the premise that he was hurt and can he come back and be healthy? Those numbers right there.
And the rankings of our two starting cornerbacks really makes me look at this defensive unit and say we may have lost Alvin Tomlinson, we made sure we brought back Leonard Williams.
These outside studs are two very dangerous weapons and in the fact that we drafted Aaron Robinson, Darius Williams, we have Isaac yet um who progressed and got better and more comfortable in the offense.
You have Julian love that can piecemeal things, you have Darnay Holmes.
So we drafted last year, this defensive back room that the Giants have is deep and if you told me going into last offseason that the defensive back room of the new york, Giants was going to be one of their strengths, if not one of the tops in the league, I would have told you that you were crazy.
And now here we sit adam we have to top 15 type cornerbacks when healthy, We have guys that got plenty of experience last year that can fill into these roles if there is an injury and we have this depth and versatility, especially when you get into the secondary in the safeties and how we can move people around with people like Peppers and Love and Mckinney, like our secondary is the strength of this team, which is unfathomable 16 months ago that now the Giants really feel like they're in this position and I'll bring it back to one thing, it's like looking back a year ago when they talked about the weapons that we had on offense, a lot of like ESPN and other places had us top five, top six in offense and then our offense fluttered out in, our defense is supposed to be terrible.
Look at it.
This year we flipped the script completely, We're 11th, we've moved back even though we made all, these additions on offense.
our defensive backs in, our secondary are going to be a strength of this team.
And that makes me excited.
And as they say, folks, at the end of the day, we talked about this all off season, we talked about it in free agency and in the draft it's about raising the floor.
So when Andy says that flip flop of expectations and where, where the offense or defense is going to be, guess what? Maybe the offense is going to look different this year relative to last year and the upfront pressure that we were trying to get through our defensive front there without Tomlinson now obviously, but it's not gonna, it's not gonna fall off the way the offense fell off from expectations.
And if the floor is now risen on that side of the ball as well, if Daniel jones can get some good things done for us under center all of a sudden we're elevating the play of this entire team and really starting to turn that corner.
We said it a lot and I'm going to continue to bang that drum.
That's what this is about.
Let's get around that bend and really start to re establish ourselves as a dangerous team in the NFL.
The hard part for me is that I can't figure out which way everyone's going here.
They're praising positions, they're praising units, we got guys ranked in the top 10, the top five, the top 12, the wide receiving corps.
And then they say joe judge sucks.
And with the office of the team isn't going to be good and were predicted to finish third in the division.
Which way is it supposed to go? Andy it's like Michael scott in the office.
When he looked at Janet's like snip snap, snip snap, snip snap.
He doesn't know which way he's supposed to handle things.
And that's to me, the new york giants media, they have no idea which way to go.
They're all trying to figure it out.
Just like Michael scott is before the Dundee gets thrown at his beautiful flat screen tv.
Nothing could have summed it up better.
My friends, you can of course follow the podcast over on social media at one giant podcast.
You can subscribe to the podcast wherever you get it and feel free.
Go over to Youtube where we put out usually live three days a week, monday, Wednesday and friday mornings when we're recording, subscribe over there as well.
So we can continue to build his conglomerate that we refer to as O G.
P until the next time.
Friends enjoy the weekend and as Andy Markowitz wants, he needs and he demands that, you know, as always, let's go Big blue.


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