SportsCastr - One Giant Podcast - Friday Update: Player Opt-Outs, Giant Coaching Staff and Edelman not being a HOF
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Podcast

One Giant Podcast

with Adam Armbrecht & Andy Mackiewicz

Adam Armbrecht@OneGiantPodcast

“One Giant Podcast” is a SportsCastr Featured Podcast all about the 4-time Super Bowl champion New York football Giants. Your hosts, Adam Armbrecht and Andy Mackiewicz balance the emotional roller coaster that is being a fan of Big Blue with cold hard numbers and analytics to give any Giants fan an expert’s perspective on their team.

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Description

It's a fun Friday show where the guys talk Joe Judge and the biggest coaching staff in franchise history, the release of Ryan Lewis and the weird Julian Edelman/Eli Manning HOP debate that stirred up on social media.

Transcript

00:00:14
Mhm.
00:00:16
Yeah.
00:00:17
Yeah.
00:00:19
Mhm.
00:00:20
And as always friends on a friday it's the O. G.
00:00:24
P.
00:00:25
One giant podcast where I'm adam arm break joined as always by the healthy, the wealthy, the wise Mr Andrew Mca wits.
00:00:32
I am excited that it's friday adam getting ready for the weekend.
00:00:37
What are the big plans that you got going on? I may go back if once upon a time here if you listen to a monday podcast you heard that I had returned from the cabin in the woods.
00:00:48
Not like a horror film like a family cabin we have on the Delaware.
00:00:51
I may take another run back up where we are.
00:00:54
We are surging here's how you handle a cabin And this is about a 15 x 20 essentially uninsulated box in the middle of the woods.
00:01:01
But what you want to do is wait about 20 years don't really maintain anything.
00:01:06
And then one season with all your might really start to to surge and make some make some improvements to the property.
00:01:12
So there's there's some there's some work to get done up there.
00:01:15
It's sunny and beautiful and so I'm hoping maybe I catch one more day of of fun in the sun over the weekend.
00:01:20
How about yourself sir? I'm just hanging out around the house.
00:01:23
Um was was out and about a little bit um last weekend.
00:01:27
So it's gonna be a little rest and relaxation around with the fam this weekend, which is much, much needed.
00:01:32
But I'm curious to hear about your Blair Witch project situation going on, you know, at the cabin.
00:01:38
So you gotta keep me updated.
00:01:39
Give me text over the weekend for proof of life. Yeah.
00:01:44
Everyone always says when I, when I get in the car and I said I'm driving off into the woods, they go, yeah, but you're taking your phone with you, right.
00:01:49
I mean we're, we have that life beacon on you that always beeps every 15 minutes just so we know, yeah, they'll be, they'll be references and checkpoints.
00:01:56
We are of course live on Youtube as well, my friend.
00:01:59
So hopefully you've been enjoying us over there.
00:02:01
Some of the bonus content beyond the podcast, like the mock draft that I've been doing or player profiles over the weekend.
00:02:07
Regardless of if I'm in the woods or not, I'm going to dive into another position.
00:02:11
Talk about value in the middle rounds.
00:02:12
We did wide receivers last week.
00:02:14
We're probably getting, I think edge rushers makes the most sense here at this spot.
00:02:18
So be sure to stay tuned for that as well.
00:02:20
But right now we'll run through some quick news and notes around the new york football giants and then get into some, some other topics that are kind of not only giant centric, but also NFL focused as well because it impacts a lot of different teams.
00:02:33
But a couple of quick things were first off, Ryan Lewis gets released by the new york football Giants.
00:02:39
When we look at the depth chart here for them, we we've gone over this is the secondary as a whole, but if we stay focused solely in the DB room, Bradbury Jackson Darnay Holmes.
00:02:49
Yeah, Adam who had that adjusted contract, SAM Bill and then Milton and Williams, the name, I didn't put in there.
00:02:55
That gets you up to seven, but then you throw in Julian love who's splitting time? It feels like between right DB and then also the safety position.
00:03:03
Does this indicate anything to you? Because a lot of those other contracts the Giants handed out were futures contracts and we know that which means you had an opportunity to potentially make the roster.
00:03:12
Um, what is it significant to you for a guy and Ryan Lewis that last year, maybe fans had a little bit more of a positive feeling about and thought maybe there was an upside there.
00:03:22
So the thing with Ryan Lewis is, you know, he was kind of bouncing on and off the roster just a little bit and um, you know, we, we don't, we don't always use profootballfocus grades to be indicative of where they were, but Ryan Lewis was a 41.
00:03:36
2, right? And so while while you thought not falling behind, not showing off in the media, part of the curve or he didn't want, he didn't want to show up James Bradberry.
00:03:45
That was the reason why, you know, um, and when you think about it really, the writing was on the wall for Ryan Lewis when yet um decided to take a pay cut and that pickup was was significant.
00:03:55
He chopped off a million dollars but picked up some guaranteed money, which basically signaled that the Giants were going to keep him around as that 3rd, 4th corner depending on what was going on.
00:04:04
Little did we know that Adoree Jackson was going to come into the fold as well to really solidify the cornerback room.
00:04:10
It just starts getting pretty crowded at that point And we talk about a guy that's been kind of a practice squad on and off low low scores, you know, maybe saw some promise.
00:04:19
It makes sense that that kind of the way from released him could see him potentially on the practice squad if he doesn't get picked up by somebody else.
00:04:25
But it goes to show that that cornerback room right now is pretty jam packed with players that the Giants see a little bit more promise than someone like Ryan Lewis every time.
00:04:34
And I hope that Ryan Lewis finds another spot if it's not back with the practice squad, potentially, as you say, every time a cornerback gets cut, that isn't named Sam Bill, I get excited, you know what I mean? There's there's still that I still get that good old fashioned feeling of of what Sam Bill could be and maybe, you know, in a lot of ways you adam should have taken over that type of mentality or Darnay Holmes, so I I'm excited about a young player, but there's something about Sam Bill, I think go back to an Aaron ross who, you know, for whatever he was or wasn't he flashed for some couple of seasons and then kind of fizzled out.
00:05:06
But there's a physical look that a cornerback has that when I see them regardless of who they are, regardless what team is gonna go that looks like a good corner.
00:05:15
That's what Sam Bill looks like to me.
00:05:17
I don't know for sure if he's capable of, you know, producing.
00:05:20
We saw him a little bit at the back end of the previous season when we still had the andre baker on the roster, right? And these guys seem like they were finding a little bit of a rhythm and then the opt out.
00:05:29
So I'm very curious to see how Sam Bill looks in this offseason when we finally get underway with it and then really where he fits in the hierarchy, right? If you start to see his name inching up a depth chart, that's something I would still be excited about because he still has a young corner for us. Yeah.
00:05:46
It's funny because I kind of thought it was more related to yet him than I thought it was Bill, but you're probably right.
00:05:51
I mean, you know Isaac was cornerback number two for quite a bit so maybe there was not as much risk with him being taken off the roster.
00:06:00
I think once he brought his cap it down it was a given that he was going to be there based on how he showed in the last few games of the season.
00:06:06
Sam Bill after opting out is kind of an unknown commodity right now.
00:06:10
Like how is he going to play? We talk in the same breath about Nate solder like how is he going to look? Well Samuel's younger but we still haven't seen what he's going to be capable of.
00:06:19
You have to think that some of the offseason type stuff, maybe they've had conversations with people, they've seen him, you know, some of the coaches have been working with him, they must like what they, what they see from him to be able to let someone like Ryan Lewis who did have some different spot starts for the Giants, they just let him go.
00:06:34
I know these, maybe the footnote moves because who's going to getting big reps, but as you start to improve your team through free agency, like the Giants did, then the depth players on this roster do become important because there's going to be a key, you know, snap here or a key special teams play there that matters.
00:06:49
And how this roster fills out is important.
00:06:51
Speaking of filling things out, how many members do you think are on the new york Football Giants coaching staff? Who if I had to guess, I'm going to guess uh 27 Wow.
00:07:06
And you know what, that's actually high.
00:07:08
But here's what's interesting, 25 is the number for the New York football Giants.
00:07:13
It'll be the largest coaching staff they've ever had in their franchise history.
00:07:17
Joe judge had 22 members of the staff last year and they went through a couple other teams here around the league.
00:07:23
But You know, for staff that go as low as 20, sometimes this staff is so big now that Joe judge has even introduced a chief of staff, so which is, you know, basically a quality control, position control and then the overall the man with the plan.
00:07:37
And I will say this may seem, and it is just a footnote for us.
00:07:41
But what I like about it is we go back to, you know, last year and the difficulties with Colombo and firing him, they continue to bring in as joe Judge had called for in his press conference, teachers, right? That's what they want here.
00:07:53
They have a guy now taking over the offensive line who's going to be a 14 year experience though, None at the NFL level for them.
00:08:02
And then you think about it, I don't want to hear the chief of staff named correct.
00:08:05
It's Ryan Hollerin will be the chief of staff for this team overall.
00:08:10
Um, and then the offensive line coach, if I have it correctly, I don't want to miss out here after having, you know, as we know here, uh, God moves thanks because I'm not gonna, once the guy has gone from the team, I'm not going to remember the name, I'm not remember the name anymore.
00:08:25
Oh Sale is going to be the offensive line coordinator for the Giants.
00:08:29
No NFL experience, but college experience and that kind of leans into the sense of college teaching young players, right, developing mind.
00:08:37
So, uh, I'm a fan of this because I don't think there there should never be a limitation to how many teachers you have around these players, right? And the more that you can kind of, I think compartmentalize a layer deeper into layer deeper.
00:08:52
So you can say there's gonna be our offensive line coach.
00:08:55
But then we have a conditioning coach or then we say inside of the offensive line room.
00:08:59
We also want guys that are specializing on the interior and then guys that are working with the tackles, guys that are working with the safeties versus working with the cornerbacks.
00:09:06
So this, this excites me because I think that it it continues to show joe judges control and voice within the organization as he's expanding this staff to hopefully support the players and the season as best he can.
00:09:19
So I actually go a different route with this and it's twofold.
00:09:23
Um, the first is I look at it as joe judge paying it forward where he learned under people like Nick Saban and Bill Belichick and he's trying to say those experiences were invalid like they were priceless to him.
00:09:39
Right? And so what he's thinking is if I can bring in more smart minds too, absorb how the game is, they're going to be better prepared to be head coaches in the future.
00:09:49
I got that opportunity in tutelage from some of the all time greats.
00:09:52
I think I need to be, you know, I owe it to other people to be able to do this.
00:09:56
So like you said, there's a lot of guys that are coming in with just college experience, he's extending that olive branch.
00:10:01
Like it was given to him to be able to bring in more people to be able to get that opportunity.
00:10:06
So that, that was the first thing that I thought, you know, oddly enough, quick pause before you make your second point, I like that a lot better.
00:10:11
Let's go with that.
00:10:12
The one giant podcast official stances is joe judge pays it forward and gives other coaches opportunities.
00:10:18
I mean I think they'll have value and they'll be, they'll be teaching as well.
00:10:21
But that, yeah, that's way stronger.
00:10:22
Okay, that's Perfect.
00:10:24
The 2nd 1 is that I think Joe judge is really smart at delegation and putting faith in other coaches around him as well.
00:10:34
You know, coming from a special teams background, he's not saying I need to run plays as the offensive coordinator or I need to be the special teams coach because I special I did that in New England for so many years.
00:10:46
I don't need to be the wide receivers coach.
00:10:47
Like he's not saying that like he needs to beat actively involved in any of them.
00:10:53
He's the ceo he is the guy that has oversight.
00:10:56
He's the guy that gets on the microphone is like, we would never lay down like the philadelphia eagles didn't like that's the type of guy he is, he doesn't need to call plays on either side of the ball.
00:11:05
Like and I like that I want a head coach that has his hand a little bit and everything and has a pulse on all of the different groups, whether it's special teams offense or defense as opposed to on the G. M. I.
00:11:19
You know, draft players, I trade players like Bill O brien, I call offensive players on the defensive court like no, do what you're good at the the Ceo and and inspire people.
00:11:29
Yeah, they always talk about that, right? I mean there's been a shift about, you know, more and more head coach gets referred to as that Ceo you have to manage all these different parts.
00:11:37
So when you see someone like joe judge able to lean into that role and trust those around him to me that's a positive as well.
00:11:44
And even, you know, in the big picture, hey offensive coordinators are going to come and go, defensive coordinator are gonna come and go.
00:11:50
So if you can look out into the landscape and know that you have these resources to pulling coaches from and maybe out of this expanded staff, someone bubbles up, right.
00:11:59
You know, in another year or two of Jason Garrett gets another head coaching job, You have someone in the pipeline that you want to take over.
00:12:04
So it's all positive and that's just something that I found interesting going from year one to year two for judge because it does mean, hey, I saw an opportunity here, whether it is to pay it forward or to provide more minds, supporting our team on Sundays as the season gets underway.
00:12:21
The other piece that we want to cover here as far as this news and notes, and that's going to be the Giants players opting out of the voluntary workouts.
00:12:28
This is now spreading across the league.
00:12:30
A number of teams are involved in it.
00:12:34
The question for me is, and uh, this isn't to be dismissive about the seriousness of COVID-19 because that's essentially the premise of why it's, it's still running rampant.
00:12:42
There's different variants happening in New York City as well as we heard reported, most players and people are starting to get vaccinated, which is a great thing.
00:12:50
Do you think that this is a direct 1 to 1 the covid concerns and that's why they're opting out or is this the response to the thing that was put to a vote and accepted by the players union, But the players didn't really want to be doing, which is playing a 17th game.
00:13:07
So now the players collectively are finding a way these are voluntary.
00:13:12
So there's there's no, you know, penalty or punishment for it though.
00:13:16
It's kind of a voluntary by, you know, NFL teams there.
00:13:20
Exactly, yeah, voluntary.
00:13:22
So we'll see you there on monday and we're looking forward to it.
00:13:24
Do you think that there's there's a little bit of two sides to this? Or can it just be that? Because I I just don't see it if it was mandatory, I don't think that you'd hear players pushing back on. This is just an opportunity.
00:13:36
Maybe send a little bit of a message about how we deal about the changing schedule and landscape for the for the NFL coming to the season.
00:13:44
The Cleveland browns came out with a unified message as well that said, hey, the virtual offseason program really was more our speed, to be honest with you.
00:13:52
A lot of support for the Virtual.
00:13:55
Yeah, they're like, it was great.
00:13:57
We were more mentally and physically ready for the season by doing things on our own.
00:14:01
And I think this used I think this was a bigger deal 15, 20 years ago when like you didn't really know what players were doing in the off season now.
00:14:12
It's like all these guys have their own personal trainers.
00:14:14
All these guys, like half the Giants are down in Miami like the house of athletes like working out with Brandon Marshall and Landon Collins and all these other people.
00:14:22
Like it's not like these guys aren't getting the reps and they all have their own personal trainers and like guys off to the side that they work out with.
00:14:29
Like to me it's it's not really a big deal.
00:14:31
I think they just don't want to have to like fly back to a certain place and sit in a dorm and like hang out with people that they're going to be spending the next 89 months with anyway.
00:14:40
So uh listen the covid situation is still real.
00:14:44
It is um you know the reason why everyone is opting out of these voluntary workouts? The team wants to get them in the building as quickly as possible to be able to work with them and coach them up.
00:14:56
But at the end of the day I don't really think this is a big deal.
00:14:59
And like, it's not like the players are just sitting at home gaining £50,, like they're all working out on their own.
00:15:04
But you know, a bunch of people are with Daniel Johnson in Arizona, like as we speak.
00:15:08
So to me, not really a big deal.
00:15:11
I get it.
00:15:12
The players like, okay, this is one time we could chip away at something that you're forcing us to do and we don't have to do it.
00:15:17
Yeah, that's my general sentiment too.
00:15:18
And like you said, I think if you're the NFL, you probably don't worry as much about this or, and specifically individual teams because now you're saying, we went through the virtual set up last year so we know that we can do that.
00:15:28
We can all get together and go over some over some things, you know, if we want to and then, like you say, everyone is also working out together.
00:15:35
So, uh and if you think about this season, in terms of september all the way through february in the Super Bowl, then you have a couple extra months in the off season for training camp.
00:15:43
Like, you know, if you start going now, like you said, okay, so now we're 10 months, you know, we're 10 months into this project of playing NFL football.
00:15:51
And I think that because of the reduction in two days and all those kind of things, the wear and tear piece of this, i it still does have an impact, right? So short of, I think certain teams might like it, right, Certain teams might like getting the voluntary workouts to get a sniff of young players back in roster guys and get a little bit of a sense of some guys that may make special team spots or not.
00:16:13
That's probably the biggest drawback for NFL teams is not seeing young players that maybe you want to know.
00:16:20
And for example, a Nate soldier right, wouldn't you like to get him in a voluntary workout just to kind of see where the state of that veteran players game is.
00:16:27
I think little things like that might hurt.
00:16:29
But overall, I don't think teams are too worried about this.
00:16:32
Well, the other piece of this adam is that, and I forget where I heard this, but someone brought up a good point about how the agents may dictate a lot of what's going on here because if you represent a guy that is a fringe roster guy or like may or may not make it has been undrafted, has bounced around practice squads and you have an opportunity to show up and show out.
00:16:54
Like that could be the difference between you making the roster or not.
00:16:57
If you're like a seasoned grizzle that you're like, I want to just hang out in southern California and like swim all day and work out at the beach.
00:17:04
That sounds way better than being like in upstate new york where it's like rainy drizzly and I'm sitting in like a sienna dorm room or something like that doesn't appeal to me at all.
00:17:13
But like if you're a fringe guy on the roster, if you're if you're an Austin Mack or a derrick, Dylan for the Giants whose like bounced around practice squad, will you make the roster or not? Like this is this is your opportunity.
00:17:24
But again the players are trying to put a united front together but in the background, the agents are like, man, you should seriously consider going there and showing up for these coaches because it will only benefit you when it comes to that final roster spot, whether or not they got that extra look at you.
00:17:40
Yeah, it's always interesting when you talk about veterans, right, the big names that we know about the NFL that come out against certain things and then the other 78% of the league that makes it up, right, guys that are back in roster players and trying to make those cuts and this, you know, for good or bad, this is a way that young players can potentially end up landing on other rosters, right? This could end up creating some player movement if you don't get as good a look and then maybe a, you know, the proverbial diamond in the rough shows up somewhere else.
00:18:08
So we'll see how it shakes out.
00:18:09
But overall, I don't find it to be too concerning.
00:18:12
And from that standpoint, I'm I am a player guy and I'm glad that the if that's how the giants collectively, we're feeling that they stood up, spoke out and uh, hey, enjoy your time in Miami, I'd rather be working in Miami in upstate new york, Let's let's put it that way.
00:18:24
Right.
00:18:25
Um, the other thing, so we mentioned Ryan Lewis getting cut And it's, it has brought this up, we talked about it last episode, I think we touched on it a little bit, but we didn't think there was, there was a lot to it.
00:18:35
But the certain and 11 bus seems to be at least getting some level of traction that it would be possible.
00:18:44
And I wanted to get your take on it because one of the things that may be over this weekend, I'm gonna run through, I had lined up side by side mock drafts that say, what happens if if you want to take, say Slater and waddle and Parsons and certain are there because they're tan just unto himself as a prospect is very highly regarded.
00:19:03
Now, fit wise, you could debate that for the Giants and signing adoree Jackson.
00:19:06
That's what we said.
00:19:07
When you line up those draft side by side, there's an impact hierarchy of what happens then in the 2nd, 3rd into the fourth round.
00:19:16
Do you see, I mean, is there any world to you where certain has real legs here? Is that, you know, if you look at them and let's even avoid that multi draft scenario, What if Waddell and certain are both gone? I'm sorry Waddell and Parsons are both gone. Right.
00:19:35
What if it's certain and Slater, what is Slater is gone And Parsons is gone? If the giants can't trade down, I'll put it into into an example that would force your hand to make a difficult choice.
00:19:44
What if it's Waddell and certain? Those are the two options at 11 and you can't trade down? Would you go certain in that scenario or would you lean into what so many fans would probably scream at us right now for? Well you have to take waddle.
00:19:57
He's the weapon.
00:19:59
I would go with waddle in that position.
00:20:02
And and the reason why it is a few different things.
00:20:06
It's tough to impact art Stapleton.
00:20:07
Who knows the Giants more than almost anybody was on this yesterday, batting fans away.
00:20:12
Uh, basically saying, Why can't you take certain at 11? Like We just take the best player.
00:20:19
We can figure it out.
00:20:20
Like things change one injury happens next year.
00:20:23
Will the same players beyond the roster? People could get cut? What if 30 homes doesn't look good? Then we have we always need quarterbacks.
00:20:30
I mean obviously look at last year we couldn't find a number two cornerback to save our our lives.
00:20:35
We tried five different guys at cornerback number two.
00:20:38
After all the things that happened with the andre baker.
00:20:40
So I understand that position.
00:20:44
However, I just can't.
00:20:47
We talked about this at length, the best player available situation to me is just not understanding or reading the room like everyone says best player available.
00:20:56
And then we say, well, what if the best player on your board is Mac jones at 11? Are you supposed to take Mac jones? And they're like, no, no, no, no quarterbacks are different.
00:21:03
It's like, okay, what if uh running backs there? Well, no, no, no, no.
00:21:07
We we have sequin Barkley.
00:21:08
It's like, okay, so you're putting it well, yeah, what is the safety there? It's like, okay, so you're deciding to put in all these caveats of your best player available, which is changing the whole dynamic of what the best player available is.
00:21:21
I think that you need to use a little bit of best player available.
00:21:25
Plus need and marry the two of them.
00:21:28
The Giants need in the cornerback position is one of the lower ones.
00:21:31
It's like defensive tackle right now.
00:21:33
We don't really need it based on having dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams on that, on that defensive front.
00:21:38
We don't need a cornerback as badly as other positions.
00:21:41
To me, offensive line, anywhere across the offensive line would be helpful in any type of pressure and edge rusher are just far more important for the Giants.
00:21:51
And even if you have certain ranked a couple of spots higher than Slater, the need outweighs the best player available situation in that case well.
00:22:01
And this is you know, and I'll say the sacrilege thing, like I wouldn't want the Giants to take waddle in that spot. I would want them.
00:22:08
And I said can't trade back right, you have to do it.
00:22:10
I'd be, I'd be very interested in that spot.
00:22:13
I probably would do what you say and take waddle because it bolsters that wide receiver room.
00:22:17
But to your point when you're in the offseason, listen, the Giants can't predict that certain is going to be there at 11 or the waddle would be there at 11 or you know, or Slater or partially they don't know for sure with any definitive, you know, beyond any any doubt.
00:22:30
But that's why in free agency you say, well we need to check a couple of boxes.
00:22:34
It could have been an offensive lineman.
00:22:36
It could have been a wide receiver.
00:22:38
It could have been an edge rusher.
00:22:40
Right? They made the push for Floyd.
00:22:41
It didn't work out.
00:22:42
Once you check those two boxes, those, those positions have to move down your hierarchy board.
00:22:47
It's just as simple as that.
00:22:49
Right? So Would the giants objectively have taken certain at 11 if he was there straight up probably.
00:22:56
I think they would have loved it.
00:22:58
I think that he would have been as high on their board as any other position that they may have had commiserate with the talent that certain is supposed to bring to the NFL level.
00:23:06
Now that you've signed Adoree Jackson, it obvious obviously impacts it.
00:23:09
The only caveat that I would put into there would be if you wanted to make a case for first or tan would be to say you've got a three year deal for Adoree Jackson, you have Bradbury two years left on his three year deal.
00:23:22
So the short term long term peace right.
00:23:25
Adora Jackson's 25 by the end of his contract, he'll be 28.
00:23:29
So are you going to bring him back on another contract at that age? It's possible but not necessarily probable at the cornerback spot.
00:23:35
I don't see Bradbury coming back on a second contract because you start to fall off the cliff a little bit.
00:23:39
I think it's a one and done scenario.
00:23:41
So how are you preparing for the future at that position? So maybe that opens the door a little bit again in a in an ideal world.
00:23:50
I think the Giants would trade down from there if that's the best player available if waddles gone as well.
00:23:56
Mr Tan, I think there's a team out there in the mid teens and going towards 20 I would say Boy certain would really bolster our secondary right now.
00:24:05
We're willing to give a modest you know collection of picks to get up there to get him.
00:24:09
I mean the way I think about this adam is pretty simple.
00:24:12
You should always have an eye on the future but you need to talk about the roster and its current construction.
00:24:17
I'll give you a great example.
00:24:19
Look at the defensive line for the new york Giants.
00:24:21
If you rewind the clock three years ago, Leonard Williams, Dexter Lawrence and Danny Shelton are not on the roster, they're not anywhere to be found and like fast forward.
00:24:31
Three years later it's considered a strength of the Giants, Leonard Williams seems like he's one of the top defensive lineman in the in the entire NFL we just gave him a huge match contract.
00:24:40
Dexter Lawrence just looks like he is ascending to be one of the next Great Giants and Danny Shelton.
00:24:45
Run blocking metrics by, by all all accounts is off the charts like we, that wasn't part of the plan three years ago, we didn't have that as part of our situation.
00:24:55
Things changed so much in three years that I think you look at what you got this year and you look into next year, you make sure that your cap situations okay.
00:25:02
But I really think of the giants in 18 and 24 month span and what we need to do their um as opposed to three years out.
00:25:09
And so by the time two years rolls around and Bradbury's up again and the door, he's got one year left, they're gonna be there, you know, who knows what Darnay Holmes has done, who someone else may have been released.
00:25:19
Like there's so much time that goes through there that I think we look at this year and next year and think about how we can make this roster competitive this year to make the playoffs and then potentially compete for something greater than just winning the division next year.
00:25:32
That's fair.
00:25:33
And I think that's probably the way that most giants fans should look at the draft and should look at the 11th overall position at the end of the day.
00:25:42
Let's say we wanted to get into a little bit on the lighter side.
00:25:45
I think I I don't consider this to be uh, you know, break the Internet type of information and yet it seems to have lingered on.
00:25:55
Uh, Giants fans are, and I myself have said I stated my case, my opinion around eli Manning and his credentials for the Hall of Fame.
00:26:04
But Giants fans are definitely ready.
00:26:08
They're ready to assault when, when something comes up.
00:26:11
That would be an affront to the idea that that Eli Manning is debatable going to the Hall of Fame, one Julian Edelman retired from the NFL.
00:26:20
He suffered a knee injury last year.
00:26:22
It just limited him and ultimately he retired.
00:26:25
So then, of course, naturally, the only thing that you can do in any player in any sport at any time retires as say, are they going to the Hall of Fame? And the pretty straightforward answer is no for Edelman, in my opinion, he was he was a great wide receiver, great patriot.
00:26:40
And I think that obviously you expect your fan base to support you, but you can line him up against a lot of other receivers and basically find comparable numbers that nobody would be itching to put that guy into the Hall of Fame.
00:26:51
One of the best ones being, uh, someone had thrown out, what was it Heinz word, I think, what was a great comp that somebody put out and he didn't make it first ballot.
00:27:00
He's trying to work his way into the Hall of Fame.
00:27:01
So, you know, where do you, first of all, where do you stand on it and then we'll get into the Eli manning side of things, because that's where it ended up somehow.
00:27:10
Maybe it's the, you know, the Patriot giant connection at some point.
00:27:13
It was well, don't tell me Edelman's going in if eli Manning isn't worthy of a Hall of Fame ballot.
00:27:19
Yeah.
00:27:20
Listen, I mean, Julian Edelman, great patriot, embodied grit, toughness, did everything that they asked them.
00:27:29
You know, that's like sandpaper, right? He said, do your job kind of guy, right.
00:27:33
Love his toughness, love his tenacity, stepped up in some of the biggest moments, it's great.
00:27:39
He's he's like 260th in in touchdowns ever.
00:27:43
He's over 150th in yards ever.
00:27:46
And we're talking about like, not the hall of good, not the hall of great, we're talking about the hall of fame, like Tory whole can't even get in.
00:27:53
You talk about Hines Ward, like there's so many amazing guys that are just not getting in the Hall of Fame that have more yards, more touchdowns, yards per catch.
00:28:02
They literally have everything more than Julian Edelman.
00:28:05
Now, what I will say is Julian Edelman leads in the playoffs and that's where he made his number, his numbers, he's top two or three in yards.
00:28:14
Um you know, he has five touchdowns I believe, in the postseason.
00:28:17
He was, he was great and came up with some of the big time catches and that's how we will remember him.
00:28:22
It's fine to say that he was a good player and that he belongs in the Patriot Ring of Honor and he's not a Hall of Famer and that's not an indictment on him.
00:28:30
It's not a slight, he's a better football player than I would ever have been, but he's just not a Hall of Famer.
00:28:36
Yeah, I mean, that seems like the easy answer for, you know, for me again, I think when you see a guy make big plays and come up in big spots in the playoffs, that that that's what, that's what heightens Edelman's profile, right? And he came in at the time to the Patriots following up Wes Welker where everyone's like, oh, another Wes Welker like, hey, no, he was another level above Wes Welker and that's, that distinction is worth making, right? He ended up being was a 12 I think, 12 year career, you know, an incredibly valuable component to that.
00:29:05
But it isn't this automatic thing where just because you made some big plays, then it, you know, it automatically puts in the Hall of Famer just because you had some really good and I I have to go into the numbers really good playoff numbers.
00:29:18
Are they all time playoff numbers? Because if you can give me six year, six playoff runs where you were the absolute at the position, then maybe that does Swimming Hall of Fame.
00:29:28
The only drawback to that would be to say, well is, you know, Julio jones beholden to whether or not the Atlanta falcons make the playoffs every year to give them the opportunities to do that.
00:29:39
You know, NFL ends up being the ultimate team sport and also the ultimate individual ****ysis, right? You don't, you don't end up saying well again Eli Manning right? We want to, we always, we don't split hairs about his Hall of Fame career and whether or not he's worthy of it.
00:29:56
We say two super bowls to Super Bowl MVPs, you can look at the all time yardage and some of those other statistics that we think check the boxes for us.
00:30:04
But if we were on the fence about it, we wouldn't say well think about the lack of offensive lines that he played behind, the lack of talent.
00:30:11
If he had been in the playoffs, more those numbers will be even better.
00:30:14
You don't get to do that.
00:30:15
We don't get to say that if he had been in more playoffs, he could have had more runs.
00:30:18
All we can do is judge it on what he puts out on tape and based on that.
00:30:22
I think he's you know that Eli Manning is a Hall of Famer.
00:30:25
So you know, likewise, whether it's for element or any player, you can only go by what you have.
00:30:30
And I think it's only his playoff runs that heighten his Hall of Fame stature.
00:30:35
Yeah.
00:30:36
Listen, so the Eli manning pieces interesting.
00:30:38
Everyone keeps dragging Eli into this Edelman debate and I think it's I can understand why people are doing it, but it is unfair because there's there's one key piece of this that they're missing.
00:30:48
So everyone says, you look at Eli manning stats during the regular season and he was a very average quarterback, right? You look at his passing yards a game is right around 2 40 which is like league average.
00:31:01
His touchdown interception ratio was league average, if not worse.
00:31:05
His win percentage not very good considering as a 500 quarterback, his yards per attempt would be, I believe, the lowest ever to enter the Hall of Fame.
00:31:14
So there's a lot against Eli Manning and that's completely understandable.
00:31:18
And that's the knock against Julian Edelman being 250th and all these other different stat, like touchdowns and receptions, yards.
00:31:24
Whatever the big difference for Eli Manning is to me, obviously the two Super Bowl runs, two Super Bowl MVPs.
00:31:31
But also I think there's something to be said of being the Iron Man.
00:31:35
You look at like cal Ripken now he was a much better baseball player, but there's something about having longevity, being available and being available for your team to put up those passing yards, those touchdowns and everything else.
00:31:47
So while he was an average quarterback in a few different years, he was above average and some below average and others.
00:31:54
He was there for the Giants available every single time they needed him.
00:31:57
And when the time, you know, when he was called, when his number was called in the playoffs, he had two amazing runs and won the Giants to some world championships.
00:32:06
Julian Edelman doesn't have that piece of the discussion on his side.
00:32:10
He doesn't have the yards and two touchdowns and and things like Eli Manning does to say, hey, I'm a top 10 quarterback of my era.
00:32:16
So you know, I think it's okay to question Eli Manning's paul of fame candidacy.
00:32:21
I think it's crazy to be able to put Julian Edelman and Eli Manning in the same breath and say they're like the same use case because they're just not.
00:32:28
And let's get out, we can get out of here on this and this isn't, again I'm not trying to tear down Julian Edelman, but over on sports reference dot com they have the formula for determining percentage chance of making the Hall of Fame.
00:32:39
And essentially if you're a if you reach these numbers on these metrics which combine things, the formulas based on approximated value of the players peak year, their second year, their third best year and so on.
00:32:51
Down the list from 100% 95 90.
00:32:53
That's how they wait out each of these years as a starting point.
00:32:56
They add in things like pro like all decades selections and V.
00:33:00
P.
00:33:01
Awards, defensive player of the Year award etcetera.
00:33:02
First team, all Pro Super Bowl titles, pro bowls in descending weights as well.
00:33:07
So at the end of it you end up coming up with, if you're at 100 and 20 if you get to 120 then you're going to get probably into the Hall of Fame fairly quickly and 100 and 50 would be a score that would get you a ballot lock as well.
00:33:21
Right? So you're, you're going to have an opportunity to get their anything over 1 20 is kind of the baseline, Julian Edelman has a 36 for whatever you want to take that as that's what is that? That's what the score is.
00:33:34
So that, and that's, that takes into account the championships and the playoff quality is given the provost, like any of those things, those accolades come into, you know, coming to impact their without those, his number will be drastically lower.
00:33:48
So, you know, for whatever it's worth, that's how those numbers go by it.
00:33:51
And just as we can, even since, since we're here, since we're doing the dance, let's take a look at how they do, Wait Eli manning and he comes in at this is always exciting.
00:34:02
Uh and they're not going to give it to me.
00:34:04
This is this is this is the sadness of it all.
00:34:06
They don't, I can't, I can't quickly enough find his name.
00:34:10
All we can assume is that he will be a Hall of Famer.
00:34:12
Uh, we will be back on monday.
00:34:15
I think we'll take a look just around the Giants again over the weekend.
00:34:18
I'm going to highlight another positional selection group that we can talk about mid round pick.
00:34:23
So if you assume the Giants are going to go with an offensive tackle or with an edge rusher in the first round, how do we feel things out? A wide receiver at cornerback? Bring it all back around.
00:34:34
Cornerback is still on my board in the 3rd, 4th round, potentially for the Giants to bring in a young player that can develop and take over one of these spots maybe two years from now for the new york football giants.
00:34:45
So be sure to keep an eye out for that.
00:34:47
Obviously some of the mock drafts that dandy won't let me do on the podcast.
00:34:51
You love them.
00:34:53
If you're gonna mock I can mock if I want to.
00:34:55
You know I can leave my co host behind because if my co host won't mock and my co host can't mock pennies.
00:34:59
No co host of mine.
00:35:01
But he is and his name is Andy Mac Collins.
00:35:03
And as always if you're following us on social media at one giant podcast hashtag O.
00:35:09
G. P.
00:35:10
Andy Mac which would want me and demand that, you know, as always let's go big blue.
00:35:22
Mhm.
00:35:28
Mhm.
00:35:29
Mhm.
00:35:33
Yeah.
00:35:34
Yeah.
00:35:36
Mhm.
00:35:37
Yeah.
00:35:39
Yeah.
00:35:40
Yeah.
00:35:42
Yeah.

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