SportsCastr - One Giant Podcast - Free Agency Update: Leonard Williams signs | Devontae Booker, John Ross added
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Podcast

One Giant Podcast

with Adam Armbrecht & Andy Mackiewicz

Adam Armbrecht@OneGiantPodcast

“One Giant Podcast” is a SportsCastr Featured Podcast all about the 4-time Super Bowl champion New York football Giants. Your hosts, Adam Armbrecht and Andy Mackiewicz balance the emotional roller coaster that is being a fan of Big Blue with cold hard numbers and analytics to give any Giants fan an expert’s perspective on their team.

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Description

FINALLY! Leonard Williams signs a 3 year deal with the Giants. Adam and Andy talk "Fan Panic" and ultimately a good deal getting done. After losing Dalvin Tomlinson to the Vikings the Giants brought back veteran defensive tackle Austin Johnson and also took a look at former first rounder John Ross on a 1 year deal. Finally Adam explains why signing Devontae Booker early to a contract was a great move. Plus: Could the WR market back the Giants into a Golladay steal?!

Transcript

00:00:03
mhm.
00:00:09
Okay.
00:00:11
Mhm, Yeah.
00:00:16
Mhm.
00:00:17
Mhm.
00:00:18
And that is correct.
00:00:19
Friends on a Wednesday, we said, We're gonna come back in.
00:00:22
Probably start to ramp up our coverage a little bit here over the course of free agency, as always, Adam Margaret, joined by the healthy, wealthy and wise Andy Mac.
00:00:30
What's how are we on a on a rainy Wednesday, you'll ruin the weather.
00:00:32
Just to be clear, you really messed that up for us.
00:00:35
I mean, there's always a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
00:00:38
Happy ST Patrick's Day, Adam.
00:00:41
God, what a miserable thing to bring up during a cir***stance when it's just not the same as it used to be.
00:00:48
I'd be taking off today because I'm Irish.
00:00:51
That's right.
00:00:52
It's a it's a holiday for me.
00:00:53
I'd be probably, you know, going out some local spots that I like to go and grab a couple of drinks and and some food and like that, actually, and most of the supposed to go to just got shut down from a covid 19 outbreak as of yesterday.
00:01:05
So it was a real gut punch when I thought maybe I'd do some takeout.
00:01:09
So again Thanks for the lemon in the cut.
00:01:12
Um, we have a lot to get into.
00:01:14
We're going to cover some of the smaller signings that the Giants got.
00:01:18
Obviously accomplished yesterday.
00:01:20
We're going to touch on the Dalvin, Tomlinson parting ways in free agency a little bit later on, and then I'll break down.
00:01:25
Why fans are completely insane to be overreacting to Devontae Booker signing, but obviously the biggest piece of information as Twitter was waiting with bated breath yesterday.
00:01:36
Leonard Williams does resign with the Giants.
00:01:38
A three year, $63 million deal, 45 million guaranteed comes with, I think, $21.
00:01:45
5 million signing bonus as well and reduces that cap hit down to $11 million after everything that went on.
00:01:54
You know, there's a lot that happened here.
00:01:55
Fans were clamoring for rescinding the franchise tag at one point, and you and I were talking in the background around.
00:02:01
Listen, you can paint, as I suggested, playing Devil's Advocate.
00:02:05
You can paint a picture where you were sent to tag and look what we pivot to Kenny Golladay or whatever if you want to go down that road.
00:02:12
But the lack of patience.
00:02:13
I think from the fan base was really coming to a boil before these numbers came out.
00:02:17
And then all of a sudden it wasn't as big as maybe we all feared it was going to be $21 million per year.
00:02:27
Leonard Williams, three years get him for the next three years before he turns 30 years old, were getting the prime years of Leonard Williams career for $21 million.
00:02:38
And I think there's a couple.
00:02:39
There's a lot of things to unpack here with the winner Williams deal, but the few things that come to mind for me is one $11 million cap hit.
00:02:47
They were able to work out the deal.
00:02:49
They gave him a couple million more on an average per salary than the franchise tag was.
00:02:53
But we were able to free up a bunch of cap space to go make some smaller signings.
00:02:58
It gave us a little bit of room and flexibility, which is great and for all the fans that were really upset, like this deal is pretty reasonable for the Giants.
00:03:06
Like they got to me a top 10 defensive player in the league at just about $20 million a year during the prime of his career to anchor your defense.
00:03:15
So for for me, I am very happy with this.
00:03:18
They could have made it a five year deal for 100 something million and made the last two years some ridiculous number that's avoidable to make it have some nice window dressing like some of these other players have signed for.
00:03:29
But really, you know, I anticipate Leonard Williams being around for this entire contract, and and that's, you know, uncommon today in the practice of giving out these four and five year deal to other people in the in the model of Dave Gettleman.
00:03:40
Listen to three year deal and this is the average salary and we don't have to move beyond.
00:03:43
You know, all those things that we highlighted last week to his guns.
00:03:46
He stuck to his guns on that.
00:03:47
It's actually true, like three years 63.
00:03:49
I'm like, That's pretty transparent.
00:03:51
The first two years are basically guaranteed, like the whole thing is a pretty straightforward deal, which makes me wonder why there was so much back and forth over the last couple days, about like we're seeing the tag.
00:04:01
Will he sign? Why is he being selfish? What's going on when in fact, it's like this deal? Like how? How far off could they really have been once you franchised Glynor Williams like, you know, this is the amount of money that he's going to ask for.
00:04:14
Well, yeah, a couple of a couple of the things that I think I wonder if they played a factor was that I wonder where the numbers starting point was for the Giants.
00:04:24
And as you said, the market starts to play itself out and you look around you go buy some of these numbers are a little bit lower than maybe we thought for some of the guys in and around this position.
00:04:31
So maybe a little commitment remorse from the Giants that now you set the floor.
00:04:36
But you had to have known going in right.
00:04:38
Once You do the franchise tag, you're saying, Well, Leonard Williams, worst case scenario, you can sit on the tag for a year and make $19.
00:04:43
4 million.
00:04:45
So you know that Leonard Woods isn't gonna come down from that too quickly.
00:04:48
Shoot down an idea that a lot of fans were saying, Well, then let them go to free agency and let you know Let them see what the market looks like.
00:04:54
Uh, send it over on Twitter.
00:04:56
If you had rescinded the tag and put them in the free agency market, you could choose to do that.
00:05:00
But you have to accept that he wasn't coming back then like that.
00:05:03
He would not be coming back.
00:05:05
He's not going out to the market saying, Well, here's what I got these with the number of no, no, no, He's going somewhere else and some other team in a win now mode will be willing to throw him a little money, even if it had been a really big number for a one year, reset the value market for yourself and come back in next year.
00:05:18
That's the one little side piece.
00:05:20
The the other thing that I think probably maybe was holding it up right.
00:05:25
It was probably, yeah, being able to get back out on the market 30 and reset it again for himself, which is a nice opportunity to be able to have so you can go back and make himself another substantial payday.
00:05:38
Probably a 29 only on 30 years old.
00:05:40
So maybe the Giants would have hated having an extra year in their potentially.
00:05:44
So I think it probably came down to that in a lot of ways.
00:05:47
And then also, how are we structuring the guaranteed money where you'll still allow us to get it down to 11 million this year? And, you know, give you that 45 million guaranteed give you the big signing bonus number as well.
00:05:59
So there's a lot of nuts and bolts.
00:06:00
Do I wish it happened sooner? Sure.
00:06:02
But as we're gonna get into in a second, there were some other things that were happening, as as the legal tampering period started that indicated the Giants weren't feeling restricted by this anyway.
00:06:12
Yeah.
00:06:13
I mean, the most frustrating part for all Giant fans was they felt like there was a bunch of reasonable contracts being put out there for players the Giants had interest in a couple years ago.
00:06:25
Off seasons, different things.
00:06:26
You've got a guy like Yannick and back away.
00:06:29
You know, he was a guy that we thought could get 15 $18 million as a premier pass rusher in his mid twenties, he signed a two year, $13 million annual deal like That's really reasonable to me for for a pass rusher in his prime two year deal.
00:06:42
So you see these different deals flying off the board and you're wondering, Man, I wish the Giants had some cap space available to be a player in some of these different ones.
00:06:50
But to your point, it seems like they were a player in things.
00:06:54
Anyway, We we talked about some of the different swings and misses the Giants had or how much interest they had.
00:06:59
They were close on 11 premier pass rusher at a young age and in Leonard Floyd.
00:07:04
And, you know, obviously you know, the Giants couldn't make that work.
00:07:07
But it is.
00:07:08
It is crazy to see all these reasonable deals.
00:07:11
You never say that in an NFL off season.
00:07:13
You're like, How on earth is that guy getting $20 million? And now it was like, Wow, two year, $10 million annual deal for a guy that's, uh, upper echelon starter like that seems to be money well spent and will look even better once the cat goes up considerably next year.
00:07:28
That that year, two or year three of these deals is gonna look like like table stakes.
00:07:32
Yeah, it's very interesting, too, because a lot of two and three year contracts, right? Like and we'll touch on here.
00:07:37
Dalvin Tomlinson ends up going to the Vikings on the two year, 22,000,016 million in the first year, a lot of guaranteed dollars for him again to be able to reset the market.
00:07:46
It seems like a lot of these guys may be looking to accomplish that right shorter than longer.
00:07:51
Not a lot of these long deals being given out.
00:07:54
So that even a guy I mentioned, uh, when we were having this discussion on social media Shaquille Griffin, right? He's 25.
00:08:00
He signs a three year deal so he'll be right back on the market as a premier outside corner, able to again Kachin.
00:08:05
So simply, that's the structure of it.
00:08:07
The Dalvin Tomlinson piece in this to me, and we can mention Leonard Floyd.
00:08:11
That was the big name that the Giant seems pretty committed on.
00:08:14
Didn't end up working out because ultimately he goes back on a restructure and they make the money work for a team almost $50 million over the cap.
00:08:21
The Rams are still able to make some things happen there.
00:08:24
But Dalvin Tomlinson.
00:08:26
I think what I came to realize was for all of the talk about what he could be into this team and both sides liking it, I have to think, based on the fact that the Giants were in discussions on a Leonard Floyd.
00:08:38
Apparently, they were also at least looking around at Hunter Henry.
00:08:42
Which is interesting to say the least.
00:08:44
I don't think either side really planned on coming back.
00:08:47
Like, you know, I don't think the Giants plan on bringing Dalvin Tomlinson back.
00:08:50
I don't think Dalvin Tomlinson anticipated being back because it seems like they both walked into this feeling that way.
00:08:56
And if we want to just cast our minds back, it would bring into question if you either didn't plan on or thought it was highly unlikely that you would be bringing Dalvin Tomlinson back.
00:09:07
I can I can.
00:09:08
I can go back to last year and say he's a guy you probably should be considered moving that 27 years old to a team, the Green Bay Packer.
00:09:17
There's were in the market and made a call about him Last year, the Giants turned it down.
00:09:22
A couple a couple things, one so far.
00:09:25
Admittedly as frustrating as it is, this offseason has played out exactly how I expected the Giants to play this out.
00:09:31
I thought they would get a long term deal done with Leonard Williams, I said, Unfortunately, I think we're just not going to have the money to sign Dalvin Tomlinson, Even though I'd love to bring him back, I thought we would release Kevin Zeitler, and I thought Soldier would actually be part of the plan.
00:09:43
And literally, that's how this has played out.
00:09:46
Um, you know, when you think about the dead cat pits, you think about the different players that we have in our system to try to replace someone like Dalvin Tomlinson.
00:09:53
You know, the writing was on the wall early on, and, you know, when they give Austin Johnson a guaranteed contract, you know, three years per year annually.
00:10:01
That was immediately the situation where the Giants end up turning around, saying, Yeah, we have B J Hill.
00:10:06
We've got Austin Johnson.
00:10:07
We can, you know, rub these two nickels together and hopefully make close to a dollar, which is what Dalvin Tomlinson is.
00:10:13
And so, you know, with the cap the way it is, the Giants had to make tough decisions.
00:10:18
They wanted Leonard Williams.
00:10:19
They realized that Dalvin Tomlinson was going to be a casualty, especially because we still have all these other holes on our roster that we're trying to fill.
00:10:27
Yeah, And I think maybe you and I think when we talked about it last couple of weeks, I got swept up in a little bit Jordan Brennan saying, Maybe it still is.
00:10:35
We don't know, right? We don't make ourselves out to be cap experts here that you can.
00:10:38
You can move the money you can restructure.
00:10:40
You can create space to to get multiple big names, including Leonard Williams.
00:10:44
Bring him back.
00:10:45
You can still go after Kenny Golladay, if you choose to.
00:10:47
That may be the case, but our initial thought was I wouldn't be surprised if this is a fairly conservative off season for the Giants and they just look to incrementally move themselves forward.
00:10:58
And it does bring to mind the ideas we're gonna get into a couple of these smaller signings that the mentality of winning while rebuilding is a bad approach.
00:11:08
I think everyone generally agrees, agrees with that.
00:11:09
Right, gentlemen, it's a mistake to make that statement.
00:11:12
And yet this would fall in line with the rebuilding part of it, right that the Giants are not over committing to big money, big contracts they are still looking at and saying, We are probably a little ways away here.
00:11:25
So maybe there isn't a reason to over extend ourselves to over commit to a Dalvin Tomlinson, whose 27 gonna be 28 years old and then say right.
00:11:33
But if we don't think we're there in the next two year window of real deep playoff run, it might not be worth it to give out that contract, knowing what's coming down the road and a little bit.
00:11:43
Well, other piece of it is.
00:11:44
The Giants, you know, were just outside the playoffs last year.
00:11:49
They just missed it.
00:11:50
It came down to beating Dallas, and then it came down to the Peterson getting friends.
00:11:56
Well, listen, I mean, going into the late afternoon game, the Giants were one outcome away.
00:12:03
One game away from making the playoffs and making noise in the playoffs.
00:12:06
Like it while they were old.
00:12:08
You know, while they did not reach the wind total that you expect the playoff team to get to, they were.
00:12:13
And that speaks to the division.
00:12:14
And that's what I'm talking about, Adam.
00:12:16
Okay? And by the way, Daniel Jones injury away from maybe the record looking different as well, Right? Maybe Maybe they're a set.
00:12:21
Maybe there's seven and nine fighting for eight and eight, potentially as opposed to six and 10.
00:12:25
Right? And and Okay, let's go around the NFC East.
00:12:29
What is Dallas done this offseason? Okay, they've given $40 million to to their quarterback.
00:12:34
They locked him in long term grade.
00:12:35
He's been around the last couple of years. Fine.
00:12:38
Um, have they signed anybody else? Have they done anything to improve their team? Not really.
00:12:43
They have restructured their offensive line, so they give themselves some flexibility there.
00:12:46
Yeah, but what have they done with that? They haven't done 100%.
00:12:49
I'm like, look at the players that were on the team.
00:12:52
Look at the roster that they had.
00:12:53
It has not improved.
00:12:54
Look at the eagles is in addition by subtraction they got rid of Carson Wentz, which are supposed to be their franchise quarterback.
00:13:00
They haven't really made any other moves.
00:13:02
You look at the Washington football team.
00:13:03
They signed Ryan Fitzpatrick.
00:13:05
I'm gonna sit here and say, I'm gonna sit here and actually not be nervous or worried at all about Ryan Fitzpatrick because he's never He's never proven to be the guy that takes a team over the top and brings with the playoffs.
00:13:19
He is he a good quarterback? Sure am.
00:13:22
I'm more nervous about Alex Smith being back there than I am.
00:13:24
Ryan Fitzpatrick.
00:13:25
Yes, and and so the fact that they made this decision to say either going with Taylor, Heinecke or Ryan Fitzpatrick or both, we don't know.
00:13:32
We'll figure it out.
00:13:34
I'm not really too worried about the Washington football team.
00:13:36
Their defense scares me.
00:13:37
I think they signed a cornerback from from the Bengals. That's really good.
00:13:41
Their defense was amazing last year, but you look around the league.
00:13:44
The Giants are like how far off where we we lost sequel Barkley.
00:13:47
Daniel Jones was hurt.
00:13:49
Maybe we just need some small tweaks and we could still win this division.
00:13:52
Oh, sure, sure, Yeah, and and that's not your point is well taken, you know, By the way, go look at some Ryan Fitzpatrick stats.
00:13:59
As far as regular season quarterback, he's up there with some of the better quarterbacks in the league over the last handful of years.
00:14:03
He's a good regular season quarterback.
00:14:04
I think it's actually a good pick up for Washington.
00:14:06
They may be right now, you know, it's probably it's probably Dallas based on talent, but then Washington could be a surgeon.
00:14:13
Team Eagles are a total question mark right now, because I don't want to get too lost in that.
00:14:17
But your point is well taken that in general, the Giants felt pretty good about what they have done defensively last year.
00:14:24
They feel like because of injuries.
00:14:26
Maybe the offense didn't get to showcase as much as they could have.
00:14:30
So again, you know, coming into this year, you're three for Daniel Jones.
00:14:33
It becomes important, and you probably you should feel pretty positive in the general direction of the team.
00:14:39
It's just this question mark of of what is it going to be when it gets on the field in that vein, so beyond Leonard Williams.
00:14:45
Now you look over to bring back, as you mentioned Austin Johnson.
00:14:47
That's a nice little safety net.
00:14:48
Remember, they still have B J Hill there.
00:14:50
Remember, they still technically have Macintosh there as well, for whatever 1/5 round value is for you.
00:14:55
So you said rotation by committee and and we'll see what happens.
00:14:59
Maybe in the draft, another mid round pick could help fill out that gap there.
00:15:03
Left by Dalvin Tomlinson.
00:15:04
They also signed John Ross.
00:15:06
Feather in my cap mentioned this guy's name for a bit.
00:15:08
I thought that this was exactly what I thought was gonna happen for him.
00:15:10
A one year low cost.
00:15:12
Prove it deal to reset your market. Potentially.
00:15:14
This feels like that.
00:15:15
Corey Coleman kind of take a flyer on a guy I liked the pick up.
00:15:19
I think it brings that vertical speed and threat into the Giants wide receiver room.
00:15:24
The only quick question, uh, here for that before we move on to the hot button issue that started the off season for the Giants.
00:15:30
Um, do you Do you think that signing John Ross? It's not about the player that he is, but do you think that committing a little bit of money to the wide receiver room ahead of the draft, should that indicate that the Giants are not necessarily even if you know, if they could make the money work are not necessarily going to be in on a wide receiver and free agency.
00:15:49
I don't think signing John Ross prohibits anything from the wide receiver front, not prohibits, but more just that.
00:15:57
Do you think that the Giants are now are more likely? Does that indicate that they're more likely to be waiting for the draft to get the big weapon, as opposed to in free agency? No, no, because there's still so many different holes that the Giants have not addressed yet across the entire team.
00:16:12
One is edge rusher like we were not very good at rushing the passer, and we have done nothing so far this offseason to address that.
00:16:20
And a lot of these addresses, like Matt Jordan and others have come off the board.
00:16:24
You know, we mentioned Yannick and got away fairly reasonable deals in my mind for for premier pass rusher.
00:16:29
Um, there's only guy.
00:16:31
There's a handful of guys Jadeveon, Clowney, Justin Houston, you know there's some older guys, veteran guys that are out there, that the Giants could make a decision on, or they could go edge rusher in the draft and say, We got to get younger at the edge position we need.
00:16:44
We need some skill.
00:16:45
I don't think signing John Ross really does anything to change the Giants plan at all.
00:16:49
I think Kenny Golladay, Curtis Samuel still are potentially being mentioned for the Giants.
00:16:55
I don't think that, you know signing John Ross prohibits another free agent splash, and I don't think it prohibits us from looking at if any of the wide receivers or pits dropped to the Giants at 11 in the draft.
00:17:06
I think all of these things are still on the board.
00:17:08
Whether or not I like certain players more than another is another thing.
00:17:11
But needing an edge rusher, needing a wide receiver and needing a cornerback means the Giants still have to sort some stuff out in the draft early as well as still pick up some of these veteran signings in free agency.
00:17:23
Yeah, nothing about the John Ross sign would tell me Oh, and that's why you can bump wide receiver down the list of needs or, you know, or or Jaylen Waddle Because we got John Ross is not something that gentleman is saying to you 100%.
00:17:35
But what we will get into in a minute here is going to be, though.
00:17:39
What? Because I I send you a text and you can tell you a text yesterday and you reply with, uh, with a question Mark and I forgot to follow up.
00:17:47
I forgot to explain to you what I meant.
00:17:49
So it's actually I think it's worth mentioning because it is about what? What do the Giants need to do? Maybe if they can make one mid level, you know, one additional move here in free agency, what would be the most pertinent thing to do and why does it maybe dictate something for for the draft, you're giving the listeners a peek behind the curtain 99% of the time.
00:18:07
I get text from Adam.
00:18:08
That's like six words that I've never seen put together in a sentence.
00:18:11
And I'm like, What does that mean? It's like hieroglyphics.
00:18:14
A smoke signal.
00:18:15
I'm trying to figure out what he's saying, so I still don't know what he said because I said so with a question mark.
00:18:20
And then Adam never responded.
00:18:21
So it's like I got this weird coast and I gotta Yeah, 4 to 7 hours later, I'm a I'm a a dry my address.
00:18:28
The thing that I said to you, um so So the first thing.
00:18:31
Okay before we clear the table here in addition to the Leonard Williams contract bringing back Austin Johnson bringing in John Ross the first move.
00:18:39
So I'll set the table by saying, I understand why.
00:18:42
When Giants fans see this as the first deal that the legal tampering period brings for Big Blue, I get my fans why the fans react somewhat negatively.
00:18:51
I mean, very negatively.
00:18:53
And that's the Vontae Booker on the two year, $6 million deal.
00:18:56
First year is 2.
00:18:57
75 million.
00:19:00
You you can make your case if you want.
00:19:03
If you want to say why, because I know it frustrated you.
00:19:05
I know you don't like it.
00:19:06
If you want to take it first.
00:19:08
That's fine.
00:19:09
But I can lay out exactly why this makes all the sense in the world and why the Giants fans shouldn't be thinking about it like, Oh, Jonathan Stewart, don't big money at a better running back.
00:19:16
Like, I can shoot this thing down very easily if anyone wants me to.
00:19:21
But I feel like you represent the voice of the fans on this one, so go ahead.
00:19:26
You know, take the floor with why this is such a disaster to commit less than $3 million this season to a veteran running back.
00:19:32
Okay, Big blue nation.
00:19:34
I am your voice.
00:19:36
I am on this podcast for you.
00:19:38
This is why we do this show.
00:19:40
Because when I saw this signing, I went, What the hell is going on here? And I went onto Twitter and everybody else was saying the exact same thing.
00:19:51
So I knew that I felt the same way that everyone else did.
00:19:54
And it's for a few reasons.
00:19:57
Devontae Booker, 28 years old, Kind of a journeyman running back. Fine.
00:20:02
Okay.
00:20:03
Two years.
00:20:04
Not long commitment.
00:20:05
Okay, Great.
00:20:07
Saint John Barclay has been hurt.
00:20:09
We need to invest a little bit of money in someone to be back there.
00:20:13
The biggest problem with this is that we go out and we sign a backup running back to a two year, $6 million deal.
00:20:21
We're giving a backup running back $3 million a year.
00:20:25
Dave Gettleman loves setting the market early for how much a veteran running back is going to cost and it drives me bananas.
00:20:35
It drives me insane to think that we're spending money on that when we could be addressing it anywhere else.
00:20:40
You know, I wrote, You know, Jamis Winston signed for $5.
00:20:43
5 million could get up to 10 or $12 million with the Saints.
00:20:47
The Saints are are in capital, and they found a way to get a starting quarterback for $2 million more than what we're paying a backup running back, which to me is just like frustrating.
00:20:57
Okay? And the second piece is we've already invested a number two overall draft pick in Sichuan Barkley.
00:21:03
He is the guy that needs to be on the field 80% of the time for the Giants to be successful.
00:21:07
We has shown last year, even when he gets hurt, Wayne Gallman making under a million dollars Alfred Morris picked up off the scrap heap.
00:21:16
You can literally sign a veteran running back at any point that you want in this offseason at any point.
00:21:22
And Dave Gettleman goes out and says I'm going to give $3 million to Devontae Booker with all this, all this taking into account.
00:21:30
Let me go ahead and clear.
00:21:31
Clear this up for everybody out there.
00:21:32
First of all, as you mentioned it, right, you got you got sick One, Barkley coming off the injury.
00:21:36
So it's important.
00:21:38
Um, but you need to understand that he is still going to potentially be dealing with an injury the start of the year.
00:21:44
So maybe the first couple of weeks are going to be timid.
00:21:46
You're not going to want to overtax him.
00:21:48
Want to have a guy you can count on behind him.
00:21:50
You also, though, then have to consider how much did they How much was Cody Core making last year? This year's Yeah.
00:21:55
Just making 22 and a half about 2 2.
00:21:57
5.
00:21:58
That's right.
00:21:59
Guess guess what? Devontae Booker also is a special teams contributor.
00:22:02
So now if you want, If you want to get dollars incentive What? You commit to the guy you committed money to two positions.
00:22:08
You got your backup running back that can come in and play, and you can also get a guy that can be a contributor and special teams.
00:22:14
You're doing two birds with one stone.
00:22:15
You can split up, however you want two million here, one million there, 1.
00:22:18
5 million on each.
00:22:19
That would feel pretty good, too.
00:22:21
He's also a solid uh.
00:22:23
He's also a song, although by the way, here he's also a solid blocker.
00:22:28
He's also a solid receiving back out of the backfield.
00:22:30
So when you talk about and this is and I think this is fair, I understand where Giants fans are coming from, they say, Well, you picked up Alfred Morris of the Scrappy.
00:22:36
You took a look at Freeman, who ends up getting hurt and go out the door.
00:22:39
Wayne Goldman had a good year last year.
00:22:41
That's great.
00:22:42
But Wayne Goldman is what a north and south runner.
00:22:44
That is what he is.
00:22:45
I like him, but that's what he is.
00:22:46
He's a one trick pony.
00:22:47
Alfred Morris.
00:22:48
Listen, you got some value out of the legs.
00:22:50
I think that that guy's, you know, far closer to the end.
00:22:53
In the beginning, he was out there to be picked up.
00:22:56
Davonte Devontae Booker represents everything that you want.
00:23:00
A solid backup with experience had had a good career in good time in in in Denver with the Denver Broncos, where he was in a crowded backfield but bubbled up for nice Performances.
00:23:09
Looked good last year when Jacobs went down for the Vegas Raiders as well.
00:23:14
So I just don't understand this reaction piece.
00:23:18
And by the way, the last thing I'll say you go into the free agency market and guess what you end up having to do if you don't do it early.
00:23:24
If you identified, he said.
00:23:25
We really like him.
00:23:26
He checks all these boxes for us.
00:23:28
He's good value if we wait, and all of a sudden you're back in the scrap heat.
00:23:33
Bargain bin shopping to back up, Say, Kwan Barkley coming off in the one that we were last year, where you're you're pulling its strength and hoping something happens for you.
00:23:41
It's just not worth the risk.
00:23:43
So I understand that the shell shock of past experiences with Dave gentlemen and these moves, but again, $3 million is nothing.
00:23:51
It's nothing.
00:23:52
We talked about with minor wounds.
00:23:53
Right when you say it's not our money.
00:23:55
What are you worried about? 20 to 24? Who cares? Get him on the team.
00:23:58
We're not comparing apples to apples here with the value of the player, but $3 million is nothing on a cap for a New York football Giants team that had an incredible need at this position behind sequel.
00:24:10
Barkley. You're right.
00:24:11
Take on.
00:24:12
Barclay needs to be on the field 80 85% of the time.
00:24:14
And you also need to have someone that when you put them back there, you can ask him to do everything that you want to running back to be doing whatever level of play Booker is.
00:24:24
He can do it in all phases, and he gives you the special teams help.
00:24:26
So listen, I think that fans also, by the way, by the end of the day, we're able to kind of settle in on that a little bit because they understood what was going.
00:24:33
You know that.
00:24:34
Okay, now we got letter Williams back.
00:24:35
You know, it softened the blow.
00:24:38
I think if it had happened in a different order, nobody would have batted an eyelash.
00:24:41
It was just a little more aggressive because it was the first thing you heard for Giants.
00:24:45
Right? First thing Big Blue does Devontae Booker.
00:24:48
So you know, I get it.
00:24:49
And also, I think everyone is going to really appreciate the value that this player is going to bring to this team in the upcoming year.
00:24:55
I can understand and appreciate that, you know, Special teams player Joe Judge has an emphasis on that.
00:25:02
I agree with a lot of the things you said.
00:25:04
The order in which things happened was concerning for a couple of reasons.
00:25:08
One is, we're not signing any big free agents because we don't have the cap space.
00:25:12
That's what we're being told.
00:25:14
Then we're watching Dalvin Tomlinson walk out the door.
00:25:17
Why can't get Leonard Williams to sign a long term deal? Dalvin Tomlinson is gone, so everyone's freaking out.
00:25:22
We don't have the cap space.
00:25:23
We need to create cap space.
00:25:24
What's happening? And instead of creating that cap space, we spend it on a backup running back that we hope doesn't play very much this year.
00:25:32
We hope that we we don't see Booker on the field for more than 15% 20% of the snaps because that means that sequel.
00:25:39
Barkley is out there performing for Giants and and you know the last thing I'll say is, listen.
00:25:44
The reason why it frustrates me is you look at a site like sporting news.
00:25:49
They just put out like the top 20 running backs available and Devontae Booker is number 18 on the list.
00:25:54
And so we're like, going out and we're being like, we gotta pay that guy number Number seven on the list is Jamal Williams, who's 25 years old, has over his yards per carry is more than Devontae Booker, and he sends a two year, $7.
00:26:06
5 million deal to basically potentially be the starter for the team.
00:26:11
So, like there's a couple of different wrinkles here where it's like he's an older guy.
00:26:16
He's not one of the top guys available on the market.
00:26:19
We're running out of cap space. We haven't signed London.
00:26:21
Williams were walking, letting down Thomason walk out the door, and here we are, throwing money early on in free agency to the number 18th ranked running back.
00:26:28
I could buy.
00:26:29
I get it.
00:26:30
I I do I? I understand it's not like it's not like it's beyond the pale to be frustrated by it.
00:26:35
But even when you look at those things and you say, Well, this is where he's the higher the best available running back right? But we're not getting the best available.
00:26:40
Running backs were talking about looking for a backup running back.
00:26:42
So you take the top 12 or 13 of those guys off the list for the Giants, and then you work into it.
00:26:47
We won't we won't belabor it.
00:26:49
Although we are getting over as we went live here on YouTube, I like.
00:26:52
Yeah, I love someone as John Doe as their as their handle, Um, but mentioning in him both him and also John Josh, excuse me to shout out to the both of you guys for getting involved in it, saying you are over paying a little bit for the backup running back, but it's a quality backup running back, right? So it's a little bit.
00:27:08
This isn't Jonathan Stewart.
00:27:09
The other piece of information that comes in here, though, from Josh breaking it here on the podcast is that Gilmore traded to the Washington football team uh, So let's just circle back briefly here on that conversation about the division and saying something like, Is Ryan Fitzpatrick the You know, Super Bowl championship caliber quarterback you need? Maybe not, but he's a guy that can win you a lot of regular season games.
00:27:40
That defense was already strong, and now you're potentially talking about adding, Now you've added another high caliber was 31.
00:27:48
You know he's closer to the end of the beginning.
00:27:50
But you're going to get good football out of this guy, and you've done it at a key position that Washington lack talent at how, uh, potentially how potentially difficult is this going to be to take? I mean, Washington might be the team that you really circle those two matchups in the upcoming season as being the most exciting and interesting and difficult for the Giants.
00:28:09
I mean, this is not good for the Giants at all.
00:28:13
Um, when when you when you break it down, you know, the Washington football team just invested in a quarterback cornerback from the Cincinnati Bengals.
00:28:21
I think it's, uh, William Jackson.
00:28:24
Lynn Johnson? Um, yeah, Johnson.
00:28:27
So I did.
00:28:28
I did a little bit of recount on him.
00:28:29
And what everyone is saying is that he is a leader.
00:28:32
He the word that everyone uses Alpha male on the Alpha dog.
00:28:37
He's the guy that commands attention when he's on the field.
00:28:41
That was concerning.
00:28:42
Now they trade for Stefon Gilmore.
00:28:44
That is even more concerning because they have locked down.
00:28:47
Um, you know, cornerbacks on the outside.
00:28:49
What I will say is, it's kind of ironic the Giants don't have a premier number one wide receiver, so it's like, I don't know, You can have as many corners as you want.
00:28:58
It's not like we're focusing like you're trying to shut down our one corner, and that's the way you beat the or wide receiver.
00:29:03
That's not the way you beat the Giants.
00:29:05
It's gonna be handling Sequana Barkley out of the backfield, and that's not necessarily a cornerback's job.
00:29:09
So, you know, huge acquisition.
00:29:11
You know, the Washington football team is going all in on this year.
00:29:14
You can tell they feel like they have the defense and they just keep adding pieces to it.
00:29:19
That would be really concerning to me.
00:29:21
So incidentally enough, And if that is the case, um what you also have to consider its just that against your point.
00:29:28
It's a gettable division, right? So So what are the little moves that you can make that then bubble you up from being? If you're watching right from seven and 98 99 7, what moves get you to be able to go four and two in the division, as opposed to maybe going three and three or two and four? Right.
00:29:43
And that's going to be the difference in making the playoffs or not so interesting to see the details come out about that and what it looked like from there.
00:29:49
Really, it's as good a time to transition as any when you overall, then look at where the Giants stand.
00:29:55
We mentioned that Hunter Henry.
00:29:57
Maybe it was on the radar in free agency that touched in on Floyd.
00:30:01
This decision is the text message I sent you.
00:30:04
I I thought that once the Giants brought back Leonard Williams, you sign John Ross.
00:30:14
The text I sent to you was the Giants are pretty close to saying they have two drafts later at 11, if he's going to be available and then you said huh? And I give, you know, information.
00:30:26
The reason being is that when you look at the top of this draft and you say there's a lot of teams that need quarterbacks, the Jets, maybe the Atlanta Falcons.
00:30:34
Maybe you know, the Detroit Lions, depending on what their intentions are with golf accepting a lot, A lot of the Carolina Panthers, all these teams are in the next for quarterbacks.
00:30:41
A lot of these teams are also in the mix for offensive linemen.
00:30:46
So if you create this need this value need for a lot of these teams, where do they all pick in the second round, top of the second round ahead of us? So if the Giants feel like offensive line, the guard replacing slightly is key here.
00:31:01
They may have to consider very much going into that first round short of maybe pits falling, which feels, like all indications are less and less and less likely he's going to be there.
00:31:10
He's getting reported, may be the best player in the draft period.
00:31:13
So if he's not going to be there, maybe Waddle ends up being there.
00:31:17
But if you even if you take Waddle at 11 you can find yourself in the second round looking at late second round, early third round offensive line talent to fill a last keyhole on the roster.
00:31:29
I just I do wonder what this is going to look like for the Giants, and when we talk about the last move you could make, maybe it is wide receiver, which would then eliminate that that pressure there at 11.
00:31:40
And it's difficult because my inclination was to say, Well, you lost Alvin Tomlinson.
00:31:44
If you're going to add something else, it would be a son.
00:31:47
Red****, right, Bring him in to help with the edge rush.
00:31:49
Or maybe you look at the crop of cornerbacks on the market and say, Let's bolster we have across from Bradbury and solidify that got weaker at the offensive line.
00:31:57
Let's get stronger in the secondary.
00:31:59
And yet, if you can go get holiday or get a big receiver, maybe you have to do that because the issue is going to create Just what's that, General, What's that general perspective look like for you right now? Is there? If there's one last move to making free agency, what should it be for the Giants to set up the best possible draft well, so I was the unpopular opinion that the Giants should go offensive line with their pick at 11.
00:32:24
And it's It's not ***y.
00:32:26
It's not.
00:32:27
You're probably not going to go out and buy a first round guards jersey if you if he ends up getting drafted by the Giants.
00:32:34
But you see all these teams that are successful from building from the offensive line, it just helps everybody on the field.
00:32:40
Uh, that's a Adam that that's where I'm struggling because I have concerns about gala days injury history.
00:32:49
Um, and paying him a boatload of money is concerning to me.
00:32:53
Uh, I like Curtis Samuel.
00:32:55
I think he could be an interesting session.
00:32:58
I don't know if I'm going to like him at the money that he ends up getting, Um, so I I do look at what kind of edge rush linebacker help.
00:33:06
Can we get if the market is down right now and we can lock in one of these guys to a one year prove it deal or a two year, team friendly deal? We need to get some kind of pass rushing help because we haven't addressed that at all.
00:33:18
We hope that some of our guys coming back like Lorenzo Carter will provide a little bit more pressure on the quarterback.
00:33:22
Um, you know what I think for me? Ultimately, it comes down to what is the price of holiday? Because all these agents and all these people are saying that the wide receiver market is the coldest positional market in the entire league right now and that nobody is getting offers that they thought they were going to get.
00:33:42
It's the reason why Golladay hasn't been signed.
00:33:44
It's the reason juju Smith Schuster hasn't been signed.
00:33:46
It's the reason Curtis Samuel hasn't signed yet.
00:33:48
So if we're saying that all of a sudden the market is different on someone like Kenny Golladay and it goes from man, we're gonna have to pay him 18 19 million to can we get him for 15 million? That changes how I perceive that and I know we're talking about two or $34 million and we said sometimes that shouldn't matter on the player.
00:34:07
But when you're talking about top end of the market, getting a wide receiver that you think is it could be a number one for 15 million is a is a much better off season.
00:34:16
Moves for the Giants.
00:34:20
The Yeah, and I think that to me.
00:34:22
Talking with with pizza, Mike Yesterday. Pessimistic.
00:34:26
Michael Some No, Um, and just saying that I think the biggest holdup here is because it's been reported that most teams have concerns around the hip for holiday.
00:34:34
Holiday is the best wide receiver available on the market if he is healthy.
00:34:38
So until the holiday falls Smith Schuster and Curtis Samuel and all these other guys even and think about veterans like AJ Green, right? And uh, T Y Hilton, like all of these guys are waiting.
00:34:49
The entire wide receiver room is waiting for gala day to go to set the market, and then everything is going to get hierarchy down from there.
00:34:56
So I do wonder, What does that look like? And does? Is there ever going to be a threshold here where teams, giants or otherwise just say, Well, we are concerned, and we're trying to get a value deal on holiday.
00:35:07
Maybe a incentive, right? Play all 16 games, it bumps.
00:35:11
You have all those kind of things and get and get a better number.
00:35:14
But if Galloway is, you know, steadfast that he can return down, You know, $18 million a year deal extension from the Lions.
00:35:22
I I don't know if there's a point where teams go.
00:35:25
Okay, fine.
00:35:26
Then we're going to look at Smith Schuster.
00:35:27
Okay, fine.
00:35:28
Then we're going to look at The only difference here is he represents the very unique wide receiver that is the deep downfield threat and has the body and size, right? I mean, he's the unicorn on the market right now.
00:35:39
All these other guys, and there's a lot of talent there, but none of them are that pure outside threat that the Golladay represents.
00:35:45
Well, let me ask you a question.
00:35:46
So we all know that everybody's, uh, pretty keen on Kenny Golladay.
00:35:50
If we can get them at the right price, it sounds like overwhelmingly giant fans, you know, would like to bring him in the building.
00:35:56
Sorry. Let me real quick. Sorry.
00:35:58
Because I had thought Would you would you do it on a big deal on a big contract with the with the hip concern if they structured in the way like Leonard Williams and gave a very friendly team number the first year.
00:36:08
Would that move the needle for you at all? Is it still just about the overall contract and the health? I'm all about the overall contract with someone like Holiday.
00:36:16
I want him.
00:36:17
I'm not someone that wants him at all costs.
00:36:19
So I'm a little bit more cautious because of the injury history with him.
00:36:22
Um what? My question is actually the one person that I keep hearing giant fans say no matter what absolutely not is juju Smith Schuster, right? Like you hear most people say we'd love Samuel at the right price.
00:36:33
We loved holiday at the right price.
00:36:35
You know, I think we can end on this.
00:36:36
What's your take on juju? And it's, you know, if you don't like him, what is the number where all of a sudden you'd be like, Well, like if we can get them for that, that changes my perception, Or are you completely out? Even if he was a 51 year, $5 million your receiver? Yeah, it's weird.
00:36:54
So you know Smith Schuster.
00:36:56
It's like you almost forget he's only 24.
00:36:58
He's the same age as Curtis.
00:37:00
Samuel might be a little bit younger, younger by, you know, months or days.
00:37:03
Whatever it may be, these guys are basically same age entering free agency.
00:37:07
Look at the numbers.
00:37:08
308 catches over the first four years of his career.
00:37:09
Like Dude is talented.
00:37:12
I forgot about the locker room stuff and the issue.
00:37:16
You know, some of those issues there ultimately in Pittsburgh that he had.
00:37:20
That's probably the only concern, right? That's the only thing, because I I again I was just talking to people yesterday about this.
00:37:26
Like, Listen, if gala day, all things being equal, I loved holiday.
00:37:30
The health is a concern. For me.
00:37:32
Being 27 gonna be 28 years old.
00:37:33
I don't love that either.
00:37:35
I love the idea of adding a 24 25 year old wide receiver that can grow with Daniel Jones and this offense.
00:37:41
So, uh, I don't know, You know, what I would say is, if the difference between Smith Schuster and Curtis Samuel is three million a year, then maybe you love the character of Curtis Samuel and he can fit, and he's kind of scratching the surface of what he could be Maybe he's a late bloomer, Okay, that there's value there.
00:38:04
But at the difference between Gala Day and Smith, Schuster is one million I.
00:38:11
There's a world where I look at Smith Schuster and say, Okay, this is very versatile.
00:38:15
You can move them around the field, you have to then look at Shepherd in the same vein as inside outside slot wherever on the field, He's talented.
00:38:23
There's no denying that he is talented and numbers to numbers.
00:38:27
He's put up better numbers.
00:38:29
Though Golladay has missed games over the start of his career, he's put up better numbers over the first four years of his career.
00:38:35
So it is interesting.
00:38:36
It is interesting.
00:38:37
He doesn't represent the same physical specimen that holiday is, but he is an incredibly talented wide receiver.
00:38:42
What if I said to you the Giants could sign up for juju Smith Schuster for three years, $39 million? Right now, Do you do the deal? Three years? 39 million? Yep.
00:38:56
Boy, it's so interesting when you think about where the mark, you know, the market's been shifting, so I'm like, Is it isn't a great deal, or could it just be like kind of where it's on par with everything else.
00:39:03
I 13 13 million a year, 30 million year for juju. Smith Schuster.
00:39:08
It seems like it's kind of a hedge because it's not number one money, but it's like a really good number two money like, but it's a lot of money in this cap situation.
00:39:16
So like if he came to the Giants was like, I'll move away from all their off 13 year.
00:39:23
You have to highly consider it. You have.
00:39:26
You have to be in for it because especially if if you think no matter what some team is, God is going to say, You gotta pay me at least 17 18 million, right? Like I mean, like, even if it's coming down like he is like Leonard Williams, I want the contract.
00:39:38
I don't care what the market saying.
00:39:40
I want the contract that I want.
00:39:42
Someone's going to pay me that and someone will pay him that.
00:39:44
I think Smith Schuster can fall into the well, a couple of concerns here, whatever, but yeah, 13 million, Yeah, let's have some fun and the reason why 13 million is the number that that we threw out and we can get out of here on this one is because Nelson a girl or just signed a two year, $26 million deal with the Patriots.
00:40:02
He is making $13 million a year.
00:40:05
So the question is like if he's getting 13, how much is Smith Schuster worth? How much is Samuel Worth? And you know how How concerned are you with the holiday issues, right? Like like all this is kind of in a vacuum kind of nuts right back at you.
00:40:18
Then, though it's Ms Schuster was available for 13 a year.
00:40:22
What does that make? What does that make Kurtis Samuels contract? Well, that's what I'm saying.
00:40:26
What does it make? Samuel C 15 or 16 doesn't make Holiday 17 or 18 like I don't know.
00:40:32
I mean, maybe they think that a glorious turned it around, But to me, the wide receiver market is still the most fascinating piece of all of this.
00:40:38
Because a lot of the major players still have not dropped yet.
00:40:41
The Giants are in on At least we know Kenny Golladay having some interest.
00:40:46
They've talked about a little bit about Curtis Samuel and who knows Juju eventually would want to play in New York.
00:40:52
We'll see.
00:40:53
And listen, as we do start to get ourselves out the door, shout out to John Doe and to, uh, Josh over there on YouTube.
00:40:59
Thanks for joining in throughout.
00:41:00
Corey Davis signed for about 13 year, right? So you know, these numbers are weird.
00:41:05
Some players are getting different numbers that don't make sense relative to where we thought it was going to be.
00:41:10
And then others are getting ones that seems spot onto the market, as was predicted.
00:41:14
So we'll see how it continues to fold out.
00:41:16
I don't know what to anticipate, as far as what's going to happen with the Giants before the draft.
00:41:20
But you follow us on social media on YouTube at one giant podcast.
00:41:24
You can, of course, download rate review and subscribe wherever you get those podcast needs fulfilled.
00:41:28
Leave us that five star rating.
00:41:30
If you're a friend of the show, your family with us, and as Andy Marquis wants needs and demands that the people know as always.
00:41:38
Let's go Big blue.
00:41:41
Okay.
00:41:42
See you next time. Friends.
00:41:44
Yeah.
00:41:47
Mhm.
00:41:50
Mhm.
00:41:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah Mhm, yeah, yeah Mhm, yeah, yeah

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Adam Armbrecht @OneGiantPodcast Follow
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