SportsCastr - One Giant Podcast - Leonard Williams big money ask, Kevin Zeitler's new deal and Nate Solder's Revenge
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Podcast

One Giant Podcast

with Adam Armbrecht & Andy Mackiewicz

Adam Armbrecht@OneGiantPodcast

“One Giant Podcast” is a SportsCastr Featured Podcast all about the 4-time Super Bowl champion New York football Giants. Your hosts, Adam Armbrecht and Andy Mackiewicz balance the emotional roller coaster that is being a fan of Big Blue with cold hard numbers and analytics to give any Giants fan an expert’s perspective on their team.

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Description

Leonard Williams for $22m... or more? Take a breath, and know he is worth it. Kevin Zeitler lands a 3 year deal with Baltimore, can Adam find the sweet spot, and what doe it mean for the Free Agent market in general? Tomlinson continues to speak highly of the Giants, can they find a way to make it work and keep the dominant Defensive front in tact? Get your last listens before Wednesday where all hell could break loose!

Transcript

00:00:01
Welcome to the one giant podcast.
00:00:05
A SportsCastr featured podcast covering all things.
00:00:08
New York Football giants live every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning on SportsCastr, bringing balance to the ****ytics and emotions of covering Big Blue.
00:00:18
Here are your hosts Adam Arm Breaks and Andy Mecca Wick.
00:00:25
Yeah, and with that friends on a Monday morning on What is, I mean, what arguably the 7th 8th consecutive Nice, sunny, cool, breezy kind of weather on the East Coast.
00:00:38
Man, this has been a dream scenario for me as we tiptoe our way towards spring, joined as always by the healthy, wealthy and wise Andy Markowitz.
00:00:46
I mean, we only live less than an hour away from each other.
00:00:48
Adam.
00:00:49
It's like 15 degrees outside.
00:00:50
It is for rigid cold, right, right at the moment.
00:00:53
So maybe just take a step outside realized that it's not that 60 degrees we had, but nonetheless, it is sunny.
00:01:00
I'll give you that.
00:01:01
Well, you know, listen, the heats on the sunshine is coming in the window, so as far as I can tell, it's a beautiful day out.
00:01:08
We'll find out, though I listen.
00:01:09
I like it even when it's even when It is really chilly like this as long as the sun ish.
00:01:13
I got a sunburn on Sunday sitting out of my dad's backyard.
00:01:18
We sat outside, had a cup of coffee and just kinda shot the breeze as it were.
00:01:23
And listen, my pale Irish skin.
00:01:24
Yes, I got a sunburn in 20 minutes in mid afternoon in March.
00:01:30
Nothing, nothing like, you know, the spring season turning over.
00:01:34
And you're getting sunburn sitting in a patio chair when it's 45 degrees outside.
00:01:37
It could have been a wind burn.
00:01:38
We won't know for sure until we do the science.
00:01:41
We come in on a Monday and I mean, listen, we're getting towards now.
00:01:46
Free agency is going to be getting kicked off here.
00:01:48
We we kind of left last week saying, Here's all the information you need to know.
00:01:53
Here's what could come down the pike next.
00:01:55
And the immediate thing that comes up, of course, is Leonard Williams And what's going on? The contract.
00:02:00
You actually don't know what it was? Maybe on Saturday shot me a text.
00:02:04
Some new information has come to light.
00:02:06
New s has come to light, man.
00:02:08
It might not just be right.
00:02:10
Um, what are we What are we now thinking about here when we talk about the Leonard Williams contract, where they are negotiations and what Leonard Williams expectations are, So Giants Twitter is melting down as we speak.
00:02:25
It's like collapsing into itself right now.
00:02:29
Yeah, exactly.
00:02:31
This feels very Daniel Jones because there's nothing else really going on right now for the Giants.
00:02:35
Um, look, Leonard Williams is a member of the New York Giants C E.
00:02:42
Given the franchise tag, he can play for the Giants for $19 million this year.
00:02:48
The big challenges.
00:02:49
Everyone thought that a long term deal would be done by now because both sides said yes, we intend to get a long term deal done.
00:02:56
You know, some of the reports coming out over the weekend are saying, you know, Leonard Williams might be shooting for the moon here and asking for 22 23 a million dollars per year on whatever long term deal he does.
00:03:11
I think it was Dan Duggan came out and said, if you set the over under at 22 a half million per year, he would take the over on what he thinks Leonard Williams is going to be getting at the end of this whole thing.
00:03:23
And because of all this giant nation on Twitter and other social media, it's basically now saying, We're seeing the tag.
00:03:31
I like him at 19.
00:03:32
I hate him At 23 it's all over.
00:03:34
And like, I feel like I'm living in bizarro land at, um Well, because because by the way, like I had that you know, my my gut reaction because immediately we say the over, So I'm like, All right, fine, 20%.
00:03:44
25 million.
00:03:45
We're talking 25 million who, like you know, how could you possibly And then you take the brief pause and you say, Remember, the long term deal is supposed to be about breaking down that cap it.
00:03:56
So you know whether or not you're talking about 20,000,018 million, 23 million, whatever the number, maybe it's not going to represent that.
00:04:04
The worst case scenario, you know, if you want to put it in quotes, is he plays under the tag, and it represents that number, and there's no way to finagle that number in this upcoming season.
00:04:12
So you know, I took a bit of a gut check there, but then I remember just a couple episodes ago.
00:04:17
I said He's one of the premier players at that position in the NFL.
00:04:21
The Giants are in a position to have had and to continue to have that player on their team.
00:04:27
So, yeah, this is what the market.
00:04:29
This is what the market dictates.
00:04:30
For players like these, this is where the contracts probably should be in the let's just say, even a little wider right, 20 to 25 million per year.
00:04:38
Is it hard in a year like this with a cap? Of course, coming down? Sure.
00:04:43
But it doesn't change the fact that if you're Lenin Williams, you're probably not walking the door saying, I know that this is a down year, so let me adjust my expectations.
00:04:50
I'm thinking about signing a four year contract with you.
00:04:53
I wanted to be representative of what the NFL is going to look like almost every other year when it comes to contract.
00:04:59
So a brief toe in the water of man is this going to be worth it and then ultimately coming back to where I started most of this off season where I stayed this entire off season.
00:05:10
Bring back Leonard Williams on a contract.
00:05:12
There's really no limit to what you should want to pay him, and if it is, ends up being a number closer to 25 22 a half, you find a way to spread that money out over the course of the contract.
00:05:22
So I think there's a big distinction that giant fans need to think about in this whole negotiation and you touched on it, and I think it's the answer.
00:05:30
But if Leonard Williams gets $23 million but his cap it is nine million, are you? Are you upset like, Are you angry enough at the whatever the high dollar amount is that Leonard Williams is going to sign for like is that you're like, there's no way he's worth $23 million.
00:05:49
Like whose money is that? It's not your money.
00:05:51
It's not my money.
00:05:52
Like, have someone else go pay that money like what you actually care about is the cap hit because you want to sign a player.
00:05:58
I'm missing $23 million.
00:05:59
Open up in there, right? It's style wallet.
00:06:03
All my information is in there.
00:06:04
So when people are like 23 million, he's not worth it.
00:06:09
It's like it's not your money.
00:06:10
And if we can, if we can get the cap it down and be able to sign Dalvin Tomlinson, who cares what the number is? So I think Giants need to, you know, Giant Fan needs to take a step back and realize it's not your money.
00:06:21
Whether it's 25 21 2019 million for Lenin Williams, what is important is what is his cap hit for the Giants so that we can go make the team better in other areas in free agency? Yeah, that's what I think it comes down to.
00:06:35
So and by the way, uh, these things are in the public eye negotiations, right? So, I mean, all of these things are sending signals back and forth from both sides, right? Well, we'd love to have him here in a long term deal, but we do have them on a franchise tag, so he's going to play for us this upcoming season.
00:06:51
Yes, I want to be with the New York football giants, but I am seeking a contract between 22 25 million, right? And whatever the numbers end up settling.
00:07:00
This is a part of that process.
00:07:02
And you know it's hard because if you take it at its word, then you can say you can say anything here, right? The Giants don't want him. They want him.
00:07:09
It's 30 million.
00:07:10
It's $7 who knows? But somewhere in the middle of all that, you have heard from both sides that they are comfortable wanting to, you know they want Leonard. We want Leonard Williams.
00:07:19
He wants to be here.
00:07:20
That's gonna be in the details.
00:07:22
But you would.
00:07:23
You would assume it's all still going that direction.
00:07:25
The reason for everyone's hysteria is free agency starts on Wednesday.
00:07:30
Everyone knows that these free agents are going to be signing very quickly.
00:07:34
A lot of the top guys will take their top dollar right out of the gate.
00:07:37
If the Giants don't really have the cap space because they haven't figured out a deal with Leonard Williams, it hinders them in terms of going and getting some of the big fish that are that are sure to sign contracts within the first 3 to 5 days of free agency.
00:07:49
So, you know, if Leonard Williams deal can't really get done, then guys like Kenny Golladay are going to be a pipe dream for the Giants.
00:07:55
If the Giants can find a way to work something out with Leonard Williams, then there's an opportunity for one of those upper echelon guys on offense or defense to potentially be a possibility for the Giants.
00:08:07
Yeah, when you talk about a guy like Dalvin Tomlinson, right, that's when you throw it in there.
00:08:10
Now, maybe the Giants can benefit with him or saying You're gonna go into free agency if you get a you know, just talk to us.
00:08:16
Let's stay in communication about it.
00:08:18
You can do that with a guy that was on your team, right? You can have that relationship there and say, Well, we're working on later Williams, and maybe you're part of the deal, if that's what the Giants intend to do but a holiday he's not, you know.
00:08:28
Hey, uh, Kenny, if you don't mind, just give us a couple extra days. Give us so Friday.
00:08:33
I know you're going to get a lot of money thrown at you, and we can't officially offer you anything, but, you know, just wait and see.
00:08:39
You're not gonna get that type of grace period with free agents from other teams, right? Yeah.
00:08:44
And, uh, side note on Dalvin tomlinson.
00:08:47
So obviously he's an important piece of the puzzle to this.
00:08:49
Um, Sports Illustrated just released an exclusive interview with Dalvin Tomlinson from about 15 20 minutes ago.
00:08:56
We also like how free agency is, what's going on, What's the deal? And, um, you know Dalvin Tomlinson said he loves his time in New York.
00:09:04
He wants to be a giant.
00:09:06
He pictures himself being a giant for life, but he also understands there is a business side of it.
00:09:13
And with the Giants cap situation, he knows it's going to be tough for them to figure out how to make the money work.
00:09:18
But he's basically saying all things considered, I get why they're doing things the way they are because of the capital that they're in.
00:09:25
I would like to be a giant if we could figure this out, which, for Giant fans, even him, saying that is encouraging, knowing that, like we he owes us nothing, we didn't franchise tag him.
00:09:34
We're just telling him niceties.
00:09:36
But we're not actually backing it up with dollars and cents right now.
00:09:38
So for him to be able to say, well, they could figure this out.
00:09:41
I want to stick around the fact that he's even talking about the Giants the way that he is is encouraging.
00:09:46
And, you know, if Leonard Williams can get this deal done, then maybe we have an opportunity to get Calvin because he is going to be a hot commodity on the market.
00:09:54
And he may sign just as quickly as someone like our old friend Kevin Zeitler just did As soon as we get into him, I had remembered you mentioning Dalvin Tomlinson.
00:10:02
We talked about the idea of getting the tag on him potentially.
00:10:05
But that was something in the vein of.
00:10:07
If we can get Leonard Williams on a long term deal two weeks ago, then we can look to retain Dalvin Tomlinson on a one year franchise tag and worry about his contract going to next season.
00:10:16
So Pipe dream shot down on the other side of it, though, as you mentioned, a guy that left the team is Kevin Zeitler and so you know we talked about it at the time.
00:10:26
You said they are trying to restructure him.
00:10:29
They're trying to, you know, work with the deal and see what's possible.
00:10:32
Ultimately, even though that that was the story line coming out, as we said, Well, it takes both parties to want to do that.
00:10:37
Kevin Zeitler didn't feel like I.
00:10:39
I don't need to take a reduction in my cap.
00:10:42
It Maybe if I play drop off a little bit, Yes, you can make that argument.
00:10:46
We also acknowledge that he was the most consistent being a 31 year old veteran on the offensive line this past season, but he ends up signing out on the free agency market.
00:10:54
What are the details of where he landed and, quite frankly, landed quickly, Right? Right.
00:10:58
He found a new home very quickly for all the guys that are falling onto the market on offensive from the offensive line, you found a new home almost immediately.
00:11:05
Well, Zeiler was very smart with how he went about this.
00:11:09
He basically I'm not gonna put words into his mouth, but it was like let's figure out if we could come to an agreement with the Giants as quickly as possible.
00:11:17
If we can't great, let me hit the market before the market is saturated with all these cap casualties.
00:11:23
And so in that regard, it's interesting He was able to land a deal with the Baltimore Ravens before anyone else was was even hitting the market.
00:11:34
So he got, he got ahead of it, Uh, you know, and and was able to set his market.
00:11:37
And Adam, we talked a little bit off line.
00:11:39
Do you? If you had to guess how much money Zeiler is worth per year on the open market, What is that number? What type of contract would you expect him to receive from someone like the Baltimore Ravens? Yeah, it's interesting, because when we talked about it, we thought, You know, you try to bring that cap hit down to closer to 10 million or something if you're the Giants on a restructure.
00:12:00
But even when we said that we did our research around the league saying, Well, you know, the freakin a player of that caliber, maybe in the 6 to 8 million kind of range per year.
00:12:11
But maybe it's used a little lower because of the off season that it is and where the cap numbers are.
00:12:17
How many? How many years is it? Give me the years.
00:12:20
It was a three year deal.
00:12:22
Three year deal.
00:12:23
So then what would that, uh, three years? Wow, I think I almost I won't belabor this.
00:12:33
I was almost gonna say, three years. 24.
00:12:35
But that number sounds hot like it sounds high.
00:12:38
Let's go three, let's say three years, 20 million and I won't even bother with the guarantees.
00:12:43
Split the baby right down the middle.
00:12:45
It was three years, $22 million.
00:12:48
The guarantees are what's interesting in this.
00:12:50
$16 million guaranteed.
00:12:53
Basically what the Ravens did.
00:12:55
As they said, Come play for us for about 7.
00:12:57
5 million a year and we'll guarantee the first two years of your contract.
00:13:02
And he signed on the dotted line.
00:13:03
That's how simple that deal was.
00:13:04
And you know, does does that mean anything go down.
00:13:08
By the way, you know, I could have got high and just being completely out of the prize that you were still at it.
00:13:12
You did not go over.
00:13:13
So you're you're still eligible for the big prize at the end.
00:13:16
Um, you know what I found fascinating about this deal? Adam, is it? Khanna says that the Giants and him really had no intentions.
00:13:25
At least one party had no intentions of trying to make something work because the Giants could have gotten his cap hit down significantly.
00:13:32
If they reworked the deal, they could have extended him to a deal very similar to this.
00:13:37
I think a couple of giant beat reporters were saying, You know, if the Giants were gonna extend them and make it a three year deal, they were saying that the Giants would pay him 29 million over the three years.
00:13:45
Just to be able to get us out of the cap situation that we're in, he gets released.
00:13:50
He goes to a contender like the Baltimore Ravens, and he's making 7.
00:13:53
5 million and getting 16 million guaranteed.
00:13:56
It's surprising because the Giants would have had to over pay a little bit to keep their own guy.
00:14:00
Instead, they parted ways.
00:14:02
Well, you know, that's what's fascinating about it, and we don't talk about the spectrum of what people are saying, right, Dave Gettleman come out and we said it last episode, right? Kick the can down the road.
00:14:11
You don't want to restructure deals, and you want to have that contract in your mind and listen.
00:14:15
But everybody does do that.
00:14:16
That's a part of retaining this talent.
00:14:18
But I think what this what this should indicate to you and the questions we keep asking ourselves are.
00:14:23
What is the confidence in the rest of this offensive line for the Giants? It's a youth movement.
00:14:27
You're trying to rebuild it.
00:14:28
I think that this has to be an indication that the Giants at least feel pretty good about all the pieces they have.
00:14:34
They're not all the most of them right, the Thomases, the parts, the gates, maybe even a Shane Lemieux who knows about a will Will Hernandez at this point.
00:14:41
But you feel pretty good about them because otherwise you might have said, You know what? Let's just do let's just do this thing.
00:14:49
Let's over pay to keep this veteran on our team so that we don't feel like we're grasping at straws going into the year.
00:14:55
Instead, you look across it, you feel pretty good about it and you realize that value because by the way, even at because I always said I said 68 million.
00:15:03
But I think the number may have been a little bit lower based on the rating of settlers performance.
00:15:07
So he probably got a little bit extra and it would make sense from the Ravens, a team that is in a wind now kind of mentality.
00:15:13
So they're going to over pay a little bit.
00:15:15
Don't let other teams get into the market with you and start to, you know, dance and throw numbers out in front of Hitler.
00:15:20
So the world where the Giants would have overpaid on on what could be a slight overpaid on the market for settler, It's probably for the best that they didn't do it.
00:15:28
And this is also about we want to be competitive.
00:15:32
We I know we want to win.
00:15:33
Now remember where we are, right? Like this is a big picture thing.
00:15:37
And if if a year from now you have a 32 going to be 33 year old settler on your roster, staring at this cap number, even if it wasn't a short term, I think Giants fans would be again looking at that and saying, boy, you know, What are we doing here? What are we gonna How are we gonna get this number off the books? Yeah, let's not go too overboard with some of these, like, knee jerk moves to be able to just, like, deal with the cap this year, knowing the caps gonna jump tremendously and the Giants are going to have tens of millions of the Giants are going to be one of the top seven or eight teams in terms of cap space next year.
00:16:07
According to where all these different contracts light because they haven't paid sick one.
00:16:11
Barkley.
00:16:12
They haven't paid Daniel Jones.
00:16:13
They haven't paid Evan Engram. They haven't played Jabrill peppers.
00:16:15
So, like there's guys that are coming up for contracts.
00:16:17
But the Giants have tons of cap space so we can figure out a way to keep the nucleus hole here.
00:16:23
And yes, you know, the byproduct of that is going to be guys like Zettler have to go explore free agency and we're going to have to release them.
00:16:29
But next year we're going to have flush with cap space.
00:16:32
We could look to sign another 30 year old guard for 7 to $8 million and reset this whole thing over and over again.
00:16:38
The key to this is do not because of the shrunken cap.
00:16:42
Let a guy that could be here for five years and be part of the foundation of the success of the Giants.
00:16:48
When we start making playoff runs, don't kick him to the side of the road just because we're trying to sneak a couple million dollars underneath the cap.
00:16:54
It's these fringe guys that aren't gonna be around long term.
00:16:57
That might be a little older, that we can always go out and get in free agency when we have a little bit more money.
00:17:02
Yeah, I don't know that that that that is the perfect tie back into Leonard Williams, right? Don't get scared about what the cap number represents this year and what that feels like, etcetera.
00:17:12
This is a 25 26 year old cornerstone piece to your defense.
00:17:16
This is a long term player you want to retain, not a Kevin Zeitler who again a year from now, you could be saying, Well, we drafted a guy in last year's draft.
00:17:23
He's ready to replace him.
00:17:24
We can move on from him, how we're gonna move on from the money, etcetera.
00:17:26
So, no, I think that's a really important thing for Giants fans to remember to not.
00:17:30
Don't overreact on these things again.
00:17:32
I don't have a moment like I did.
00:17:33
And if you do, do it quietly to yourself or inside a private message with your with your co host and then clean it up before you get out there in front of the public eye.
00:17:40
The other piece that we talk about here, though, is of course, and this is opportunity.
00:17:45
We'll take a little, take a little victory lap before we do, though I can't just let you have the stage.
00:17:50
We have done a nice job, I think, this offseason of predicting where things are going to go.
00:17:54
We still need to see ultimately how Leonard Williams shakes out what happens with Dalvin Tomlinson.
00:17:59
But as it stands right now, I think the the cautious kind of the logical steps to take the reasonable steps to take seem to be happening for the Giants thus far.
00:18:08
And that's why you get to, as we say, a soldier returns to the trenches for Big Blue Nate Solder will be back on this team.
00:18:16
As of right now, the details haven't come out exactly what the new contract looks like.
00:18:21
But he they were able to restructure a deal with soldier to bring him back to take the stage, sir.
00:18:28
Yeah, I mean it.
00:18:31
Reading the tea leaves on everything that was going to happen this offseason.
00:18:35
Soldier coming back was was a really interesting one because every giant fan immediately said no.
00:18:40
He sat out.
00:18:41
He stunk before that.
00:18:42
Cut them, get any money you can.
00:18:44
Let's move on.
00:18:45
Let's keep, keep keep, you know, moving forward on this thing.
00:18:48
But when you actually think about it, the Giants are desperate for tackle help.
00:18:54
And you look at they had can Fleming.
00:18:56
Last year they drafted Andrew Thomas.
00:18:57
They drafted Matt Peart.
00:18:59
They're trying to make things work.
00:19:00
You know, solder opting out last year threw a huge wrench in all of the plans.
00:19:04
You know, Matt Peart was thrust into things.
00:19:06
Andrew Thomas was thrust into being solidified, as are left tackle from day one.
00:19:10
For good or for bad.
00:19:12
And now you know Nate soldiers coming back.
00:19:14
We knew that because of his cap hit.
00:19:17
He wasn't going to be on this roster long term unless he worked out an agreement with the Giants.
00:19:22
And I think he kind of looked around the league said, I don't know what my market is right now, but I also like it being in New York.
00:19:30
I have a lot of other personal things outside of football that have gone on the last couple of years.
00:19:34
Maybe some stability in the organization can can be helpful.
00:19:38
And so the reports are that Nate Solder is going to take a restructured contract, a k a.
00:19:43
A nice little pay cut in order to stay with the Giants.
00:19:46
And the most important number is going to be what is Nate Soldiers cap hit? And so because of all of the different math that's going on at him, the number to look out for for Nate solder doing during this restructure is $4 million salary because $4 million salary would put his cap it at about 10 million, which is the exact same cap it he would have if we just outright cut him tomorrow.
00:20:11
So you have to expect the Giants had that negotiation with Nate and said, Look, we can either release you or we could get you down to this number If you want to be a part of this.
00:20:19
We do see you being in our plans, but we have to get the money down.
00:20:23
So over under is going to be about $4 million for Nate in terms of salary.
00:20:27
What are your thoughts about that? I'm fine with it in the short term.
00:20:31
You know, I think it makes sense, right.
00:20:33
And this is the difference between Kevin Zeitler and Nate Solder.
00:20:35
Kevin Zeitler had a market for himself, right? Kevin Zeitler played last season.
00:20:40
The side note to this is, uh, you know, Nate Solder came out and said, I'm not in football shape.
00:20:45
I didn't stay in football shape this past year away from the game, like just total honesty, right? Talk to Joe Judge.
00:20:50
At the press conference, he said, Listen, I've had conversations with Nate, hasn't been about football.
00:20:55
It's been about his personal life.
00:20:56
It's been about how things have been going, etcetera.
00:20:59
That piece of it is important.
00:21:01
And for whatever it's worth, I do like being a Giants fan for moments like these where an organization is choosing to do something right by a player.
00:21:10
But they really don't have to. They don't have any.
00:21:12
They don't need to do this. The caveat.
00:21:14
Artist.
00:21:15
So this doesn't change the fact that come June 1, the Giants could still move on from Nate Solder.
00:21:22
I think this is still the short term answer of Hey, help us create cap flexibility right now in this moment, try to get yourself back into shape, try to get yourself into camp.
00:21:33
Let's see how you look and if you play reasonable backup swing tackle, and that's why I want to get into a second here.
00:21:39
But if you play, if you look reasonable at $4 million yes, you're worth keeping around, right? What, are we going to get another Cannes film on the open market? It's all relative in the event that we that the draft goes a different way that, you know, some other things unfold.
00:21:55
There still could be a world where the Giants part ways with Nate Soldier, but at $4 million that's a great as you say, veteran guy locker room presence.
00:22:04
A lot of young guys on the line, I'm perfectly comfortable with that going into the year.
00:22:10
The question then becomes the role piece of it right, and all indications are the most likely is swing tackle.
00:22:17
That's the most likely scenario.
00:22:19
He's the backup swing tackle behind Thomas and behind part doesn't mean you're handing part the starting job.
00:22:24
But if you're a Giants fan you wanted to be.
00:22:27
The person gets the starting job and soldier is the backup.
00:22:30
That's the most likely scenario they've thrown out.
00:22:32
The idea of could end up in this.
00:22:34
I mean, this is just media speculation.
00:22:36
Could he start at right tackle ahead of part? Sure it's on the table.
00:22:39
I don't think that that would be a good thing for the Giants overall.
00:22:42
And then the last piece was, Could he do something he's never done in his career? And that's play guard.
00:22:49
You know, I I know that it's a less high profile spot on the line, so maybe feasibly you could get in there.
00:22:55
And I think if you want to go, I'll go positive here.
00:22:59
Having him on the roster ended.
00:23:00
A reasonable number just gives you the flexibility.
00:23:03
Let's say the draft doesn't unfold the way we hope, and we miss an early garden early offensive line that we want to go after or something falls there at 11, whether it is pits, whether it's a wide receiver, whether it you know whether it ends up being Parsons, right? Any number of things can happen early in the draft where you end up pushing back, getting an offensive lineman, and then maybe you have this little safety net.
00:23:25
I'm not.
00:23:26
I'm not putting a lot of expectations on that soldier like that's bottom line.
00:23:30
And I don't think I don't think Giants fans should be pleasantly surprised if he comes out and looks decent.
00:23:35
I I still think that, you know, there's a world where this guy, this guy gets a lot of, you know, d NPS on Sundays.
00:23:42
That's where I think this is going, and I and I still think there's value of having him here.
00:23:47
I know.
00:23:48
Uh, if you could see Andy, I think that he has a different take on on what belongs on what the plan is here going to the season.
00:23:55
I mean, this is such a win for the Giants.
00:23:58
If they can make this work out and he makes less than $4 million a year.
00:24:02
Remember Cam Fleming signed a one year, $3.
00:24:05
5 million deal, right? Camp Fleming's upside or his best is nowhere near the upside.
00:24:14
That older years old Navy soldier is a far better player to have at four or even, I'll even say, even a $5 million versus 3.1.
00:24:22
I would rather have soldier on the roster than Cam Fleming, right? And so there are a lot of ifs on this one.
00:24:28
Adam and I can totally understand the reservations that you have.
00:24:31
We haven't seen Nate play football in a year.
00:24:34
We haven't seen a play good football into a couple of years, right? So, like there's There's two caveats there, of course, but I do think, and this is to your point.
00:24:43
There are a couple of areas where I think it would be interesting to explore with Nate.
00:24:48
One is I said it a couple of weeks ago.
00:24:51
There is a world where Nate Solder is our starting right tackle.
00:24:54
Like I still this is this All that's happened since we had that conversation continues to keep that as a possibility.
00:25:03
Now we drafted Matt Peart.
00:25:05
And obviously Giant fans would love to see one of our guys who drafted with a mid round selection, continue to develop and be that type of asset that we could build around long term.
00:25:13
But we also just need to make sure Daniel Jones doesn't get killed.
00:25:16
And while Medford did not play terrible Nate solder at his best is potentially better than that pert right now.
00:25:26
But we haven't seen that best from Nate Solder in years.
00:25:29
So for me, I like the upside of this, knowing that it's only gonna cost four million.
00:25:33
It's not really changing the cap ramifications for us.
00:25:36
We basically told me that was going to be the case, and to your point, we moved Nick Gates inside to play center.
00:25:42
He had never played center before.
00:25:44
That worked out pretty good.
00:25:46
There is a world where hey, look, Matt part looks great.
00:25:48
He's continuing to advance.
00:25:50
We just let Zettler go, can make kick inside and maybe provide us a little bit of swing position at guard.
00:25:56
Could he be a really good guard on a $4 million deal? All of those things would be wins for the Giants.
00:26:01
I think he can get healthy.
00:26:03
I think he's going to get in football shape over the over the coming months now that the Giants have officially kind of told them that they're going to restructure this deal now, we just move forward, saying, Get in football shape, get that strength back and let's figure out where across this line you could fit.
00:26:17
Yeah, you know, I mentioned him there before.
00:26:19
Let's say you know Dave, Gettleman said.
00:26:21
He came out.
00:26:22
Listen, I thought the offensive line finished, you know, pretty strong.
00:26:24
At the end of the year, you can go down the line, basically everybody.
00:26:27
I mean, very early in the year we got confident Nick Gates in that transition.
00:26:31
He seemed to settle in nicely after a couple of maybe rough weeks.
00:26:34
Thomas took took a while, but the second half of his year was very strong.
00:26:38
And by the way, I'll push back on any of these general talk radio afternoon in the New York area when they talk about Giants football and they say, Well, I have Thomas, but look at how many pressures he gave up.
00:26:48
If you're not gonna go into the nuance of like, Yeah, 80% of those were in the first half of the season verse.
00:26:53
The second half that I really can't have a conversation with you about it.
00:26:56
Thomas Thomas looked better part.
00:26:58
I think you know, it's a small sample size, right, and it's it's in and out.
00:27:01
But the question becomes, there's two parts of it.
00:27:05
If if you think that I'm not, I'm not even disputing it.
00:27:08
But at his best mate, Soldier could be a better option at right tackle this year than Matt Peart.
00:27:14
But if the margin is small enough, then you go with Matt Peart because you're talking about a year to you know, Year two.
00:27:20
You want this guy to develop.
00:27:21
You want the future to be happening in front of you right now.
00:27:25
The other piece, though, would be, and I think you can start to see whether it's clearing cap confidence in Nate solder, etcetera or even through training camp.
00:27:33
Will Hernandez, right? Will Hernandez.
00:27:35
You can clear a couple million if you were to outright release him. He's still young.
00:27:39
He lost his job essentially to a Shane Lemieux.
00:27:42
So even if you're not bullish on Shane Lemieux.
00:27:45
Then what do you think about about a guy like, Well, Hernandez.
00:27:48
So the other piece, outside of competing with Matt Peart, which maybe I would be less inclined to support, right? I would plugs Nate solder and to be the backup swing tackle, and I keep them for the year, no questions asked.
00:27:59
I'm fine with it if you tell me that he's competing for the starting right tackle job.
00:28:03
I'm a little bit wary of that, because rather purple, you know, I'd rather perfect having that shot.
00:28:07
But if you tell me that he's coming in to compete for a guard position and essentially, you want to say solder Hernandez Lemieux and then we'll see what happens in the draft.
00:28:17
But predraft, the intention is, here's three guys, one veteran changing positions.
00:28:22
If he wins the starting right guard job, so be it.
00:28:24
Because I'm not Pot committed on Will Hernandez.
00:28:28
And even to a lesser extent, I'm not pot committed on Shane Lemieux.
00:28:32
I don't think the Giants, we're dying to have him get reps last year, right? I think Will Hernandez forced their hand into giving you know Shane Lemieux reps.
00:28:42
And he looked way better than maybe you'd expect 1/5 round pick to look, but I would understand him needing another half a year to season himself.
00:28:49
So be very interesting to see how that plays out.
00:28:51
That's where I think Soldier can make real headway.
00:28:54
If he wants to be a contributor on this line, well, the other.
00:28:57
The other key piece of this puzzle is that the Giants don't have cap space, so we can't go out and sign free agents swing tackles right now in free agency because we don't have the money to do it.
00:29:08
So, like locking in someone like Nate solder to a smaller deal.
00:29:13
At worst, be a backup swing.
00:29:16
Offensive lineman is a great move for the chance because we don't have the flexibility to go out on the market and go pick up a guy when we have.
00:29:23
We don't have this limited cap space.
00:29:24
So you know Nate, soldiers cap.
00:29:28
It is post June 1.
00:29:29
We can bring. Bring that cap it down further.
00:29:31
That is, after free agency.
00:29:33
That's after the draft.
00:29:34
So having him on this roster, at least if the bottom falls out and we swing and a miss and we get nothing in free agency and we get nothing in the draft.
00:29:43
At least you have that security blanket to say we have a veteran could be great in the locker room.
00:29:47
You can be that swing tackle can put him in in a pinch.
00:29:50
And at the very least, that's something to build upon and at least allows you to say Okay, now we can address the draft in certain ways.
00:29:56
We could go after a guard or a backup tackle and and build our team from there.
00:30:00
But keeping him is huge because the cap number being as low as it is, if he can.
00:30:05
If he can restructure this and get down to under $4 million it's a huge win for the Giants, and it resets.
00:30:11
You know, things for Giant fans with Nate Solder.
00:30:14
I think, yeah, no, no.
00:30:16
He could end up going out.
00:30:19
How about that? Well, let's close out on that idea.
00:30:22
Nate Soldier could go from being the highest paid starting left tackle, the biggest contract ever given out to a free agent left tackle, then covering the spectrum of the disappointment that has been his Giants career and he could end up closing out the last two years of his career as a veteran backup offensive lineman.
00:30:42
Locker room presence, great leader.
00:30:45
You know, all the intangibles that we know Joe Judge really loves.
00:30:48
And he could somehow end up morphing value right out of that.
00:30:54
Out of out of what? Really up.
00:30:55
I mean, at least until this point as well, right? Like everyone is saying, God, what a disaster.
00:30:59
One of the worst ones.
00:31:00
You're never going to clean up the money that you spent on him at the time and the initial return on investment.
00:31:05
But if he ends up again, if he ends up giving you two years as a veteran backup swing tackle, I'll end up saying man like, Listen, it worked out.
00:31:12
You know, whatever ended up, he ended up being valuable to the team.
00:31:15
Right? And it's never gonna change.
00:31:17
We talk about this with past contracts, Right? You say about jpp is a great example, right? Well, the giant at the time everyone said no, it makes sense.
00:31:24
You gotta move off of them, right? You know, Listen, the guy doesn't really, You know, the stats aren't quite there anymore.
00:31:28
It's a big number.
00:31:29
You're not gonna trade him.
00:31:30
Then he has some really big years and win another Super Bowl with Tampa Bay.
00:31:33
Everyone goes.
00:31:34
Remember when you could have just brought him back? We'll know it's chicken or the egg here, but I really do like the idea.
00:31:40
On a personal level, I like the idea of Nate Soldier, Soldier being a guy that gets to reclamation reputation with the Giants.
00:31:46
A simple, simple answer.
00:31:47
We'll bring it back to what we said about Leonard Williams. One.
00:31:50
The money spent on Nate solder is not your money.
00:31:52
Check your bank account.
00:31:53
Check your routing numbers.
00:31:54
No one took any money from you for Nate Solder.
00:31:57
So who cares what he gets to? You may have a bad taste in your mouth about the money that was spent before, but if he renegotiates, look at it forward thinking if Nate Solder is going to sign a two year, $4 million per year deal, like if you think that's how it's gonna go in your head, of course, you sign up for a swing tackle for $4 million over two years like that.
00:32:16
That's a no brainer for giant fan, So I know that it's frustrating because he was supposed to be the left tackle of the future.
00:32:21
Guess what? We've made changes to those plans.
00:32:24
Andrew Thomas is our left tackle in the future.
00:32:26
If they can provide value, he may be able to ride off in the sunset in a completely different role for the Giants.
00:32:31
And Giant fans won't have this sour taste in their mouth thinking that he was going to be the future left tackle.
00:32:35
Maybe if he's just a contributor to a potential playoff team in the Giants, then we'd be very happy with with what happened with Nate Solder.
00:32:43
I love it.
00:32:44
We'll circle up on the back, and here we may have to come in on Wednesday with the start of free agency highlights.
00:32:47
Some of the bargain shopping the Giants may want to do because that's where they need to live.
00:32:51
If they're going to bring in any additional talent, you can follow us on social media, one giant podcast.
00:32:55
You can download rate, give a five star review to the podcast if you don't mind.
00:33:00
And until next time, as Andy MCA wits would want need to demand that.
00:33:03
You know, as always.
00:33:05
Let's go Big blue Yeah, yeah, yeah Mhm yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Mhm, yeah! Mhm!

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