SportsCastr - One Giant Podcast - Kevin Zeitler Released, Dave Gettleman's "Perspective", and N'Keal Harry chatter
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Podcast

One Giant Podcast

with Adam Armbrecht & Andy Mackiewicz

Adam Armbrecht@OneGiantPodcast

“One Giant Podcast” is a SportsCastr Featured Podcast all about the 4-time Super Bowl champion New York football Giants. Your hosts, Adam Armbrecht and Andy Mackiewicz balance the emotional roller coaster that is being a fan of Big Blue with cold hard numbers and analytics to give any Giants fan an expert’s perspective on their team.

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Description

The guys are back talking New York Giants Football. Kevin Zeitler is gone after the Giants could not restructure or trade him. Dave Gettleman says restructuring and "kicking the can down the road" is bad, as rumors swirl they are trying to restructure and kick the Nate Solder contract down the road.
Adam also gets excited about clearing cap and thorn-in-his-side Evan Engram in a possible trade with the Patriots for N'Keal Harry.
Lastly, a sentiment around Dalvin Tomlinson and why the Giants should still do everything possible to retain the 27 year old homegrown DT.

https://linktr.ee/Onegiantpodcast

Transcript

00:00:03
welcome to the one giant podcast.
00:00:05
A SportsCastr featured podcast covering all things.
00:00:08
New York football giants live every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning on SportsCastr, bringing balance to the ****ytics and emotions of covering Big Blue.
00:00:18
Here are your hosts Adam Arm Breck and Andy Metallic.
00:00:23
And with that friends, we welcome you into the Friday edition of the one giant podcast, as you heard live all across the spectrum, including YouTube today.
00:00:34
So we're really expanding the brand, as we like to say, You can follow us over there if you want to see my beautiful face at the early hours on Friday, along with the healthy, wealthy and wise Mr Andrew Markowitz.
00:00:45
I woke up this morning, Adam, thinking, I feel bad for people in San Diego when it's just beautiful weather every single day.
00:00:53
Like it's been miserable in the Northeast for a couple of months now, and all of a sudden yesterday it was like 65 degrees.
00:00:59
Today it's like 58.
00:01:01
When I woke up and I'm out walking the dog in shorts and a T shirt, I'm like, Let's go, baby.
00:01:05
They have it every day.
00:01:06
They don't even know how good they have it at them.
00:01:08
Appreciation, right? You just don't.
00:01:10
You don't You don't get it for free.
00:01:12
You gotta earn it right the last four days or so, where the sun has been out for the first time in two months, it feels like, Yeah, Yeah.
00:01:18
Feel free to soak it in.
00:01:19
Friends.
00:01:20
Get some vitamin D for yourselves before we dive in here.
00:01:23
Uh, Andy, I I got to ask you, Do you Do you believe in comeback stories? Do you believe in the spirit of the human condition that rises up and overcomes? I do, Adam.
00:01:39
I do indeed.
00:01:40
And do you quack, quack, quack, quack, Mighty dogs.
00:01:47
Do you believe in the Mighty Ducks? Do you believe in Coach Bombay? I do.
00:01:53
Although he did let Charlie take the shot only because he was dating his mother.
00:01:59
And so, like, there was this big conflict of interest there that doesn't get talked about enough on the Mighty Ducks.
00:02:03
My dad, like he wasn't the best player, but like he was dating them mom and wanted to make the mom happy.
00:02:08
And all of a sudden, Charlie's taking like one of the most important shots of the Mighty Ducks.
00:02:12
But I digress as a child, more concerning right.
00:02:16
But now, as an adult, I look and I go.
00:02:18
I get it.
00:02:19
Bombay, right? You know what I mean? Listen, we're all trying to get some things accomplished Here is not just about winning regional youth hockey tournaments, although ultimately to the USA.
00:02:28
By the bottom line is your friends.
00:02:29
Uh, there's some game changers coming to Disney plus the Mighty Ducks, you back and coach.
00:02:34
It will be available as a spiritual guide to these youths.
00:02:38
I I tell your friends, I know it's off on a tangent here, but Mighty Ducks is.
00:02:43
I mean, that's in the wheelhouse of of our age demographic.
00:02:46
So feel free to get pumped up.
00:02:47
Come here a week away.
00:02:49
You know what's crazy? Where? I thought you were going with that when you talked about comeback stories.
00:02:54
I thought you were talking about our friend Nate solder like I thought you were bringing it right to the New York football giants right away.
00:03:00
But you're going Quack quack, Mighty Ducks.
00:03:02
Maybe Goldberg in one of the second ones.
00:03:04
I don't know if you like the knuckle puck, but there's a lot going on there that we could we could discuss and unpack.
00:03:09
We can probably even do a whole Mighty Ducks podcast at some point.
00:03:13
The listeners want to may have to shut this down.
00:03:15
Right now.
00:03:16
I have some serious thinking and organising to do, but for the time being, friends, pick that up, put in your back pocket and enjoy yourselves.
00:03:22
We'll be back with our review later in the month.
00:03:24
For the for now, though, we have to go in on.
00:03:27
We came in on Tuesday because there was a lot of good information, so we kind of delayed to wait to get some of that.
00:03:32
But even inside of that information, we were still just tiptoeing on the line of some big and breaking decisions for the New York football giants.
00:03:41
We start, of course, with the fact that Kevin Zeitler is released by the New York football Giants.
00:03:46
We kind of I think when you heard that they were trying to shop them and we'll, we'll restructure them.
00:03:52
We also consider trading him.
00:03:53
It all just kind of pointed in this direction of right, so he's too expensive.
00:03:59
It costs too much.
00:04:00
We don't have the cat flexibility.
00:04:01
He's going to be probably the first casualty, anything overly surprising about this? I know we're treading on very dangerous ground of anti Mackel.
00:04:09
It's just getting the very glorious here.
00:04:11
I mean, Adam, you know me.
00:04:13
I'm a very humble guy.
00:04:14
I don't like to take victory laps ever, and I certainly don't like to take victory laps when I think releasing a guy makes us a worse team.
00:04:23
What I said, at least not publicly.
00:04:26
I mean, listen, we've got a barrage, of course, of course, offline.
00:04:29
But I don't want the listeners knowing that I've already taken victory multiple victory laps with you.
00:04:33
Um, you know, I think with Larry, this is something I expected coming.
00:04:38
And the and the reason why is a couple things one.
00:04:41
He's 33 two.
00:04:43
He was good.
00:04:45
Not not great when it when it comes to his performance on the field, 2019, he performed great.
00:04:52
He was easily our best offensive lineman.
00:04:53
He was a top tier guard.
00:04:55
He slowly started to deteriorate, And the big problem is, with the cap shrinking over $15 million this year, there's just not room to pay a guard $14 million to just be middle of the road like we just can't afford it.
00:05:10
And and the last piece of it is because there was so little dead cap hit money associated to him.
00:05:17
That was a huge chunk of money that needed to be freed up for the Giants.
00:05:21
And Zeiler is going to have a market because he is a good guard.
00:05:25
But the Giants couldn't afford to pay 14 million.
00:05:27
They get, you know, 12 million in cap relief.
00:05:30
It comes out to about 10 10 million in capital in total for the Giants freed up.
00:05:34
That's money that you could put right away towards something like Leonard Williams extension that you're working on.
00:05:39
Yeah, and when you need to free up that room as we mentioned the tag on Tuesday for Leonard Williams.
00:05:43
So you know you need to continue to free up money ahead of that March 17th deadline.
00:05:47
Little footnote.
00:05:48
Though you said 33 there's only 31 years old, just turned 31 at the start of March, so he's actually, uh, you know, it doesn't, by the way, right on that edge there.
00:05:57
Unless you're one of the premier players that really any position right? 31 32? You start to say, Is the downside starting to come? Will we start to see some erosion in the gameplay? But ultimately, we looked at it.
00:06:08
I think we all understood it.
00:06:09
And by the way, when you talk about his value, he was, you know, for what he was making on the team.
00:06:14
Most NFL minds around the league said, This is a guy that falls into the six, seven, maybe even $8 million a year range.
00:06:23
So for the Giants, if he wasn't going to restructure down to that number, like, I'll be very curious to see what he ends up getting on the market right, because essentially lightly is basically saying, I think I can get a little bit more.
00:06:35
And to me, if he liked playing for the Giants, I would have restructured and stayed because it's the worst off season to say No, no, I'll make it on my own when you are the player that you are And then we've seen other names around the offensive line in this league also get released, so it's gonna be a little more congested than we realized on the market.
00:06:53
Uh, this was something I thought long and hard about last night is because this cap is going down.
00:06:59
I thought, Man, the Giants are in trouble, right? They don't have that much money.
00:07:03
They need to sign Leonard Williams.
00:07:04
They need to.
00:07:05
They need to figure out what to do with Dalvin. Tomlinson.
00:07:07
They need an address or they need a wide receiver.
00:07:09
They need a whole host of things.
00:07:11
But then I realized there are teams like the Los Angeles Rams that are $48 million over the cat.
00:07:18
And, like, we were just very mediocre team last year.
00:07:22
And we're releasing guys that are okay.
00:07:25
Good.
00:07:26
Could potentially fill a hole on another team.
00:07:27
There are really good teams that have to let really good players go.
00:07:31
And that is to the benefit of the Giants, where I think, you know, we had to release Zeitler.
00:07:36
We're going to free up 10 million cap space with the swath of linemen that are being released to free up caps race around the league.
00:07:43
I think we could get a starting caliber guard for $4 million for $5 million and take $5 million and put it elsewhere.
00:07:51
You know, uh, in that wide receiver or in that edge rush that we desperately need.
00:07:56
Yeah, for sure.
00:07:57
And I think you're right.
00:07:58
You know, it is one of the things just from a legal perspective, right? You hear this in baseball, where they can give out the massive contracts? No, no cap, you know, So I don't have to worry about it.
00:08:07
These things can be as bloated as they as they so choose in a lot of ways, but I think the luxury luxury tax not to similarly, but it feels weird that contracts can become so ugly, right and so unattractive by the time you get two year X like, I just think there's something something a little bit flawed, and it's true about all sports.
00:08:28
Something's a little bit flawed when, like, these guys can't play out their contracts because inevitably, you're like 31 32 years old, 14 and get out of here.
00:08:36
What now? That's exactly what? Because of course, we structured it this way.
00:08:39
That's why we have dead cap money like you're like, What is dead Catholic? Why? Why can you have dead you can carry money that's going to affect you, but not directly.
00:08:47
It's into like, it's all these weird mechanisms to make it possible for teams to do things as opposed to be cleaning it up a little bit and making it so that everybody like being almost $50 million over the cap.
00:08:57
That's interesting to me.
00:08:59
Yeah, another thing is like, you know, the people are structuring contracts and and having to voidable years at the end to spread the dead cap hit over it.
00:09:08
And and it's like, Okay, how about we just like, rethink how we do contracts to not make it as complicated as we do? So everyone's playing mental gymnastics.
00:09:16
It's like, you know, this goes into the collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the Players Association.
00:09:21
Obviously, next time they go to the table, there has to be something that says, like, can we just, like, find a way to work on guaranteed contracts? And maybe it will bring the annual average down or do something because, like these guys, look at Kyle Van Noy of the Dolphins, who last year signed like a four year, $60 million deal, and you're like Wow, that's amazing.
00:09:42
And they just cut after one year.
00:09:44
And you're like how I don't even understand you signed a four year deal.
00:09:47
You move your family down there, you get everything set up, you play pretty good.
00:09:51
But the Dolphins worked at the cap and the different ways that they structured it.
00:09:55
So, like, just let him go after one year.
00:09:57
So what's that four year contract really look like that was the best part.
00:10:01
Like I didn't know because from afar, you just saw the sign down there and then you find on the back and they were like, Yeah, they pretty much structures.
00:10:06
That could be a one year deal.
00:10:07
They didn't like it like if they wanted to get out.
00:10:09
And you're like, Okay, so then just do a one year deal like now.
00:10:12
The interesting thing we're gonna move actually into a different type of contract conversation.
00:10:15
But the interesting thing is, like, I know that it benefits the the middle the lower end players, right? The guys that are fighting for roster spots, the contract structure is nice.
00:10:24
And that way, when you talk about guarantees and roster bonuses and that sort of thing.
00:10:27
I think sometimes for the upper echelon talent in the league, all these figures get really big and bloated.
00:10:32
But I would like to see it like the n b A.
00:10:35
Which is again, Is it more about superstars in some regards? But a lot of these big name players they sign to three year deal now, right? Like to LeBron, I'll give you a one and one like I'll give you this two year window and then we'll just reboot will reboot.
00:10:46
I'd almost rather see that, even if it meant more player movement.
00:10:49
I know teams want to control, but at least then, on paper, you'd say for the next 2 to 3 years, this is what the cap looks like.
00:10:56
This is where our money is, and we know that we're never gonna get insanely over or find ourselves holding a ton of money with nowhere to spend it.
00:11:03
I think it's interesting that you make that point because while there's always been different players in the NFL, especially quarterbacks that have said like Eli Manning, I don't want to go play in San Diego, I want to go to New York.
00:11:14
I want to go to a bigger market.
00:11:15
There's always been those little turns.
00:11:18
This does feel like the age of player empowerment across all sports and and the NBA has been Trailblazers in terms of those guys picking and choosing their destinations, being able to take control of where they want to be and how long they want to be there for, either by signing those deals or doing things like James Harden did, where he's like, I'm just not going to play anymore, and you may as well trade me.
00:11:37
I'm wondering if the quarterback we'll start to do that in in the NFL, where you see it with the Shawn Watson wanting out of Houston.
00:11:46
It's only a matter of time before he leaves, because ultimately, if he doesn't want to be there, it could get really ugly.
00:11:52
There could be a ton of other players being like, Well, if he's going to do this, I don't want to be here, either.
00:11:56
And so it could be a little bit more of a player empowerment happening in the NFL, especially if these guys do decide to, you know, forgo the long term security like they have traditionally done in football because of the injuries and start saying, I'll do a one in one deal that doesn't allow a franchise tag after it.
00:12:15
And I continue to become a free agent, almost similar to what Kirk Cousins does, who happens to be, may I say, the highest paid player in the NFL over the last four seasons at, like, $150 million.
00:12:25
So, like a couple guys have figured out, it does bring on a lot more risk because of the injury in the NFL.
00:12:31
But, man, you could get paid handsomely if you play your cards right.
00:12:35
Yeah, it's interesting to think about, you know, quarterback position.
00:12:37
And if you did the research, if you did it that way, well, quarterback play.
00:12:40
Okay, great, because you're in that position, right? Would wide receivers be able to do that as effectively? But my mind does go to a running back.
00:12:46
Who says, Yeah, I want 18 million, a one year deal and you'll get all the bang for your buck.
00:12:51
And if you've got you know, if we want to part ways we part ways, I can go find another 18 million, a one year deal to help you know, I think a running back say like a sack, Juan Barkley or one of these guys in the prime of their career.
00:13:00
You can see guys that go.
00:13:02
I'll play for four different teams over the next five years, and I'll probably you know, I win two Super Bowls and I'll really contribute.
00:13:07
I'll make high dollar amount and I'll only ever count one time against it.
00:13:10
I I don't know if it's feasible for the NFL.
00:13:12
I know they, at least like the perception of the team, has control of players.
00:13:16
Even though we've seen so much more movement than we had years ago, you know, let's put this way.
00:13:21
It's not going to happen.
00:13:22
The NFL has has its in its mind the way that it wants things done and they're the most league controlled, You know, in terms of those decisions, it's not like the NBA, where they're very much partners in that product.
00:13:35
Well, when you talk about contracts and contract structure, I feel like Dave Gettleman has some opinions on on how contracts work, how they should be structured, what he does and doesn't want to do in today's world.
00:13:49
Adam, can you kind of glean into what David Letterman is talking about.
00:13:53
Yeah, so, you know, this happened on Tuesday as well, A little bit after we had recorded, and he came out and did his presser.
00:13:58
We got, by the way, we're gonna touch into into another player here in a little bit.
00:14:02
Joe Judge had some more glowing remarks around a guy that we've discussed a lot.
00:14:07
But Dave Gettleman, they're talking about trying to make the room and the franchise tag for for Leonard Williams and what it was all going to look like.
00:14:14
And they said, Well, you know, when you look to restructure potentially some of these contracts and you know it is very bossy, Uh, you know the thing about contracts, you get a guy at three years 45 million.
00:14:23
You like 15, 15, 15.
00:14:25
That's the way you like it.
00:14:26
You know what? You want to mess with that, You know, it was like, Okay, I understand what you're saying.
00:14:32
Also, though, every team across the league restructures contracts to create cap room, and there was an interesting, interesting perspective, and I wish I want to credit the person who brought it up.
00:14:41
But Eli Manning.
00:14:43
People always used to say, Well, Eli Manning never restructured, but it was also right.
00:14:47
But did the Giants ever ask him to restructure like I don't know, if organizationally.
00:14:52
So it even extends a little bit beyond Dave Gettleman of it could just be the organizational thing.
00:14:56
They're not a huge restructure organization so much as they are.
00:15:00
We try to play out the value of the kind, like their traditional right.
00:15:03
They want to do things like in a terrible way.
00:15:07
They want to do it the right way, almost to a fault of Hey, we signed a contract and we stick to it and we want to play that out.
00:15:13
The weird part about that is you just recently probably tried to restructure Kevin Zeitler and couldn't get the job done.
00:15:20
So you know, which is it, right? Is it saving face because you couldn't get the restructure done? And that's what you say? Well, you know, the money was the money, and we're not looking to do it.
00:15:28
It just it's Dave Gettleman doing the classic.
00:15:31
I say a lot of things you gotta watch for my hands are because the magic is happening somewhere else.
00:15:36
It made me roll my eyes immediately.
00:15:39
And I'm like, What is he talking about? Like it makes no sense for for a whole host of reasons.
00:15:45
First is obviously, they would have liked Zeitler back at a lower number.
00:15:48
Of course, they would have tried to restructure him if they could.
00:15:51
Um, restructuring also does allow you to kick the can down the road, and he says he doesn't like to do that.
00:15:56
He wants to. 15, 15, 15.
00:15:58
Can we just remind you that Dave Gettleman early restructured Nate soldiers deal to be able to kick the can down the river? So he had more cap space earlier.
00:16:08
So he's already shown the ability to do this so that that's only because it was a bad.
00:16:13
It was a big contract and a bit of a mistake.
00:16:15
So that's only in the case where he's trying to fix something that he may be messed up, but okay, so who signed Nate solder to that contract? Yeah, I know it's Dave Chappelle.
00:16:23
So, like Dave Gettleman signs him to the contract, and he's like, No, I don't I don't like restructuring.
00:16:28
That's not good.
00:16:29
Restructures, uh, sold her to be able to put push, kick the can.
00:16:34
Obviously, Soldier opted out, his contract told.
00:16:37
So you have another 15 million sitting there this year? Um, it's interesting, and it's kind of ridiculous for him to say that, of course, in a year where the salary cap contracts and restricts, it goes down over $15 million this year, who could have seen a pandemic coming? Everyone pushes these contracts because every single year the salary cap has gone up.
00:17:00
It goes up considerably.
00:17:02
There's more room.
00:17:03
There's more flexibility.
00:17:04
Variables change.
00:17:05
Things happen in life.
00:17:07
You strike gold on 1/6 round pick.
00:17:09
You don't need this person anymore.
00:17:10
There's so many different things that you do by pushing those contracts further and further down the road.
00:17:15
I mean, the salary cap could have been $220 million this year if there were people in the stands, right? And if you think about that, Zettler would have stayed.
00:17:24
Not any of this would be issues.
00:17:25
We have 30 million in cap space.
00:17:27
We'd be looking to make all these splashes in the off season, so get them in to say this is ridiculous.
00:17:32
He early restructured soldier wants, he would have done it with Hitler.
00:17:35
Hitler didn't have a huge market, but here we say, And why not to your point? If you're David Cameron, why not just label it as that? You know, obviously it's a tricky set of cir***stances.
00:17:45
No one could have foreseen a pandemic.
00:17:47
The cap has come down unlike almost every other year leading up to this point.
00:17:51
So unfortunately, we're in a spot where we need to make difficult decisions, and that's why restructuring is a little bit harder.
00:17:59
You know, you'd like to, but maybe it's a little bit harder than other years.
00:18:02
You don't have as much time.
00:18:03
You don't have the flexibility necessarily right.
00:18:05
There's there's always so many ways.
00:18:07
Like for as much as I have said, you have to take a step back and ****yze Dave Gettleman or any GM you know, you got to take in the full scope of it and give time to to ****yze what they've accomplished.
00:18:16
The one thing you don't need time to ****yze.
00:18:18
The Dave Gettleman either doesn't care about press conferences or loves press conferences because he thinks that tap dancing around and having fun with the media is like his favorite pet project, because either way, this dude is, you know, or or just is oblivious and doesn't know how to handle them.
00:18:32
Right? Like something, something like I don't know what it is because I'm in the same boat as you.
00:18:37
Either he doesn't care or he's trying to be funny or coy or like whatever he thinks he's doing.
00:18:41
I mean, Dave, we know the deal.
00:18:43
We know the deal.
00:18:44
You always restructure, and also like these general managers don't know how long they're going to be around for.
00:18:50
Why would you put yourself in a really bad predicament today when you can make it a bad predicament two years from now? And it might not even be you that has to deal with that predicament, right? Like problems at all? Yeah.
00:19:01
You keep pushing it, pushing it, pushing it, And like, of course, you know, that's why the Rams are in the problem.
00:19:06
They are because they kept kicking the can.
00:19:08
They obviously traded golf that they're ruthless with this, But then all of a sudden pandemic hits.
00:19:12
There are 45 million over the cap and they have to make tough decisions.
00:19:15
But guess what? If they can find another way to kick this 45 million down the down the road till next year, they would do it, right? Well, and by the way, that that's that's again like, yeah, you risk it, right? The Rams have been a pretty good team the last handful of years.
00:19:30
So, yes, you're running the risk of ending up in this very bad spot.
00:19:32
Okay, And then at a certain point, you go click, click, click, strip, strip strip will reboot this thing when we need to, like, you know, you push the threshold as much as you can.
00:19:41
And as far as talking out of both sides, your mouth goes.
00:19:44
Dave Gettleman says we're not really in the restructuring business.
00:19:49
Meanwhile, they're trying to figure out a way to restructure Nate Soldiers contract so that they can bring him back and retain him.
00:19:58
This to me since we're coming off of the settler conversation, is very 1 to 1.
00:20:02
Um, and I don't think it's the most positive case in the world.
00:20:05
I think the Zeitler still believes that he has value.
00:20:07
I think people agree that he has value now what that number amount is in in, you know, this market, that's for that's to be seen.
00:20:15
What I think is happening here is a combination of I think, that gentleman still and maybe Joe Judge remember connection from New England as well.
00:20:23
He was there when Nate Solder was there.
00:20:26
I think that they still believe that soldier can play even at 33 years old.
00:20:31
And also, I think that they like him as a person.
00:20:37
And this goes into an element of NFL football conversation that most fans maybe don't want to hear.
00:20:43
John, there is a loyal guy.
00:20:45
Uh, Nate Soldier has been through a lot in his life and his child's life right like this.
00:20:52
It's just that's what it feels like to me.
00:20:54
It feels like they came.
00:20:55
They moved to, you know, they moved to the area to be a part of the Giants.
00:20:58
He opted out.
00:20:59
All of these things happen.
00:21:00
He's missed a lot of football.
00:21:02
This just feels like both sides saying, Hey, I don't know what it's going to be when I get on the field, but I really don't want to have to try to pick this up and move it.
00:21:10
I don't wanna have to try to find another team like I'd like to stay here and I'll be very curious about what these numbers come to for the Giants.
00:21:19
If they're going to keep soldier and have and be a part of this roster.
00:21:22
I have a different belief on this.
00:21:25
And this.
00:21:26
This could be this could potentially be victory lap number two for me, Adam, because I said there is a world a couple episodes ago where Nate Solder is our right tackle and your exact quote it was You are out of your mind, right? Well, no, to be clear, you said Nate Soldier would be a better starting right tackle at the start of this year than Matt Part.
00:21:50
That was the And I said you'd be out of your mind to say Soldier would be clearing away a better starting right tackle, something he hasn't done.
00:21:57
I did at the time I said something he's never done.
00:21:59
I don't think he hasn't done it since his rookie season in the NFL.
00:22:02
Yeah, over 10 years, about 10 years ago since he played right tackle.
00:22:06
Listen, I have reading the tea leaves.
00:22:10
I'm understanding where the Giants head is at in terms of offensive line.
00:22:14
The first thing is you can't be paying 12 14, 15 million for interior linemen.
00:22:22
You just You just can't right Like we drafted Shane Lemieux in the fifth round.
00:22:27
He was a little bit spotty, but they believe that they can make something happen with him.
00:22:32
They drafted Nick Gates late.
00:22:34
They moved him all around the line.
00:22:36
They signed him to a $3 million deal to be the center.
00:22:39
He's been fine.
00:22:40
You realize you can't have that money tied up in the in the center.
00:22:44
You just need, you know, those those positions are not as premier as we want them to be, like I get it.
00:22:50
Our offensive line hasn't been good, so we kind of spread the blame all the way across.
00:22:55
Offensive tackles are the most important positions on the field.
00:23:00
Outside of quarterback, they are, and to be able to get someone who is serviceable is not easy.
00:23:06
You can see teams constantly try and try and try to find offensive tackles, and when you find one, you give them whatever amount of money you want because it saves your quarterback, your franchise, everything else.
00:23:17
When you talk about Nate solder, we're talking about a couple different things.
00:23:21
One is Matt Peart.
00:23:24
Last year was getting traded in and out of the lineup for a swing tackle.
00:23:29
Cam Fleming.
00:23:30
Neither of them is an all Pro tackle, right, Adam? So, like, I'll yes, I'll allow you to get through this.
00:23:37
Let me let me get through this.
00:23:38
It's not like Matt Peart showed.
00:23:42
Amazing, like, otherworldly town.
00:23:44
We're like, we gotta let this guy go.
00:23:46
We have to do this.
00:23:47
He was playing okay.
00:23:50
Good.
00:23:51
But not great enough to beat out Cam Fleming consistently.
00:23:54
So they're splitting time.
00:23:56
Okay, I understand China fans were excited.
00:23:59
They saw some flashes.
00:24:00
Map Part is A is a larger offensive tackle.
00:24:03
Could potentially be the right to a right tackle or the right tackle of the future.
00:24:08
Let me also remind you that he was 1/4 round pick.
00:24:10
It wasn't like we invested a first round pick.
00:24:12
If Nate Solder comes back and is better and healthier and is playing above average at right tackle or average at right tackle, it's more than we've gotten from the right tackle position in the last couple of years.
00:24:26
So for me, then you think about one last piece of it.
00:24:29
And this is the most important piece is the June 1st cut of Nate Solder flips the amount of cap savings that the Giants have from six million to 10.5 million.
00:24:42
So by trying to restructure Nate Solder right now, you're actually keeping, you know, and and keeping him past June 1st.
00:24:48
You're not only going to save more money, you also see how the draft plays out.
00:24:53
And lastly, you see what other offensive tackles are out there on the market and if nothing else, now you have Nate solder as the swing tackle that Cam Fleming was was hoping to be, and you don't need to re sign him.
00:25:03
There are so many reasons why Nate Solder being on this roster makes after June 1st.
00:25:09
If you decide you've read the tea leaves, the draft went exactly how you wanted and the free agency was great.
00:25:14
And you want to let Nate go. Fine.
00:25:16
But for me, I think it's a great situation to have Nate solder in the building.
00:25:20
For all of those flexibility purposes, we'll see you finally got to at the back end of it, though, which is, I mean, great job you talk about, you know, day again and being able to tap dance.
00:25:28
You did it perfectly.
00:25:30
I'm gonna go ahead and talk about all these reasons why.
00:25:32
Nate Solder quality quality.
00:25:33
Also good. So good, so good, so good.
00:25:35
And then I'll just throw in.
00:25:36
The caveat.
00:25:37
If we cut on post June 1, it flips the script.
00:25:39
We save a lot of money like That's the only reason why that's not.
00:25:41
Maybe not.
00:25:42
The only reason that's a major reason why these conversations are happening is because that's still the ultimate date.
00:25:47
If they need to do something with anybody, including soldier ahead of the 17th, in order to make sure that they're good and covered with the franchise money for Leonard Williams, they'll do what's necessary.
00:25:56
But if they can manage to hold on to soldiers say, Hey, you want to come into camp? Let's see how you look.
00:26:00
And if ultimately we decide your value, whether as a backup swing tackle, a starting tackle, whatever it may be, if the value isn't commiserate with the money, we're going to pay you on the restructure, then we're still going to move on from you and hopefully reduce that number.
00:26:12
And I don't know what it will look like.
00:26:14
If they were to reduce restructure his contract, Would those numbers and the dead cap hit still look, The same percentage was right.
00:26:21
So that's the first piece of it.
00:26:23
The other piece of it to me is, you know, you're you're completely dismissing the fact that Matt Peart was a rookie tackle in the NFL so saying He's going in and out of the lineup, right? I mean, yes, he was going in and out of the lineup, but there was no intention on his draft when he was drafted.
00:26:38
It was considered to be a really great pick by the New York Giants and one where they said, Listen, this guy may need a little bit of time to develop himself, but ultimately he can build into a starting right tackle.
00:26:47
We'll take it for what it's worth, as we always say, with Pff, a nearly 70 Pff grade for Matt Peart last year.
00:26:56
So you know you want to go back and look at what can Fleming was doing it was something in the sub sixties, the only reason why they were sharing rotational minutes.
00:27:03
And you can even throw Andrew Thomas. And this as well.
00:27:05
The reason why these were these guys were rotating is because they were young and learning and can Fleming just represented Hey, we want to be able to give these young players some relief and you can make you can make the case.
00:27:14
You know, Andrew Thomas got stronger as the year went on.
00:27:17
You can make the case that map hurt and how he's looked at your house.
00:27:21
A a Pff grade comes out, can be protected by right.
00:27:25
We we mitigated.
00:27:26
We put him in some of the best situations for him to have success and maybe avoided some areas where we know his game is going to need to work on that.
00:27:33
That's the first piece of it, you know, for me from a soldier standpoint.
00:27:36
Again, go look at his grades.
00:27:38
I think that you're going to come into this realizing that these guys are on par hurt and soldier, they're on par and to your last your last portion of it.
00:27:48
I do think that it makes sense that you can say, Hey, soldier, you can still be on this roster if for some reason, purchase looks like Oh, my God, what happened? This guy, you know, he must sit around eating Chunky ****** all offseason.
00:28:00
He's not ready to go at all.
00:28:01
Okay, then you have a veteran guy you know is committed to football and wants to play well.
00:28:05
And you have them. There is a safety valve.
00:28:07
But if pert comes out and looks good, soldiers gone, you spend a little bit of money on the market to have a veteran swing tackle back it up.
00:28:14
Unless that number is right.
00:28:16
That's what this is about. Hey, Nate Solder.
00:28:18
You're gonna be our backup swing tackle and a veteran presence.
00:28:21
And by the way, I love it in the film room.
00:28:22
Same way you like having a veteran quarterback backing up Daniel Jones, right? A solid mind in the room.
00:28:27
I love the idea of Nate Solder being around Andrew, Thomas and Percy.
00:28:30
Everybody on this line and saying, Hey, these are the things that I know.
00:28:33
Here's what I've learned right in part the wisdom.
00:28:35
So there is a price point that I like that you can pay Nate Solder four or $5 million this year on a restructure and feel great about having him there.
00:28:44
But that's what it needs to look like because I again there just isn't a world.
00:28:48
I'll put it this way.
00:28:50
In a world where Nate Soldier is starting at right tackle, it just spells a far bigger issue for the Giants.
00:28:57
You know, in the short and long term, because it just means we're still wondering.
00:29:01
Can, you know, can Shane Lemieux developed? Maybe he can.
00:29:03
We got rid of slightly because of the pinch. We were in financially.
00:29:06
And now maybe Matt Parts not going to be that guy.
00:29:08
Okay, start pulling away these positives that we had from last year, everything we predicated ourselves on it being like Here's the positive to take away from this past season with the Giants, won a couple more games, but still didn't look great at times.
00:29:19
Yeah, but the offensive line is so close to being complete, you're saying we could be weeks into the offseason and saying we're actually only 2/5 of the way there with Gates and Thomas.
00:29:29
If we want to say and everything else is a coin toss.
00:29:31
And a year from now, we're gonna be completely screwed, and it's gonna heighten everything you need to do in the draft.
00:29:37
So the one caveat I will say about all this to your point.
00:29:41
All very valid points I want Matt.
00:29:44
I would love that part to be the starting right tackle.
00:29:47
I think he did show flashes that that that would make me happy if he is the right tackle of the future for for the New York Giants.
00:29:53
I'm thinking to myself, You just said Let's sign a backup swing tackle for four or $5 million of parts.
00:29:59
The guy Let's make sure we have someone there.
00:30:01
The cap savings right now is $6 million on eight soldiers.
00:30:05
So the question that you have is is Nate Solder worth $6 million as being either a starting right tackle or a swing tackle that could come in for Andrew Thomas Ormat per both just coming off their rookie seasons being that veteran presence, and we know that injuries happen all the time.
00:30:20
How nice would it be to have a 10, you know, 10 plus year veteran sitting there being able to fill in at any moment in time, and we're only saving $6 million to day on that.
00:30:30
And that's the discussion that the Giants are having with him is like, Look, we save more money releasing you in June, But we know it's gonna be a lot harder for you to even get a job if we do that in June.
00:30:40
So, like, let's mutually figure this out because, you know, we'd like to save money.
00:30:45
We can't spend that much and you'd like to have some some safety of being here.
00:30:50
And if you're not going to be here, then let's get you a chance to start somewhere else.
00:30:54
So there's a lot of little you know, This is not just all in the Giants to have to figure it out.
00:30:57
It's also for Nate to figure out what he wants to do.
00:31:00
Because anyone that gets cut after the draft right before camp, it's so much harder to latch onto a starting role at that point last two years that he played 65 grade year prior 75 almost 76.
00:31:12
So there's still talent.
00:31:14
There's still value there, but I think you you framed it right there at the end.
00:31:16
It's, Hey, we're fine with you being here, right? What's the difference of take about? We're not even different.
00:31:21
The Giants don't want to take on more debt cap.
00:31:23
So if we can restructure and keep you as the $5 million swing tackle back up with young players that aren't making big contracts on the offensive line yet, we'd be happy to do that.
00:31:32
And as long as the talent is there, as long as there's still something in the tank from Nate, then I'm happy with that.
00:31:37
Uh, for as much as I have belabored my feelings on him, I'd always rather keep the guy the same thing.
00:31:44
I think about Cam Fleming, by the way.
00:31:46
Like you know, in the worst case scenario, I'd be okay, bringing back Cam Fleming to be the backup swing tackle because he's been here and they know him and you have the familiarity right, and you assume that the coaching staff knows what they're getting in him.
00:31:57
So likewise for for Nate Solder.
00:31:59
I think that you can have him come back in.
00:32:01
It's just at the right price point and the question becomes unlike Zeitler, the soldier maybe have a little bit more perspective on where he is at this point of his career and what the market would be willing to provide for him now.
00:32:12
Adam, that's interesting that you say that because you'd always rather have the guy back than not, except when it comes for one of my favorite players on the Giants today, and that is Pro Bowler Evan Ingram.
00:32:27
And the reason why I bring him up is because there's some interesting reports and interesting whispers going on around the league right now.
00:32:34
And that is around Patriots wide receiver Nick Eel.
00:32:37
Harry So Nick Eel Harry has spent two years in New England, caught about 40 catches, has about four touchdowns, really, has not shined very well after being a first round pick in New England.
00:32:49
Uh, there are rumors and reports.
00:32:51
Teams are calling to see if he is available.
00:32:53
You know, injuries have really zapped him of a lot of of, you know, the flashes that he had at Arizona State.
00:33:00
Talk to me a little bit about Nikkila Harry, and whether or not you'd like to see him on the Giants what it could take in any interesting ways the Giants could go about getting him.
00:33:09
Yeah, listen, I like him from afar now again.
00:33:12
Not unlike a lot of prospects, right? These are players that you had higher expectations for and haven't necessarily met them.
00:33:20
I went back and took a look.
00:33:21
And this is a guy who, by the way, is on a four year, $10 million contract with the Patriots.
00:33:27
So very reasonable in terms of the cap number that you'd be bringing on if the Giants were trying to pursue.
00:33:32
I went back and took a look at his draft profile coming out of college.
00:33:37
There's there's good things to like.
00:33:38
And then maybe if you want to say some concerns, he doesn't really have speed or burst, so I'll go with the negatives first.
00:33:43
I like him, but the lack of speed or burst and necessarily separation off the line.
00:33:48
Those are a couple areas that we probably talked about with our wide receiving corps this past season, right, getting separation, creating some space.
00:33:54
That's the concern.
00:33:56
The good news is for him.
00:33:57
He's a decent, decent size 6263 He has good size and He's very crisp in his route, running so he doesn't.
00:34:05
He doesn't get to break down his route and then make his move, whether it's an inside, whether he's going to run a post route, he's very fluid in his route running.
00:34:12
That's a good sign.
00:34:13
He's actually surprisingly good after the catch.
00:34:15
There's no Did you go back last year and watch a little bit of his tape and the sample size? He was actually incredible at fighting through tackles, breaking some tackles.
00:34:22
So the run after catch ability is there, and then he's also very good at contested balls.
00:34:26
So we talk about getting into the red zone and having another big body target.
00:34:30
I think all those things do fit in nicely for the Giants.
00:34:34
The question becomes, What are you willing to give up for him? Right where the new where's New England? Value this guy? Do you look at him and say fourth round pick? Maybe, you know, a couple of years removed from the draft hasn't been necessarily a hit.
00:34:46
Is that too high even for the Giants? Or do we take a look at your Pro Bowler, Evan Ingram and say New England What have you been lacking? That you've You've built some your championship runs around a talented, versatile tight end at that position.
00:35:02
What is Evan Ingram, at least on paper, a talented, versatile tight end at that position? So all of a sudden you could say, this is a like for, like, swap.
00:35:12
We say, thanks so much.
00:35:13
The Giants move off of that $6 million get up, swapping it out and saving yourself three or $4 million on on that swap.
00:35:20
Could the Giants even warrant a little bit of a sweetener on the back end? In spite of it being the last year, the contract for Evan Ingram? I think there's a world where it sets up that you could swap this.
00:35:32
Take a flyer on this wide receiver prospect, get him in the room and then allow yourself to really focus on what you might want to do in the draft like a Kyle pits et cetera, to replace the Pro Bowler Evan Ingram.
00:35:43
Yeah, we talked about this, uh, with some listeners on Twitter last night.
00:35:48
It is a fascinating thought, um, for the Giants, because, you know, a lot of times people like we gotta go get that guy.
00:35:54
We got to trade him and you're like, Well, why would Why would New England do that? Right? And I thought that to myself like he's been injured.
00:36:01
He had Brady, and then he had Cam Newton, who's who's hurt for a while, like he hasn't been able to really show his greatness.
00:36:08
But since Gronkowski has left, they have had no playmakers at the tight end position.
00:36:13
It almost feels like they were mailing it in their signing.
00:36:15
Guys like Matt LaCosta, veteran minimums and trying to bring them in and trying to get any production you look at when Cam Newton was his best and it was with a guy like Greg Olsen who could catch balls could be a security blanket over the middle of the field, some of the shorter routes to be able to catch it and get into space.
00:36:33
The New England Patriots just resigned 20 minutes ago.
00:36:36
Cam Newton, on a one year deal.
00:36:38
He is back in New England, loves him that everyone was.
00:36:42
You know, you may not think that you look good.
00:36:43
He couldn't throw the ball whatever.
00:36:45
Apparently, like Belichick, loves what he gets from Cam Newton, right? And so this makes this makes a whole lot of sense from the New England side.
00:36:52
The more I think about this, it's like Evan Ingram was the first round Talent made the Pro Bowl last year.
00:36:57
$6 million a weapon that he can go out and get for Cam Newton that if he plays well, they can sign in to an extension.
00:37:03
They could franchise tag him.
00:37:04
They could have him multiple years to kill.
00:37:07
Harry has struggled in New England.
00:37:09
It's time for him to get a change of scenery.
00:37:11
He has a $1.
00:37:12
7 million contract for this year, for the Giants would save $4 million and be able to get a 6 ft four outside big body Target, saving $4 million.
00:37:24
Getting a trade, taking $6 million of Evan incomes contract off of it.
00:37:28
It would provide so much flexibility for the Giants.
00:37:31
Give them an area of need and it's also exactly what New England needs.
00:37:34
So for me, I'm interested to say, like, who would say no in this scenario? Yeah, and I and I think I'll put it this way to II from afar.
00:37:43
I like nickel Harry's game, and I'd be interested to see how you maybe could develop it right, just a change of scenery form.
00:37:48
But as much as anything, it would be that like the Giants value would be saying, We moved off of a contract number.
00:37:55
We freed up cap room and we got a young talent.
00:37:57
Even if they kill Harry didn't work out, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
00:38:01
Just being able to move off of England's contract and where you could spend that money somewhere else would be something to think about.
00:38:07
Um, the one last thing I will throw out in this spectrum, I've been starting to quietly, somewhat bullishly say the Giants might want to consider a player like Rashard Higgins in free agency.
00:38:17
He's 26 not nearly as young, but you go and look at his draft profile, how he came out some injuries early, you know, in his time in Cleveland.
00:38:25
But I think there is something there now.
00:38:27
He doesn't have the same build, etcetera, but the difference is I may like Higgins on paper, better than to kill Harry and what he's shown so far his NFL career, but but it doesn't cost nearly as much.
00:38:38
Right? Higgins cost something.
00:38:39
I have to go get him on the open market.
00:38:41
I have to compete with other teams.
00:38:42
So it's interesting to think about how the Giants make that value.
00:38:45
We're gonna get out of here.
00:38:46
We're gonna be back in on Monday, of course, talking all things New York football giants.
00:38:50
I will leave you with this one.
00:38:51
Very quick quote when we talk about what the Giants need to accomplish here about a player that the Giants are looking to retain.
00:38:58
Quote his value is great on the free agent market.
00:39:02
It might be greater with the Giants because of how he leads the team and how the players interact with him. He is important.
00:39:08
I don't know if they'll be able to keep him, but he is very important to this team.
00:39:13
Who am I talking about? Andy? It has to be Dalvin Tomlinson.
00:39:18
You are correct, sir.
00:39:19
And it still brings me back to this.
00:39:22
And and to be fair, Andy has the scenario that's playing out right now.
00:39:26
Zettler being gone, maybe soldier being retained and being a part of this unit.
00:39:30
That's and Andy read the tea leaves on this and thought it could be possible.
00:39:34
This one when we talked about what's your perfect scenario? I said, Bring back Leonard Williams resigned.
00:39:40
Dalvin Tomlinson.
00:39:41
I do come back to again, the type of organization the Giants are and what they value leadership on and off the field.
00:39:48
Dalvin Tomlinson, a captain of this team.
00:39:50
I still do wonder and maybe even to kill Harry.
00:39:52
Evan Ingram Trade is a part of creating more cap space to be able to bring him back and 27 years old.
00:39:59
You know who knows what it's gonna look like a couple of years from now.
00:40:02
But there is something about just liking Equality Player, a drafted player by the organization and wanting to see him back in the big blue uniform.
00:40:10
So we'll keep an eye on that.
00:40:11
There's there's been so much talked about here in the last handful of days from wide receivers and cornerbacks, and you're seeing players get cut that you never would have anticipated.
00:40:19
They're going to be plenty to break down.
00:40:21
In the meantime, head over to YouTube start to subscribe to the channel.
00:40:24
There were gonna be doing more of our episodes will be live up there as well.
00:40:28
And then, including clips on the back end and so more stuff coming from Mathias Kiwanuka and that great interview that we had as well follow us at one giant podcast on all the social media platforms and then download rate review and subscribe.
00:40:40
Give us a five star review.
00:40:42
Talk about how Andy looks with a light glistening off his glasses.
00:40:46
Yeah, the Big Five finger death punch that Andy just threw up on the screen there.
00:40:50
It really helps us.
00:40:51
We've seen a lot of great support around the podcast over this past season into the offseason.
00:40:56
We appreciate it.
00:40:57
We love it. We thank you for it. Continue to do it.
00:40:59
And as Andy Mackiewicz would want, need and demand that, you know, as always, let's go Big Blue.
00:41:08
Yeah! Mm, yeah.
00:41:16
Mm.
00:41:19
Mhm.
00:41:20
Mhm.
00:41:23
Mhm.
00:41:27
Mhm.
00:41:28
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:31
Mhm.

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Adam Armbrecht @OneGiantPodcast Follow
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