SportsCastr • Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury pinpoint one key area that doomed them vs. Seahawks
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Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury pinpoint one key area that doomed them vs. Seahawks
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00:00:00
Oh, SportsCastr news.
00:00:02
NFL side of things.
00:00:03
Where, as promised, from last night, Ray has joined us.
00:00:07
But someone has not shown up today.
00:00:09
We wish, Lawrence nothing but the best.
00:00:12
Typically, we find out later.
00:00:13
It could have been an alarm clock scenario.
00:00:15
In the meantime, though.
00:00:16
Good to have you in, Ray.
00:00:18
How're you doing on a Friday morning coming off a Thursday night football game that, unfortunately, you and I.
00:00:23
And if maybe this is why Lawrence isn't here.
00:00:24
We all have some lumps to take as the Seattle Seahawks beat the Cardinals there. 2021.
00:00:30
What an absolute just shocking game last night from so many different perspectives, man.
00:00:36
I mean, it's number one.
00:00:37
It wasn't the big, high scoring event that we all thought it was gonna be.
00:00:41
Seattle figured out how to run the football.
00:00:44
Arizona had zero chemistry on offense last night, and I'm gonna tell you, uh, I finished watching the game this morning.
00:00:54
I had to deal with some work stuff last night.
00:00:55
They didn't finish till very late.
00:00:57
I'm gonna tell you, it was one of the worst officiated games of the season as well, and I'll go deeper into that, but just absolute shocking.
00:01:03
I'm not shocked, Seattle one.
00:01:05
Even though I thought Arizona's gonna win, that wasn't the shocking matter, but just the whole game.
00:01:09
And how it all unraveled was very shocking to me.
00:01:11
And I'm kind of sitting here in a little bit of disbelief this morning.
00:01:14
Yeah, you know, it's funny because Lawrence had brought it up previously.
00:01:18
I think one of the Colts games that we had reviewed and I kind of dismissed it as.
00:01:21
And I think you can usually say this like the refereeing is what it is.
00:01:25
You know, there's these highs and lows and then some games just get more egregious than others.
00:01:29
And it could just come down Thio what feels like the more obvious ones they want to be big plays.
00:01:34
They could just be things that seems so obvious that when they miss them or they go the wrong way of the call, um, it makes you feel like you're not getting the most legitimate level of competition.
00:01:43
Uh, you mentioned Seattle and finding a running game.
00:01:47
I'm a little bit shocked that the return of Carlos Hyde still behind the battle offensive line.
00:01:54
It was surprising to me to see that he that he was able to be as effective as he was, and then he meant that much to them because we know Carson's supposedly really the guy on.
00:02:02
We know that Seattle is rotated through players ever since Marshawn Lynch's time, really, in terms of what they're backfields made off.
00:02:07
But, yeah, I was surprised that they found that rhythm as much as they did their And if I was going to give us an out as we get into this year, um, the fact that Kyler Murray seemed to very early in this game be dealing with a shoulder issue.
00:02:20
There's a handful of throws throughout this, including at the end of the first half there when when these teams were exchanging punts within two minutes.
00:02:26
Yet four possessions over the last 2.
00:02:28
5 minutes of the first half.
00:02:29
Because he can't just get this little flick pass to get it out to DeAndre toe Hopkins and let him really go on a big, big run there.
00:02:35
But no, uh, are you Did your mind change here about the Seattle Seahawks and what their outlook is down the stretch of the season because we were really talking about both these teams about this being a linchpin game for them and how we feel about them down the stretch and going into the playoffs potentially.
00:02:50
I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, Adam.
00:02:52
My mindset changed against about Arizona Mawr than it changed about Seattle because you mentioned this last night and it was a really great point that I think you, Lawrence and I were both missing was we have seen a lot of Jacqueline hide out of Arizona this season.
00:03:08
We've seen really good Arizona teams, and we've seen not so really good Arizona teams.
00:03:12
But that's more come around the offensive side of the game last night.
00:03:15
Yes, they had some offensive issues.
00:03:17
They had some defensive issues, too.
00:03:19
I do not believe that Seattle actually found their run game.
00:03:23
I don't believe that This we're going to see a repeat of what do they have 162 yards rushing last night.
00:03:28
This, I think, was more in Arizona because yes, look.
00:03:30
Carlos Hyde, 14 carries 79 yards, averaged 5.
00:03:33
6 yards per carry.
00:03:35
Both Scarborough averaged five point Wilson average 4.
00:03:39
2 like everybody was running the football at ease.
00:03:44
And that will last night.
00:03:46
And the offense wasn't recovering on the other side of the ball to keep them off the field.
00:03:51
And what I got to say about Arizona's offense.
00:03:53
And we saw this against Detroit as well.
00:03:56
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot with penalties on every play, even when Seattle's defense was taking stupid penalties and letting you pick up first downs because of it.
00:04:09
Actually, both defense is we're giving up some bad penalties last night, giving up first downs on penalties.
00:04:14
Arizona just continuously kept shooting themselves in the foot.
00:04:16
And I wasn't impressed with their defense And what I saw last night out of Arizona, now granted there, playing Seattle.
00:04:22
But it reminded me of the team that lost to Detroit.
00:04:25
Yeah, and again, um, I would not fear playing Arizona if I'm gonna play them in the NFC championship game this year.
00:04:35
Well, and so that that's the thing that I think, same kind of line, right? I said, I don't know if it's really move the needle for me on Seattle.
00:04:41
Obviously, it looks like that, and they have a week schedule going down the stretch.
00:04:43
They make the playoffs.
00:04:44
I don't They're not going to terrify me.
00:04:47
And then maybe the other thing that I realized was also I don't know if Arizona with, You know, I thought they had the potential to be a scary team.
00:04:53
I don't know if they do now.
00:04:55
You talk about the offensive line and we highlighted.
00:04:57
They've been playing better, consistent over the year, and then you get Justin Pugh with multiple false start penalties.
00:05:02
You get Humphries with false start penalties, and they even said it on the broadcast last night.
00:05:05
Remember, they're not hearing what we're hearing when we watched the game.
00:05:09
In terms of that crowd, noises like this is dead silence.
00:05:13
This is being able to execute your place and the fact that over 100 yards and penalties they mentioned something in there and obviously the plenty to go through here.
00:05:20
But they mentioned something about the Cliff Kingsbury attitude around the team.
00:05:23
Right? Young team, You identify with them, you're young coach.
00:05:25
They have cell phone breaks and practices to check in on their social media, and and this is true about any coaching personality because you're seeing this.
00:05:33
My team is the Giants, right? Everyone is on board with the way Joe judges handling things right now, because there's a lot of positivity around the team.
00:05:39
It's on Leah's good as it as it extends when the quality of the play is still there.
00:05:43
But as soon as you have a night like that last night, all of a sudden you start to say, What about the attention to detail? What about the little things that matter in a game that is as poor as it kind of was for Arizona in all phases? In some ways, you still lost by set? Yeah, I mean you.
00:05:59
And you'd say, Well, if you just cleaned it up, you could do it Now the question because yeah, but can you clean it up? Are you a team that has the track record under under Kingsbury so far to say you can you can clean up these mistakes and you can get better and the other sub piece here is to they mentioned it.
00:06:16
He ends up having a decent game.
00:06:17
I guess you could say superstar wide receivers, right? And I love Hopkins, but the effect of we mentioned about Baker Mayfield.
00:06:25
We had a discussion with LBJ and the impact we went all the way back to even Eli Manning and the Giants days with LBJ.
00:06:31
Is there start? Do you have to worry about the concern of how does Kyler Murray approach the games, and how does he look at this? Great elevate Just had a hell Mary Touchdown BTO win the game final seconds.
00:06:41
By the way, one Hail Mary Pass.
00:06:43
Not being caught away from being a 500 team right now.
00:06:46
Do you have to start to worry about the mentality of that offense and how reliant they may get on that? Because running game has been complimentary, obviously, and Murray has his legs at some point, a good deep.
00:06:57
Seattle's not a good defense, and they were able to box you in a little bit last night when you faced some of the better defense is in the league.
00:07:04
It could get very ugly quickly on that side of the ball.
00:07:07
Yeah, it really could.
00:07:09
And we're starting to see that the Shawn Watson Effect and Kyler Murray because the Sean watching the game ran through DeAndre Hopkins and we saw the game plan fall apart at times because of it.
00:07:19
Now I know Houston hasn't had a good season.
00:07:21
I put a lot of that on Bill O Brien.
00:07:23
They looked like a much more improved team since he's left and Romeo has taken over and he's got Will Fuller and Randall Cobb and Kenny Stills and Brandon cooks to throw the football, too.
00:07:33
He can actually spread it around the field.
00:07:35
But when we focusing on Arizona, Yeah, he was that.
00:07:38
You could tell that game plan went to DeAndre Hopkins and he got what, five catches for 51 yards.
00:07:43
I'm also gonna talk about Arizona.
00:07:45
The other time when you want to talk about bad defense is, you know, normally in these type of games, I mean, last night I said, It's gonna come down to who makes a mistake and who wins the turnover battle? Well, you know what? Seattle made a lot of mistakes in Seattle, got slaughtered in the turnover battle to to nothing and still won the football game because Arizona could not do anything with the turnovers.
00:08:04
And that's what I think disappoints me the most.
00:08:06
And when you talk about this you know the young team, young coach, cellphone breaks.
00:08:11
I don't like to do this, but I do want to think about Bill Belichick and them and the players asking him, Can we have cell phone breaks or Joe Judge? Who's off the Belichick tree? Can we have cell phone breaks? I'll even say I want to see Aaron Rodgers go to Matt LaFleur and say, Can we have cell phone breaks? You're going to get the look like, Are you kidding me? Or or Sean Payton? I can only imagine what? Forget that.
00:08:32
Imagine going to Jon Gruden and saying, Can we have some cell phone breaks? Go to Sean Payton.
00:08:37
I mean, there's a lot.
00:08:38
There's a lot of scenario.
00:08:39
I mean, not even guys that are considered to be disciplinarians, where you say Go to that guy and say like, you go to Pete Carroll, who is probably the and Mike Tomlin are probably the two biggest players coaches in the NFL, and they look like there's football time on their cell phone time.
00:08:53
You don't have to have your cell phone on when we're playing football, and I think that's the thing.
00:08:57
Is that preparation? No.
00:08:58
you know, Is he trying a new approach to do? They have cell phone breaks next year.
00:09:02
Well, maybe turns around and goes, Hey, you know, this didn't work.
00:09:05
We can't do it.
00:09:06
But I'm not gonna I'm honestly, I'm not gonna put this game on the coaching staff, and I'm not gonna put this game on Kyler.
00:09:12
Murray, I'm gonna be honest with you.
00:09:13
This was a game that you could have ran your regular offense.
00:09:16
It was so tight the whole time.
00:09:17
Yeah, you're playing from behind.
00:09:19
But you could've just ran your regular offense.
00:09:21
Kenyan Drake is not worth the ink that he used to sign his contract.
00:09:25
Unfortunately, he ran the ball what 12 times last night for 11 2011 for 29 averaging 2.
00:09:33
6 like that's not effect.
00:09:36
That's not an effective way to run the football chase.
00:09:39
Edmunds runs it twice and gets 13 yards out of it, you know, like, are you surprised that the pause on that Are you surprised? Because they this was talked about a handful of weeks ago about transitioning from Drake being the primary toe Edmonds and it looked like it was trending that way.
00:09:52
and they very much back to offer that, and you would all surprised they haven't at least sample that size a little bit bigger just to find out. Maybe they understand.
00:10:00
Hey, more carries.
00:10:01
It's gonna look relatively the same.
00:10:02
But you have to at some point try something different because again, Sub three or even, you know you to be above four yards per carry to be a complimentary run game, and you've just seen too many misses her Drake on a week to week basis.
00:10:15
I wonder if this is a Kyler Murray thing rather than, ah, hesitant of wanting to move on from Drake, I wonder if this is where Murray sits comfortable inside of the offense.
00:10:24
He's still, you know, I think what we got we have to remember that gets lost a little bit.
00:10:30
Is this is Onley Kyler Murray.
00:10:32
Second year in the NFL.
00:10:34
He's, you know, he's barely off his rookie season.
00:10:36
He did complete four passes to Kenyan Drake last night.
00:10:39
Now he did the same thing with Edmunds, but I just wonder if this is more of a let's keep things as comfortable and as consistent as possible for him.
00:10:47
But At some point in time, you're gonna have to look at your quarterback and say, Dude, we have a chance to win the division.
00:10:53
We have a chance to make a playoff run.
00:10:55
We have a chance to go to a Super Bowl with the team that we have, We need to try something different.
00:11:00
Is this also we committed to Kenyan Drake? We gave him the money.
00:11:04
We, you know, he came through for us last year.
00:11:07
Or is this Cliff just hoping, man, Can you just show us a flash of last season? You know, if this guy gets it together and starts putting up 70 80 90 yard games again, this offense is unstoppable.
00:11:21
And by the way, like you lose this game, you're six and four.
00:11:24
You win the week prior, so you avoid maybe being 500.
00:11:26
As long as you're winning games, you can always say, Well, it's developing, It's progressing, We see the progress.
00:11:32
The offensive line is getting better.
00:11:33
So we see bigger things coming down the road and then as you lose a couple of games and e even said it.
00:11:38
You know San Francisco has been an absolute disaster because of all the injuries they've dealt with and therefore, and six, you know, take away the Hail Mary and your one game better than the 40 Niners this year.
00:11:49
If you're the Cardinals and you mentioned Colin Murray second year, I think there's a ton of validity to that as well, right? And we've seen this about so many young quarterbacks judging them, we got you know, we'll get the small sample size rookie season automatically say that they're gonna be incredible.
00:12:02
We're gonna be talking about M v P opportunities or with Lamar Jackson.
00:12:05
What a disaster.
00:12:06
They made a terrible choice.
00:12:07
Then your number two flip the script looks like this guy's worthy of M V. P is now.
00:12:11
Midway through the season, they're saying Lamar Jackson, it's a disaster.
00:12:15
He can't do it, you know? So the pendulum swinging in terms of how we react to these things is probably far too aggressive on a week to week or game to game basis.
00:12:24
And still, yeah, there's I sent this to this morning on the on.
00:12:29
The Giants won about the NFC West.
00:12:32
It's ultra competitive, and there's a lot of winds there, and also I don't know if any one of those teams is someone that I'd hang my hat on, right? The Rams have not been the Rams over the course of this year, either.
00:12:45
It's funny you say that because the Rams is the only team I believe in the probably one of the highest confidence.
00:12:50
And in spite of it, right.
00:12:51
In spite of it, I feel like they're still in opportunity there.
00:12:54
And that has a lot to do with again balance of the team overall on both sides of the football.
00:12:58
Yeah, and I think that's, you know, I'm gonna And look, since you to be brought up the Giants, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a comparison here.
00:13:05
Let's compare Kyler Murray to Daniel Jones this season.
00:13:08
Uh, I would say that the directory from Week one to Week six Daniel Jones was doing this thing.
00:13:14
Giants, fans, minds and Kyler. Murray was here.
00:13:17
I'm gonna argue it's not a steep Kyler.
00:13:19
Murray's maybe playing out lovely.
00:13:21
No, but Daniel Jones is slowly starting to do the rises.
00:13:25
A second year quarterback, we're starting to see a little bit of rhythm.
00:13:29
We're starting to see a little bit of sense.
00:13:30
Yeah, wiped out over a line on a for short touchdown.
00:13:33
You know that's gonna live within the rest of spirit.
00:13:35
It's gonna happen, But it happens with We can see this happen on, and I don't like going back to this theme that I'm going to, because it's kind of relevant right now.
00:13:42
Let's look at the New England Patriots, who two weeks ago I came out and said their season's over, they lost to the Buffalo or they got blown out by San Francisco.
00:13:50
Then they lost the Bills, the season's over.
00:13:52
All of a sudden, they face the New York Jets, which seems to fix everybody's problems.
00:13:56
Then they have that big win in Baltimore.
00:13:57
But one thing we've seen since the Buffalo game is an offense that's starting to trend up.
00:14:02
We're starting, You know.
00:14:03
Jacoby Meyers is now the third rated wide receiver on PF and Pff.
00:14:07
Damian Harris is a number two.
00:14:08
Running back Cam Newton, unbelievably, is rated 13 amongst quarterbacks.
00:14:12
You know, with I think it's seven other teams who have winning records, their quarterbacks or below them, and you're starting to see that trend.
00:14:19
You're seeing the same thing with the Giants whereas with the West, when you're looking at the Russell Wilson's and the Kyler Murray's, you're starting to see a downward trend.
00:14:27
Even after last night's game, nothing changed for me for Seattle last night.
00:14:30
You played in Arizona team that allowed you to do what you wanted to do.
00:14:34
I do not expect Seattle to come out and have a balanced offense like they did against any sort of decent defense.
00:14:40
I do wanna throw it an interesting number, though, because I saw this on Twitter this morning.
00:14:44
I don't have the numbers story, but an interesting fact.
00:14:46
I saw that this on Twitter this morning.
00:14:48
Kyler Murray is almost identical in numbers to where Lamar Jackson was at this point of the season last year, and he was voted unanimous.
00:14:56
M v p of the league.
00:14:58
Is it? It's funny, though, how I don't think Kyler Murray is getting put on the same pedestal is Lamar Jackson was last year.
00:15:04
Ah, part of that is Baltimore is one of those MAWR historical recent historical teams, Um, but they also had a really saw the defense that could bail them out of games.
00:15:15
And when you were 15 and one, you're gonna be in the spotlight.
00:15:19
More where with Arizona.
00:15:20
Even the numbers were similar.
00:15:22
I I think that people do see like you.
00:15:24
You should have lost the buffalo like let's not let's not lose sight of that.
00:15:28
You should have lost the buffalo.
00:15:30
You through a Hail Mary and really Buffalo let you in that game.
00:15:33
Otherwise you probably should have lost by 2 to 3 scores.
00:15:36
And then I'm sorry you looked awful against Seattle last night on, and I don't I want to take it all the way from Seattle either.
00:15:44
That's my big thing out of my thing.
00:15:45
I don't wanna be critical of a team who? Just one.
00:15:47
Yeah.
00:15:48
And by the way, I think as we, uh as well welcome Lawrenson s so he could take his lumps around the decision making.
00:15:53
We all had last night calling this game, but I think you're right and that you know the funny.
00:15:57
The funny thing about comparing what Lamar Jackson was and how the league looked at him versus Kyle Murray.
00:16:02
This year, oddly enough, doesn't even have to do with them.
00:16:05
It has to do with the defense.
00:16:07
The defense is so much stronger in Baltimore, so the record looks that much better.
00:16:11
So then some of the week to week errors and the stakes for Lamar Jackson.
00:16:14
I think it's swept under the rug because you're continuing to win.
00:16:16
And as we all know, that quarterbacks lead the team.
00:16:18
Doesn't matter if it's happening on defense.
00:16:19
So if Arizona was a give Arizona Baltimore's defense, then you're elevating Kyler Murray, Justus High.
00:16:26
And I think you're looking at that same way because the bird's eye view is one loss won loss record.
00:16:32
Of course, he has to be leading this team.
00:16:33
There has to be doing all the right things more often than not to have success for the team overall, Um, as we get into it, Lawrence and welcome you.
00:16:40
And, of course, this morning, one of the things that I also looked at two you mentioned about Ray.
00:16:45
Is Seattle going to be able to have this kind of consistent offensive output? Remember, we talked about number of past attempts at Russell Wilson had you through just 28 last night.
00:16:52
Two touchdowns, no interceptions under under 200 yards passing.
00:16:56
Yeah, that looks like the recipe for success.
00:17:00
for them and something that they can't do with consistency.
00:17:04
Lawrence, I don't wanna put you under the fire here, but how do you look at Russell Wilson? The performance from last night and the sustainability is a team for Seattle.
00:17:12
Approach games like that week in, week out.
00:17:15
Well, before I get started, I just want to apologize for being so late.
00:17:18
I actually my fault.
00:17:20
I honestly I'm sitting here looking at the clock, thinking it's until freaking tent.
00:17:26
I've legitimately thought I was an hour, you know? It was an hour earlier.
00:17:32
And then when I get on my computer and I look and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I am way late and I jump on and you're watching me, right? Chop it up there, Really Get into it about this game thinking, Where am I? Yeah, I thought the stream was done by the time because I've seen the times like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna have to apologize like crazy.
00:17:50
Well, look, lucky for you, Adam and I got entrenched in some, like, deep conversation, and all of a sudden realized it was 10. 30.
00:17:57
So Okay, so my prediction was a little off and there's a reason for that.
00:18:04
Just like everybody's prediction was a little off.
00:18:06
But I didn't realize Carlos Hyde was back.
00:18:10
Carlos Hyde was a huge piece.
00:18:13
In my opinion.
00:18:14
I think he's bigger than Carson, uh, in this run game, because he brings ah, physicality to the run game that they just have not had, uh, for Seattle.
00:18:23
And with that, it doesn't It's not all on.
00:18:26
Russell Wilson shoulders if Carlos Hyde is able to run that football because he can run that football very well.
00:18:32
And if they're able to do that, then especially Cardinals well, let me ask you that, kid, Can Carlos hi do that for Seattle consistently against better defensive play? Because one of the things Ray and I were talking about earlier here was, and race, that is like the Cardinals defense, though they're not.
00:18:50
They're not one of the better defense in the league, and it does.
00:18:51
It doesn't take away the performance from Carlos Hyde, by the way, without him, they probably lose that game, although they spread it around nicely in that backfield with some of the other players as well.
00:19:00
But do you think that they can really lean on that week to week behind that offensive line to help balance out what they expect from Russell Wilson.
00:19:06
From what I've seen from Carlos Hyde throughout his career with the Browns, with the Texans on bandwidth Seattle earlier in the season.
00:19:16
Yes, I think Carlos Hyde is that good of a running back.
00:19:19
The running backs that they've had over the past over the course of the year without him just hasn't been able to do anything even with this off.
00:19:27
But now is he gonna average six yard to carry? Probably not, but I think that you could consistently expect around four yards for Carlos Hyde.
00:19:37
Game in game out, even against good defense, is.
00:19:40
And I think that's a huge, huge, huge addition to this team, where they could actually run the football and not have to worry about third and longs on a consistent basis that Russell Wilson has to sit there and run for.
00:19:54
But, man, I'll tell you what.
00:19:57
The thing that surprised me was Seattle's defense.
00:20:02
When the world were they able to stop them run right.
00:20:06
That's what we just walked through.
00:20:07
That idea of expectations for Drake and is it him.
00:20:12
Is it him? Was it the defense? You know who gets credit? Who gets credit for that kind of game, where a lot of performances are hard to determine.
00:20:19
Who is it? The player or is it the opposition? Why did you let him on? He just came in here and just dismissed everything we just said for the last 20.
00:20:29
I don't know what the percentage chances are that you could bring someone in with a fresh perspective that wasn't listening and note taking and turning this middle what we were doing and four sentences basically like, Yeah, I think everything right and Adam were chronicling here is on the exact wrong end of the spectrum work.
00:20:45
So without boring the audience.
00:20:47
So I don't want to repeat everything we said.
00:20:49
Basically, I see this is mawr of a Kenyan Drake issue rather than a Seattle defense that could suddenly stop running the or can finally stop the run.
00:20:59
Let's not pretend that Kenyan Drake has been a good running back this season, and suddenly, you know, he ran into big, bad Seattle.
00:21:05
When I think about Carlos Hyde, I look at it the other way.
00:21:08
I'm looking at five for 22 against Seattle or against the Patriots.
00:21:13
I'm looking at four for 12 against Dallas.
00:21:17
You what? I mean, like, it's It's It's Yes, he's not gonna average six.
00:21:21
If you can average around the four, that's gonna help.
00:21:23
But he's not gonna have the type of impact that he had this game.
00:21:27
What happens, though? If Seattle falls behind and you have to start throwing the football again right, then you gotta move away from the run game, and that's any team.
00:21:34
I'm not stupid, you know.
00:21:35
I mean, I know that's any team I know. That's the way it goes.
00:21:38
I don't expect this team to balance.
00:21:41
That's where I was getting at.
00:21:42
I still expect his team because he's been there.
00:21:44
He was there, Lawrence Weeks, 1234 when they were just throwing the football when they were throwing it 1000 times.
00:21:52
They had a full complement of running backs at that point, and they were still throwing the football.
00:21:56
I think last night Arizona had no answer.
00:22:00
Arizona had no answer to stop them, so he they just kept running the football on him.
00:22:06
Whereas when you start playing those better defense is I want him to run the football like that against Aaron.
00:22:11
Donald in, in, in in L.
00:22:13
A.
00:22:14
You know what I mean? Here's something a little counterpoint to that.
00:22:17
Yeah, they were throwing it.
00:22:18
But the the the effect of the run was still there that that that threat of the run was still there.
00:22:24
And and the reason why that was you look coincides with their winds when they're when they had those running backs when they had Carlos Hyde on the field and and and Carson or, you know, ah, decent threat of a run game.
00:22:38
They were ableto win because defense's couldn't just focus in on stopping the past.
00:22:43
Now, I can't remember the exact quote, But after the Seattle game, the Patriots game, I mean, they asked Bill Belichick.
00:22:51
They said, You know, this is the record amount of rush yards your team has given up.
00:22:55
And what was your You know, you know, what does your team have to do? Thio better stop the run and Bill Belichick came out.
00:23:02
I'm paraphrasing, basically said we let them run the football.
00:23:05
We weren't afraid of their run game e.
00:23:08
I mean we're worried about their past.
00:23:10
We knew that we are whole game plan.
00:23:12
We knew they were gonna put up well over 100 yards.
00:23:14
We knew it wasn't gonna hurt us.
00:23:15
You know what I mean? So people, so people aren't fearing their run game, you know, until they do.
00:23:23
But here's the thing.
00:23:24
If they're not afraid of it, it's kind of like the flip of what happened last night, the way Seattle played, because I actually give this through the Seattle defense over Kenyan Drake.
00:23:36
And there's a reason for that because they sold out to get pressure behind the line of scrimmage.
00:23:41
They sold out.
00:23:42
They had a ton of people behind the line of scrimmage, not on Lee to stop the run.
00:23:47
But if you watch, Seattle was sending a ton of different people on a consistent basis, not only to get to the run but to get pressure on on on Kyler Murray and made Murray very uncomfortable.
00:24:00
Because Kyler Murray did not look good at all last night, especially with pressure in the space.
00:24:05
He was not able to be accurate.
00:24:07
He had no time to let Ah, lot of times he didn't have timeto toe, let his guys run his routes.
00:24:13
He was off on his throws.
00:24:15
It was just a bad situation.
00:24:18
And it is where Seattle's defense was looking better.
00:24:23
But they were selling out to do that and the Cardinals.
00:24:29
Because of that, Kyler Murray was looking really bad and like and I agree and what you're saying.
00:24:36
I also think we're reacting toe one game.
00:24:38
Seattle's defense didn't learn how to play defense over over a week.
00:24:42
You would.
00:24:43
Eso there has to be a combination of Yes, maybe Seattle Defense played better.
00:24:47
It's also the second time they played Arizona a little bit more of a book.
00:24:50
But I think there has to be contributions from the Arizona side to allow Seattle's defense has suddenly become a defense.
00:24:58
No thing for me.
00:25:00
No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
00:25:01
But just the fact that one of the things I looked at was one, uh, plus one in the turnover battle.
00:25:07
Now for Seattle on the season zero.
00:25:10
Even keel for Arizona.
00:25:11
That's indicative of teams that rise and fall week to week.
00:25:15
So one game looks better than it does in the other.
00:25:17
It just speaks back to the point that Ray and I kind of started on with this being like, I don't love either of them, but I don't know if either of these teams on any side of the ball.
00:25:24
Realistically, I you know, I don't They don't scare me overly on, especially when you think about long term in the playoffs, in the matchups you're gonna face, I don't think the team they're gonna have to take them on or going to feel them particularly have some extra thoughts about the Arizona secondary.
00:25:36
But please go ahead lines.
00:25:37
No, Ray is dead on when it comes to this game and and Seattle, as you know, the season goes on.
00:25:45
You know, this was a game scheme scheme for how Seattle played them the first time, and they just went out there that this is our game plan for this because this is the best way we know to defeat Arizona at this time.
00:25:59
You're right.
00:26:00
They can't use the same scheme next week or the rest of the season against different teams because it just won't work.
00:26:07
You can't sell out like that on a consistent basis against good teams.
00:26:11
They're going to kill you through the air, especially uh, good veteran quarterbacks that know how to get rid of that football and find where the weaknesses is when you're seeing zero blitz or something of that nature.
00:26:25
You don't wanna do that against Tom Brady.
00:26:27
He'll chew you up all day, every day.
00:26:29
No.
00:26:30
And I think I think we also, though I think one of the big key factors and Adam you mentioned at the beginning kind of briefly.
00:26:34
But we never got into a deeper conversation of it.
00:26:36
115 yards in penalties yesterday for Arizona.
00:26:39
You can't give up.
00:26:40
You gave up on entire drive and then some and you gave up more than a field in penalties.
00:26:49
And I do.
00:26:50
Guys, I don't look, Lawrence notice.
00:26:53
I don't talk about referees.
00:26:54
I always say that if you blame a referee for a loss, I would say no, no, you put yourself in a position that one call affected.
00:27:01
You be up by three scores.
00:27:02
It doesn't matter, but I want to just talk about it.
00:27:05
Not now, but at the end about that refereeing performance in general last night on both sides because I don't see anybody lost because of it.
00:27:11
That was just such a bad officiated game.
00:27:14
But you can't give up 115 yards in penalties in Seattle.
00:27:18
I mean, on the other side threw up 79.
00:27:20
You know what's laundry? Like? I'm telling you, those yellow flags were green by the end because they were so stained from from from being thrown Well, it is.
00:27:29
You know, when you talk about like, remember in weeks past, right Thursday night games, the teams on paper, we're like Jesus, and they've been actually been more interesting and more exciting games On paper, This should be one of the cleanest, most exciting fun games to watch.
00:27:42
And this was almost a little bit of ah, boys.
00:27:45
Either one of you want this thing like it stretches.
00:27:47
It just didn't feel like either one.
00:27:49
I was gonna take over and dominate.
00:27:50
I wanted we could go into that voluntarily.
00:27:52
The one thing that I just came across my mind was a couple things we talked about.
00:27:55
Metcalfe and him, you know, wants to set that standard of getting a touchdown record, etcetera, Uh, two things.
00:28:01
One in the secondary of the Arizona Cardinals.
00:28:03
Only a couple of years ago, there was that big debate.
00:28:06
What's gonna happen with Peterson? Is he staying in Arizona, or is he gonna get traded? They're gonna cash check somewhere else.
00:28:13
Fall talk about falling off a cliff, right? I mean, he is about as brutal in that secondary is you could possibly imagine.
00:28:18
So it opens up a lot of opportunities for Seattle this last game and then the secondary pieces.
00:28:24
Tyler Lockett, You wanna talk about A guy deserves more credit.
00:28:27
That doesn't get that, You know, the credit that he deserves.
00:28:29
And you just assume that it's because you're there in Seattle was Russell Wilson.
00:28:32
And you're the benefactor.
00:28:34
He's one of the more consistent receivers in the NFL.
00:28:37
Did it again.
00:28:38
Last beautiful touch pass, by the way from Russell Wilson and that right corner of the end zone.
00:28:41
But he does everything right.
00:28:42
And when you look at those stat lines and say Yes, Metcalfe had a touchdown three catches.
00:28:46
But the chain mover, the consistent player for them is lock it.
00:28:49
And that was really the silver lining of how you end up getting stealing a win away.
00:28:53
However, you wanna look at it, but getting that win is about what he was doing for Russell Wilson with consistency in that game.
00:28:58
Now I am going to defend DK just a little bit because I tweeted this out last night or early this morning.
00:29:04
Actually, when I was finishing the game and I said, Thank God for penalties because DK would have made me look stupid.
00:29:10
He Yeah, he lost two plays of about 25 yards each were on penalties that had nothing to do with the play.
00:29:20
Ah, hold that wouldn't have affected to play anyways, um, you know, he would have had over 100 yards and a touchdown and probably five catches, and his stat line would have been a look a lot nicer.
00:29:31
And I felt bad for him because the place that happened it wasn't like, Well, Russell would have been able to get the ball off because there's the hold him like.
00:29:37
No, the whole was another receiver at the other side of the field that had nothing to do with with the ball going that way, and you could say whatever you want.
00:29:46
So he did actually have a pretty decent game last night had some things negated because of bad penalties by Seattle's offense.
00:29:54
The officiating was God awful.
00:29:56
Last night, I I will put it on the table.
00:29:59
It was God awful there, uh, that last drive right before Arizona had a chance to come back and tie the football game.
00:30:06
And it was like second long, I think, and I'm sure Seattle fans know this.
00:30:13
I tweeted this out with the play to show it where, where the the defender got up on Russell layers, you throwing the football and tapped his helmet.
00:30:22
All the Seattle fans like, Oh my God, you know, that's contacted the helmet.
00:30:26
That's a personal foul for quarterback, blah, blah, blah.
00:30:29
Man, if you watched the start of that play, there was a false start from the right tackle right then, right then, and that wasn't called.
00:30:38
That was actually the second false missed false start.
00:30:42
That game Tuesday missed one in the first half.
00:30:43
A swell on and that's to place.
00:30:46
That's that.
00:30:47
That legitimately was too very obvious.
00:30:50
Do you have a line judge watching straight down the line? If you miss a false start, you shouldn't be in the job anymore.
00:30:59
e think really urgent? No, I wanted to divert its on refering and on penalty calls when you talk about a play like that where there's a holding penalty going back to the D. J.
00:31:14
Metcalf, D.
00:31:15
K.
00:31:16
Metcalf and then the taking away touchdowns, right? Big catches.
00:31:18
Is there a world where, inside of the NFL, they should be looking at that and saying What to play stands.
00:31:24
We'll find a way to reward the Cardinals for a holding penalty over on the other side of the field, but when it's away from the play and it's not an offensive line and holding so that Russell Wilson gets the extra time, But it's just a wide receiver, another cornerback going at it.
00:31:37
I know that you could get into the weeds on it, certainly, but there is a world where you go.
00:31:41
You're going to see a 10 yard penalty on the kickoff on the following dr.
00:31:45
Whatever it looks like, because there is something odd about an occurrence on the other side of the field that in no way impacts the play, taking away from from what occurs right catch or whatever it may look like.
00:31:58
I just I get it.
00:31:59
I'm not saying this is something that that would change, but it is interesting.
00:32:03
It's just it's it pops into my head of like, yeah, on a kickoff on a kickoff play when you say a block in the back that occurs on the opposite side of the field.
00:32:11
And now that it's getting murky because a guy can cross the field and make that kind of play.
00:32:14
But I think you get where I'm going, you know, you get where I'm going here.
00:32:17
Just how much should that be taken into account for? Just like if you said, ah, helmet to helmet hit that occurred on a running play behind the line of scrimmage.
00:32:26
Now the running backs in the second level of the defense, He's surgeon.
00:32:29
He's going downfield and back behind the play.
00:32:32
You see an offensive lineman with a helmet to helmet hit against the defensive line because they're scrubbing about it.
00:32:37
Should that running play necessarily get brought back on that before Lawrence gives his opinion cause I know it's probably gonna be similar to mine.
00:32:44
I do have to make one mention of the blocking in the back penalty.
00:32:48
I have been a proponent for years that the blocking of the back should not be a penalty, that that should be a part of the game.
00:32:54
It's not a danger play.
00:32:55
You're not gonna hurt somebody with a block in the back.
00:32:58
I have no problem with the block in the back.
00:33:00
I think a block in the back, especially on special teams, has negated.
00:33:04
So Maney special plays or has put a team in a position where it's literally A guy had his hand on the guys back and didn't even push and the guys tripped and fell or they crossed FIFA because his hand was on his back.
00:33:16
He got nailed for Ah, you know, a block in the back.
00:33:18
I think it's the worst penalty in football, and if you think it's a safety thing and you really want to do it, it's not a penalty.
00:33:24
You get fined 10 grand after the game.
00:33:27
If that's what you wanna do to deter it.
00:33:28
I hate the block in the back penalty.
00:33:30
I just wanna put that out there.
00:33:31
I think there's no reason you shouldn't be able to.
00:33:35
I think that there's a moment.
00:33:36
It's like when you hit a receiver, right? Uh, sometimes you put it your your shoulder into him, and you hit a defensive receiver.
00:33:45
Sometimes you hit him in the same way, but he took three steps.
00:33:48
So he's not a defenseless receiver, you know, like you can have those kind of judgments if you ran your helmet to a guy's back down the field 100 miles an hour.
00:33:55
Okay, it's an illegal block in the back, but I think a normal block in the back should not be a penalty anyways.
00:34:00
Go ahead, Lawrence.
00:34:02
All right, so yeah, the whole block in the back and defenseless receiver, I think, is exactly the same.
00:34:09
E think the penalty is for the exact same reason.
00:34:12
You know, it's you don't see.
00:34:14
The person can't protect themselves.
00:34:17
That's that's what it is.
00:34:18
And so I mean, that's that's more of, ah, whether you like it or not type situation.
00:34:23
But that's why it's there.
00:34:25
My issue here is the penalty.
00:34:28
Whether it's at the ball around the ball or away from the ball should occur because this is a team game.
00:34:35
E.
00:34:37
I agree the penalty should occur.
00:34:40
I'm just saying, should it should it should eliminate the play that occur, you know, Absolutely.
00:34:47
And I'll tell you why.
00:34:48
Because Because this is a situation where if your d.
00:34:54
K.
00:34:56
Metcalf and some other receiver on the other side is blocking another guy and you get that big touchdown, are you gonna go off to the sideline ****ed off at the at the referees, or you gonna go over there and talk to that wide receiver and say, What the hell did you gotta be a lot better about about this and be smarter because you just ruined my my big play that that's why I see it like that that makes the team play better.
00:35:19
This is something that that's why I say it's a team game.
00:35:23
And this is a situation where you you have to be responsible not only for your end, but for making sure you don't screw up what the rest of the team does as well.
00:35:33
And that's why I love this game because it is a team game.
00:35:37
Uh, not just Thio to move the ball, but to make sure that your guys, when they do do something, well, you don't screw it up even if you're not anywhere around the round it in the first place.
00:35:49
All right, now you've gone down a weedy trail that I have to jump in.
00:35:52
Go ahead, Adam.
00:35:54
I'll tell you why I hate this game. Lawrence.
00:35:57
Hi.
00:35:58
There we go.
00:35:59
And it's almost the same reason you love it.
00:36:02
The Kansas City Chiefs defensive philosophy is we're gonna hold on every play because they can't call a penalty every play.
00:36:09
Well, if that's the case, then then the referees should throw a penalty every game, make it boring, make it 300 yards in penalties. Fine.
00:36:17
Andy Reid.
00:36:18
A million dollars because his team had too many penalties.
00:36:20
Because if you're you know what I mean.
00:36:22
That's what irritates me.
00:36:23
So it's not OK for this guy to hold, but it's okay for this guy to hold.
00:36:27
It's not okay for sometimes.
00:36:29
This is Ah, hold.
00:36:30
Sometimes this isn't a hold sometimes.
00:36:31
Well, it's a whole, but it doesn't affect in the place.
00:36:33
I just like No, you know what, then? Then throw the flag on every play.
00:36:36
You know what I mean? So I get Adam's thing right again.
00:36:39
I'm like it's slowing down because I play that had nothing to do with the play took it away.
00:36:42
Yet It's a league that doesn't call a penalty when it's a penalty.
00:36:46
Go back to go back to the last drive.
00:36:48
Last night they missed, in my opinion, an obvious pass interference against Seattle, which would have given the ball with 44 seconds left to Arizona on the 20 yard line, the same exact same play that they gave the Seattle at the end of the first half.
00:37:06
It was almost identical, So one was a pass interference.
00:37:09
One wasn't.
00:37:10
And referees don't like to throw flags and those kind of moments, right? Oh, I don't want to throw a flag with 44 seconds left and I'm never throw it.
00:37:19
Never throw it.
00:37:20
What what ifit's what if it's no.
00:37:23
You know what if it's the same one you through the same flag on in the first half.
00:37:27
Throw it now, you don't even make it a part of the game.
00:37:30
And you know what? It's interesting because it also gets into that whole DeAndre Hopkins argument. It should.
00:37:34
Wide receivers get Should wide receivers be credited with pass interference? Penalty yards right? Should that be considered a catch right and it's an interesting one, and I've turned around and said Fine, but if you're the target of an interception, because you could have wrong ran because I don't know if you're gonna catch the ball just because there's pass interference.
00:37:53
But if you want those automatic yards added to your total fine if there's an interception thrown.
00:37:58
For all I know, you ran too far or ran ran the wrong route.
00:38:02
Then every yard they take back is minus two.
00:38:04
You know what I mean? Um, and any offensive pass interference, you're gonna lose minus 15 yards to your stats as well.
00:38:12
E don't think that wide receivers would want that. You can't.
00:38:15
You know you can't have the one way, not the other.
00:38:17
I get your argument of why you think, Well, I should be credit for that, but you can't guarantee me you're going to catch that football.
00:38:23
I do want to say something about the whole Andy Reid Kansas City Chiefs thing.
00:38:27
You are correct and there should be a rule amongst the referees when it is blatant that they are taking advantage of you.
00:38:36
Then there should be unsportsmanlike conduct slapped on it but that za way I see it while this isn't by the way, this is my hell to die on.
00:38:44
It was just kind of Ah, you know, extemporaneous got fired up at e.
00:38:49
Get there at some point, but what? But I think that's my point, though.
00:38:53
Lawrence, about that idea of.
00:38:54
That's why you don't call the pass interference or you don't call that a way for especially away from the ball penalty.
00:38:59
That's why you don't call it.
00:39:00
And you find a way to your point about saying, Well, then that cat's gonna go over.
00:39:03
He's gonna talk to his team.
00:39:04
But, hey, what the heck did you do there? That's why you still find a way to not have to be one of those members.
00:39:09
They, uh, 15 yard penalty on the kickoff.
00:39:11
Great.
00:39:12
I'll kick it to the end zone.
00:39:13
Who cares the idea, by the way again, you really wanna get to the weeds? The idea that when you have penalties like that that you don't pull back where the ball is kicked off from, is the is the absolute level of absurdity, because the only way to make a penalty on a kickoff have value is to say we're gonna take it from your own 10.
00:39:30
So you're only gonna make it to their 30.
00:39:32
And now they start from there every time they say 15 yard penalty on the kickoff. Great.
00:39:36
We'll kick it through the end zone.
00:39:38
You still start the same spot.
00:39:39
You always do.
00:39:40
So I think that there's a way to adjust that penalty where you'd say yes.
00:39:43
You have this penalty over here and starting on this next drive, kick the ball off normally, where they get to the 20.
00:39:48
Okay, fine.
00:39:49
You kicked it ends don't find Now.
00:39:50
Give them 15 yards moving to the 35.
00:39:52
And you're still gonna have Metcalfe going over and saying, Hey, man, look what you cost me here and then Thio Ray's point supporting My point is that then you allow for the big play to occur.
00:40:01
Right? Then you allow for that big play to occur.
00:40:03
For Metcalf, the big moves, the chains, impacts the game and and also represents, um, or competitive game.
00:40:10
True to what the teams were doing, right? That's Arizona not being able to defend Metcalfe.
00:40:15
So now met Cast.
00:40:16
That line is really Ah, five for 100 yard day because he was exposing weaknesses and Russell Russell Wilson was hitting them.
00:40:22
You know, I listen again, I need to really get into the nuance of this thing if I want to make a make a totally salient argument.
00:40:27
But there's something there that diminishes the value.
00:40:29
And we said this before.
00:40:30
Maybe I said it last night.
00:40:31
Real quick here is that when they always talk about, they always get down to the inches, fourth and inches.
00:40:37
We're gonna get out the tape.
00:40:38
What's all measure that we gotta make sure you're gonna for 3.
00:40:40
5 plus quarters.
00:40:43
It's all relative.
00:40:44
The guy gets tackled at the 26 they put into 27.
00:40:46
Gets tackled here.
00:40:47
They put it there, the elbow down, up, whatever.
00:40:49
It only matters in the finally, it's all or nothing for me.
00:40:52
Either you're totally attentive to it, or it's a little bit loose, and that's kind of the excitement.
00:40:57
Enjoy the game or really be down to the letter of the law and then throw laundry every single time.
00:41:01
The Kansas City does it because they're obviously they're taking advantage, right? The best coaches take advantage of the rules of the game.
00:41:07
Well, that's what they're exposing right now.
00:41:08
Well, yeah, And you know what it's really like.
00:41:11
There's an old hockey argument around.
00:41:12
This is well, right.
00:41:14
Do you build a team to be cut to to win the NHL season? Or do you build a team to win the Stanley Cup? Because you gotta build two different teams? Because suddenly the rules change.
00:41:26
When you get into the NHL playoffs, right? All of a sudden you can clutch a little more, grab a little more, hit a little harder, you know, suddenly whistles or in pockets.
00:41:33
And I agree with you in the last five minutes of a football game.
00:41:37
Suddenly the spot is dead on.
00:41:39
There's no moving forward.
00:41:40
There's no moving backwards, right? They will discuss where that football goes.
00:41:44
How many times have you heard it? Announcer go Well, that's a generous spot.
00:41:48
You're watching the replay, it almost thinking challenges.
00:41:51
That's like two yards up the field.
00:41:53
You know what I mean? Where it's like it is what it is.
00:41:55
But it's funny that last five minutes the inches becomes some more valuable.
00:41:59
And yet the laundry becomes less right.
00:42:02
Suddenly it's like, Okay, it has to be egregious for us to call the penalty.
00:42:06
I'm gonna knickknack you.
00:42:07
We're gonna make the first quarter so boring that people are gonna turn the game off because there's so many freaking penalties being thrown and suddenly in the last minute of the game and one of the most crucial moments.
00:42:17
I'm not throwing my flag on a blatant pass interference call.
00:42:20
I can't do that.
00:42:21
And now again, Did Arizona lose the game because of that? Not that non call.
00:42:25
No, you put yourself in that position, you you scored 13 points.
00:42:30
You know what I mean? Or 20 you know, two or 21 point.
00:42:32
What the hell is the score of the game now? 2020 2020 when you scored 21 points in a game where you got two possessions on turnovers? So you know, I'm not blaming the right freeze, but I'm saying as a casual fan who really didn't care, who won this game is that had no effect of what's happening in my season.
00:42:49
I just kind of went like, This is awful.
00:42:51
This is boring on some of these calls and then the other parts of like, how do you miss a false start? How do you miss an offside? How do you miss a blatant encroachment? Like? And that's why I think as thistles.
00:43:05
Why? I'm a big proponent.
00:43:06
I don't want you to find referees.
00:43:08
I want you to fire referees that you know these guys don't make NFL player type of money.
00:43:12
They got families to feed a lot of them.
00:43:14
It's just there part time job.
00:43:16
But Kyler Murray had to go stand in front of the media last night.
00:43:20
Cliff had to go stand in.
00:43:21
Russell Wilson, stand in front of media.
00:43:23
They all had to answer for what happened on the field. Hate, DeAndre.
00:43:26
Why'd you only have 51 yards and passing? Hey, why did you fumble the football? Hey, how come you guys couldn't stop the run? Hey, Kenyan, How come you can't run the football anymore? They had to answer for those Did the referees have to come out and say This is why we missed two false starts.
00:43:40
This is why we completely botched and didn't call an obvious pass interference.
00:43:45
That could have changed the game.
00:43:46
No, they don't and referees should have to face the media and explained to us, I don't want to hear from the head of officiating.
00:43:54
I want to hear from the referee that night in front of 30 or 40 media personnel off the team that they screwed.
00:43:59
You know what I mean with a bad call? You don't You don't want the NFL.
00:44:03
Tuesday they go.
00:44:04
We acknowledge that there was a mistake on Sunday night that we acknowledge that there was error here.
00:44:08
And I'm telling you, if referees would have to answer for their miss takes the same way players and coaches air accountable for it, you would see referees get a lot sharper or maybe used.
00:44:19
You have replay you.
00:44:21
I mean, do you know how fast the game or how much the game wouldn't slow down if they just buzzed down? There was a hold or by the Okay, So I'm glad that we walk down here, we're gonna get out the door.
00:44:31
But that's the perfect thing.
00:44:33
Is the idea that you have replay you have, and this is true of every single sport, by the way, just tell them what it is.
00:44:40
Your function is to communicate to the teams on the field and to the viewing audience.
00:44:45
What's occurring If you have the ability to set someone for every game across the spectrum every single weekend and stay holding penalty number 67 on the offensive line, bring it back, you know, just communicated in the year.
00:44:57
Nobody who cares.
00:45:00
All I care about is that, and by the way, it happens quickly in real time.
00:45:03
I don't need the huddle ups right when they go to huddle up, have them doing the bull Durham.
00:45:06
We've got a wedding coming up.
00:45:08
We think candlesticks Good idea.
00:45:09
And the guy in the year goes, Yeah, it's a whole Don't worry about it. Get back to the lot.
00:45:12
You know, I just don't understand this weird mechanism of technology, not technology.
00:45:16
It's all there.
00:45:17
It's all part of the game.
00:45:18
Why slow things down when you can just have it be so clearly and quickly communicated? This is exactly where I thought we were gonna go by the way the mainstream and I agree with you. I agree to that.
00:45:27
I say it's about technology time.
00:45:28
I'm actually not a technology guy.
00:45:30
I would rather I'm sorry technology ruined baseball from the mere fact that I don't get to watch managers lose it every game.
00:45:38
You know what I mean? That was one of the best parts of baseball.
00:45:40
Is watching Joe Maddon go out and have one of his or or, you know, go or Tim Leland go out and have a A major fit.
00:45:45
But I agree with you.
00:45:46
You have technology, the one you want, one that drives me the craziest.
00:45:50
You review every scoring play, but you don't review every non scoring play.
00:45:53
So if a guy if if a guy makes a catch in the end zone and you call it incomplete, it has to be challenged.
00:46:00
Yet the Patriots fell into a situation where they were out of challenges.
00:46:03
Nikkila Harry scored a touchdown.
00:46:04
This was last season, scored a touchdown against Kansas City Chiefs, which, by the way, would have put the Patriots up, and they called him out of bounds four yards down the field.
00:46:13
Replays showed he didn't.
00:46:14
Belichick was out of challenges.
00:46:16
Well, if he would have scored a touchdown, they would have reviewed it automatically because he didn't score a touchdown.
00:46:21
It wasn't automatically reviewed well, you know, like you have the technology.
00:46:27
So let me give you I'm gonna give you last word Lawrence on this because because to raise point, I could care less one way or the other, because you could, because the idea you have to challenges.
00:46:36
So it means any more than two challengeable plays.
00:46:39
You're out of luck. Fine.
00:46:41
It's a weird methods you want in both your great and even that is weird, though.
00:46:45
So I was right twice.
00:46:46
So I get one more.
00:46:47
What if I get the third one right? Then I should have 1/4 1.
00:46:49
If you if you keep screwing up, I should have more, but see how impaired.
00:46:53
But, I mean, how that's just indicative of how much these guys air wrong that normally, coaches, unless they're doing it like a you might as well.
00:47:01
And that's what happened with Belichick was a moment for you might as well challenged this and he lost it.
00:47:06
Didn't realize he's gonna bite him in eight minutes later.
00:47:09
But it's that's how and that your your referees are that coaches have a challenge.
00:47:16
This is like there's been a challenge and freaking, you're right and the referee.
00:47:20
Still got it.
00:47:21
Wrong s okay.
00:47:22
So here's my point, though, right? So you can either either either do it, have the have the in the ear, tell them what the deal is or do it this way in the presentation of the game.
00:47:31
Show the live, give one look at the replay.
00:47:34
Stop showing it 17,000 times because that's the problem with the product to is, what you end up doing is now.
00:47:40
If we zoom in here on his toe tap, you can see that the razor thin line and I get it.
00:47:44
But once you go into that, now that's how we're looking at the referees now.
00:47:48
That's how we're looking at every call.
00:47:49
Now that's how we're judging every single game and play, and I get it.
00:47:52
You want things to be right, But guess what? Free HDTV and pre the technology that allowed for these things and pre challenges and reviews You went Wow, What a catch.
00:48:03
You didn't know that it wasn't a catch.
00:48:05
You didn't know that half of this foot was out of bounds.
00:48:07
And it's all it's all relative and some of the excitement racing about baseball, some of the excitement of one side freaking out that they think he was out of bounds.
00:48:14
One guy celebrating, running to the line.
00:48:15
You know what I mean? Like all those elements of the game, it gets a little bit diluted and the pace get slowed down a little bit as well.
00:48:20
Here's a perfect for Lawrence finishes us off.
00:48:22
You're You're a soccer fan.
00:48:24
I'm a soccer fan.
00:48:25
How much are you enjoying the fact now that we can't celebrate a goal? Because I don't know if you're a that point, but buying.
00:48:32
I'm a buyer man.
00:48:33
Byron scores a goal one minute left in the game, and there's no reaction for me cause I'm like, Was he half an inch offside? And, you know, I don't blame the officials.
00:48:43
They said, Hey, you wanted it.
00:48:45
I don't care if it's a piece of paper.
00:48:47
I don't care if it's that much of his foot. That was offside.
00:48:49
He's offside.
00:48:50
No goal.
00:48:51
I don't blame them.
00:48:52
You guys want to embarrass us.
00:48:53
You guys want to be able to challenge everything.
00:48:56
No problem.
00:48:57
We're gonna call the way it is.
00:48:58
As a soccer fan, though I've said it to my Dad.
00:49:00
It's ruined the game.
00:49:01
I sit there and go goal and I have no reaction.
00:49:04
No.
00:49:05
And by and by the way, even soccer at least has done it better.
00:49:08
Where when they check for goals, right, did it break the plane? They have the ball technology so attracts where the ball is.
00:49:14
And when they go to do reviews, they get a buzz in their ear.
00:49:17
They stop, they hold for a second, and they wait for them to say, Now they still go over and do the review, which is a little bit silly.
00:49:23
You could tell them, but they go okay, it's gonna be review time or it's not.
00:49:27
It's a goal that isn't so.
00:49:28
They've even at least try to mitigate the slowdown of that as well.
00:49:31
And the 100% man like it goes goal and you go Maybe, yeah, maybe.
00:49:35
And I looked tight, you know, he wasn't by the way shoulder the front edge of his shoulder.
00:49:41
I could see it, and that's the difference.
00:49:42
At that point, I'm like it's a goal.
00:49:44
Even if it's against my team, it's a goal.
00:49:46
You don't get to say that.
00:49:47
The timing of that plan.
00:49:48
I know American football fans are loving this, but you don't get to say that.
00:49:51
The timing off a midfielder that ties a lofted pass perfectly with the right way to get his center, get the striker over the top of the defense to get inside, and then he times his shop perfectly picks the right side of that.
00:50:03
Beats the goalkeeper.
00:50:05
That's not worth it, and it's a front eighth of it.
00:50:09
And shoulder line was it was occupied.
00:50:12
Yeah, I agree.
00:50:13
Taking over like a football.
00:50:15
But this is what technology has done to sport.
00:50:18
But But you can see the relevance of technology and sports, though, and how it's just it's at times it's ruined it, right? It's ruined this year.
00:50:26
Celebrated Torrey piece.
00:50:28
Here's here's Here's A Here's the problem with, uh, having someone like from the officer.
00:50:35
What not called down the referee and go, Hey, there's a hole here or hey, there was offsides or hey, you missed this Called games.
00:50:44
You would never have an odd scoring game because no field goals and no touchdowns would ever be played.
00:50:50
The score would be 12 to 14 because they'd all be safeties That's the way I see it, because there is holding and and And this and there is a penalty somewhere on the field, every play, all play all the time.
00:51:04
Now, was it agreed You enough to be called.
00:51:07
That's something that, Yes, I believe that if you look in a referee, somehow missed, uh, an offensive lineman literally bear hugging and bringing someone down to the ground.
00:51:19
Yes, that needs to be called down to the referees and say, Hey, you missed this.
00:51:24
Your eyes wouldn't over here at this specific time.
00:51:27
This needs to be called because every fan in the entire world saw it and were looking like stupid idiots because you're not calling it.
00:51:35
So I get I get what you're saying, Lawrence.
00:51:38
And actually I have to bring it back to soccer because this is the actual comparison.
00:51:41
So in soccer, they won't. You can't.
00:51:44
They won't review If somebody fouled.
00:51:45
You're not unless it's for a penalty shot.
00:51:47
Unless it affected the goal, they won't say, Hey, I got hit behind you.
00:51:50
They're not gonna go back and say yes, But if it's an egregious penalty, the thing could be a red card.
00:51:56
It could consummate that you need to be ejected from the game or you were ejected from the game and you're like, Hey, it wasn't that bad.
00:52:02
They will review it to say, How bad was the foul for real? So I could see that maybe you're not looking for holds on the offensive line, but if it's a non obvious miss pass interference or holding down field or something that actually has a full effect.
00:52:16
But then here's where the argument comes.
00:52:19
Okay? So we're not looking at holds on the offensive line.
00:52:21
And then Damian Harris boss off a 50 yard run because the whole was his large is the Mack truck.
00:52:26
Is that not an egregious penalty that wasn't come by? And by the way, the NFL has made that choice coming into this season that they don't They're not calling as we know it.
00:52:34
Offensive defensive lines, right? There's holes all the time.
00:52:36
You said, like, listen, we're gonna kind of just look past some of the little stuff because we don't wanna bog the game down there, on the other hand, will bog it down over here in this readout.
00:52:44
Listen, you can even get in the very simplest, the simplistic thing of ah judge down near the end zone when they watch a wide receiver toe tap his feet and as he catches a touchdown pass, it's impossible to be both viewing if he has the ball and is controlling it and also watching if his feet are inbound, it's just you're asking too much for this to be accomplished by a single set of eyes or even by four guys across the spectrum of 100 yard field.
00:53:08
Listen, we could we could keep doing it. Friends.
00:53:11
And maybe, and maybe we all need to circle up here beyond this stream and get back into some of this stuff, as we all knew we were going to get into the referees and the rules of the game.
00:53:19
And the construct of the NFL is the hole that this is where we knew we would go.
00:53:21
We have to run out of here quickly, so I'll say we all know follow Lawrence, follow Ray.
00:53:26
Follow myself here.
00:53:27
I won't even let him.
00:53:28
It's a Friday morning, guys.
00:53:30
Enjoy the weekend.
00:53:31
I'm not gonna let Ray get into the microphone and start insulting you. If you don't have your profile.
00:53:35
Go up and create one.
00:53:36
Follow us like us.
00:53:38
Give a donation.
00:53:39
If you really appreciate the content, you're gonna have DPM Ray doing his thing.
00:53:43
You're gonna have Lawrence breaking down all of the NFL film coverage.
00:53:46
We will be back because I'm back tonight on this guy's back tonight.
00:53:50
So watch him as he does his film as he does some film breakdown and game preview work. Later today.
00:53:55
Sunday morning, these guys will be getting together to break down the entire slate of Sunday games as well for all three of us.
00:54:02
We thank you for checking in with us and we will catch up with you soon.
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Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury pinpoint one key area that doomed them vs. Seahawks

The Arizona Cardinals were far from their best on Thursday night, as they succumbed to the Seattle Seahawks, 28-21. After the game, Cardinals star quarterback Kyler Murray and coach Kliff Kingsbury were in agreement as to the biggest factor that led to Arizona’s defeat: penalties. The Cardinals received no less than 10 penalties throughout the […]

The post Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury pinpoint one key area that doomed them vs. Seahawks appeared first on ClutchPoints.... Read Article
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Adam Armbrecht @AdamArmbrecht

Transcript hideup

00:00:00
Oh, SportsCastr news.
00:00:02
NFL side of things.
00:00:03
Where, as promised, from last night, Ray has joined us.
00:00:07
But someone has not shown up today.
00:00:09
We wish, Lawrence nothing but the best.
00:00:12
Typically, we find out later.
00:00:13
It could have been an alarm clock scenario.
00:00:15
In the meantime, though.
00:00:16
Good to have you in, Ray.
00:00:18
How're you doing on a Friday morning coming off a Thursday night football game that, unfortunately, you and I.
00:00:23
And if maybe this is why Lawrence isn't here.
00:00:24
We all have some lumps to take as the Seattle Seahawks beat the Cardinals there. 2021.
00:00:30
What an absolute just shocking game last night from so many different perspectives, man.
00:00:36
I mean, it's number one.
00:00:37
It wasn't the big, high scoring event that we all thought it was gonna be.
00:00:41
Seattle figured out how to run the football.
00:00:44
Arizona had zero chemistry on offense last night, and I'm gonna tell you, uh, I finished watching the game this morning.
00:00:54
I had to deal with some work stuff last night.
00:00:55
They didn't finish till very late.
00:00:57
I'm gonna tell you, it was one of the worst officiated games of the season as well, and I'll go deeper into that, but just absolute shocking.
00:01:03
I'm not shocked, Seattle one.
00:01:05
Even though I thought Arizona's gonna win, that wasn't the shocking matter, but just the whole game.
00:01:09
And how it all unraveled was very shocking to me.
00:01:11
And I'm kind of sitting here in a little bit of disbelief this morning.
00:01:14
Yeah, you know, it's funny because Lawrence had brought it up previously.
00:01:18
I think one of the Colts games that we had reviewed and I kind of dismissed it as.
00:01:21
And I think you can usually say this like the refereeing is what it is.
00:01:25
You know, there's these highs and lows and then some games just get more egregious than others.
00:01:29
And it could just come down Thio what feels like the more obvious ones they want to be big plays.
00:01:34
They could just be things that seems so obvious that when they miss them or they go the wrong way of the call, um, it makes you feel like you're not getting the most legitimate level of competition.
00:01:43
Uh, you mentioned Seattle and finding a running game.
00:01:47
I'm a little bit shocked that the return of Carlos Hyde still behind the battle offensive line.
00:01:54
It was surprising to me to see that he that he was able to be as effective as he was, and then he meant that much to them because we know Carson's supposedly really the guy on.
00:02:02
We know that Seattle is rotated through players ever since Marshawn Lynch's time, really, in terms of what they're backfields made off.
00:02:07
But, yeah, I was surprised that they found that rhythm as much as they did their And if I was going to give us an out as we get into this year, um, the fact that Kyler Murray seemed to very early in this game be dealing with a shoulder issue.
00:02:20
There's a handful of throws throughout this, including at the end of the first half there when when these teams were exchanging punts within two minutes.
00:02:26
Yet four possessions over the last 2.
00:02:28
5 minutes of the first half.
00:02:29
Because he can't just get this little flick pass to get it out to DeAndre toe Hopkins and let him really go on a big, big run there.
00:02:35
But no, uh, are you Did your mind change here about the Seattle Seahawks and what their outlook is down the stretch of the season because we were really talking about both these teams about this being a linchpin game for them and how we feel about them down the stretch and going into the playoffs potentially.
00:02:50
I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, Adam.
00:02:52
My mindset changed against about Arizona Mawr than it changed about Seattle because you mentioned this last night and it was a really great point that I think you, Lawrence and I were both missing was we have seen a lot of Jacqueline hide out of Arizona this season.
00:03:08
We've seen really good Arizona teams, and we've seen not so really good Arizona teams.
00:03:12
But that's more come around the offensive side of the game last night.
00:03:15
Yes, they had some offensive issues.
00:03:17
They had some defensive issues, too.
00:03:19
I do not believe that Seattle actually found their run game.
00:03:23
I don't believe that This we're going to see a repeat of what do they have 162 yards rushing last night.
00:03:28
This, I think, was more in Arizona because yes, look.
00:03:30
Carlos Hyde, 14 carries 79 yards, averaged 5.
00:03:33
6 yards per carry.
00:03:35
Both Scarborough averaged five point Wilson average 4.
00:03:39
2 like everybody was running the football at ease.
00:03:44
And that will last night.
00:03:46
And the offense wasn't recovering on the other side of the ball to keep them off the field.
00:03:51
And what I got to say about Arizona's offense.
00:03:53
And we saw this against Detroit as well.
00:03:56
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot with penalties on every play, even when Seattle's defense was taking stupid penalties and letting you pick up first downs because of it.
00:04:09
Actually, both defense is we're giving up some bad penalties last night, giving up first downs on penalties.
00:04:14
Arizona just continuously kept shooting themselves in the foot.
00:04:16
And I wasn't impressed with their defense And what I saw last night out of Arizona, now granted there, playing Seattle.
00:04:22
But it reminded me of the team that lost to Detroit.
00:04:25
Yeah, and again, um, I would not fear playing Arizona if I'm gonna play them in the NFC championship game this year.
00:04:35
Well, and so that that's the thing that I think, same kind of line, right? I said, I don't know if it's really move the needle for me on Seattle.
00:04:41
Obviously, it looks like that, and they have a week schedule going down the stretch.
00:04:43
They make the playoffs.
00:04:44
I don't They're not going to terrify me.
00:04:47
And then maybe the other thing that I realized was also I don't know if Arizona with, You know, I thought they had the potential to be a scary team.
00:04:53
I don't know if they do now.
00:04:55
You talk about the offensive line and we highlighted.
00:04:57
They've been playing better, consistent over the year, and then you get Justin Pugh with multiple false start penalties.
00:05:02
You get Humphries with false start penalties, and they even said it on the broadcast last night.
00:05:05
Remember, they're not hearing what we're hearing when we watched the game.
00:05:09
In terms of that crowd, noises like this is dead silence.
00:05:13
This is being able to execute your place and the fact that over 100 yards and penalties they mentioned something in there and obviously the plenty to go through here.
00:05:20
But they mentioned something about the Cliff Kingsbury attitude around the team.
00:05:23
Right? Young team, You identify with them, you're young coach.
00:05:25
They have cell phone breaks and practices to check in on their social media, and and this is true about any coaching personality because you're seeing this.
00:05:33
My team is the Giants, right? Everyone is on board with the way Joe judges handling things right now, because there's a lot of positivity around the team.
00:05:39
It's on Leah's good as it as it extends when the quality of the play is still there.
00:05:43
But as soon as you have a night like that last night, all of a sudden you start to say, What about the attention to detail? What about the little things that matter in a game that is as poor as it kind of was for Arizona in all phases? In some ways, you still lost by set? Yeah, I mean you.
00:05:59
And you'd say, Well, if you just cleaned it up, you could do it Now the question because yeah, but can you clean it up? Are you a team that has the track record under under Kingsbury so far to say you can you can clean up these mistakes and you can get better and the other sub piece here is to they mentioned it.
00:06:16
He ends up having a decent game.
00:06:17
I guess you could say superstar wide receivers, right? And I love Hopkins, but the effect of we mentioned about Baker Mayfield.
00:06:25
We had a discussion with LBJ and the impact we went all the way back to even Eli Manning and the Giants days with LBJ.
00:06:31
Is there start? Do you have to worry about the concern of how does Kyler Murray approach the games, and how does he look at this? Great elevate Just had a hell Mary Touchdown BTO win the game final seconds.
00:06:41
By the way, one Hail Mary Pass.
00:06:43
Not being caught away from being a 500 team right now.
00:06:46
Do you have to start to worry about the mentality of that offense and how reliant they may get on that? Because running game has been complimentary, obviously, and Murray has his legs at some point, a good deep.
00:06:57
Seattle's not a good defense, and they were able to box you in a little bit last night when you faced some of the better defense is in the league.
00:07:04
It could get very ugly quickly on that side of the ball.
00:07:07
Yeah, it really could.
00:07:09
And we're starting to see that the Shawn Watson Effect and Kyler Murray because the Sean watching the game ran through DeAndre Hopkins and we saw the game plan fall apart at times because of it.
00:07:19
Now I know Houston hasn't had a good season.
00:07:21
I put a lot of that on Bill O Brien.
00:07:23
They looked like a much more improved team since he's left and Romeo has taken over and he's got Will Fuller and Randall Cobb and Kenny Stills and Brandon cooks to throw the football, too.
00:07:33
He can actually spread it around the field.
00:07:35
But when we focusing on Arizona, Yeah, he was that.
00:07:38
You could tell that game plan went to DeAndre Hopkins and he got what, five catches for 51 yards.
00:07:43
I'm also gonna talk about Arizona.
00:07:45
The other time when you want to talk about bad defense is, you know, normally in these type of games, I mean, last night I said, It's gonna come down to who makes a mistake and who wins the turnover battle? Well, you know what? Seattle made a lot of mistakes in Seattle, got slaughtered in the turnover battle to to nothing and still won the football game because Arizona could not do anything with the turnovers.
00:08:04
And that's what I think disappoints me the most.
00:08:06
And when you talk about this you know the young team, young coach, cellphone breaks.
00:08:11
I don't like to do this, but I do want to think about Bill Belichick and them and the players asking him, Can we have cell phone breaks or Joe Judge? Who's off the Belichick tree? Can we have cell phone breaks? I'll even say I want to see Aaron Rodgers go to Matt LaFleur and say, Can we have cell phone breaks? You're going to get the look like, Are you kidding me? Or or Sean Payton? I can only imagine what? Forget that.
00:08:32
Imagine going to Jon Gruden and saying, Can we have some cell phone breaks? Go to Sean Payton.
00:08:37
I mean, there's a lot.
00:08:38
There's a lot of scenario.
00:08:39
I mean, not even guys that are considered to be disciplinarians, where you say Go to that guy and say like, you go to Pete Carroll, who is probably the and Mike Tomlin are probably the two biggest players coaches in the NFL, and they look like there's football time on their cell phone time.
00:08:53
You don't have to have your cell phone on when we're playing football, and I think that's the thing.
00:08:57
Is that preparation? No.
00:08:58
you know, Is he trying a new approach to do? They have cell phone breaks next year.
00:09:02
Well, maybe turns around and goes, Hey, you know, this didn't work.
00:09:05
We can't do it.
00:09:06
But I'm not gonna I'm honestly, I'm not gonna put this game on the coaching staff, and I'm not gonna put this game on Kyler.
00:09:12
Murray, I'm gonna be honest with you.
00:09:13
This was a game that you could have ran your regular offense.
00:09:16
It was so tight the whole time.
00:09:17
Yeah, you're playing from behind.
00:09:19
But you could've just ran your regular offense.
00:09:21
Kenyan Drake is not worth the ink that he used to sign his contract.
00:09:25
Unfortunately, he ran the ball what 12 times last night for 11 2011 for 29 averaging 2.
00:09:33
6 like that's not effect.
00:09:36
That's not an effective way to run the football chase.
00:09:39
Edmunds runs it twice and gets 13 yards out of it, you know, like, are you surprised that the pause on that Are you surprised? Because they this was talked about a handful of weeks ago about transitioning from Drake being the primary toe Edmonds and it looked like it was trending that way.
00:09:52
and they very much back to offer that, and you would all surprised they haven't at least sample that size a little bit bigger just to find out. Maybe they understand.
00:10:00
Hey, more carries.
00:10:01
It's gonna look relatively the same.
00:10:02
But you have to at some point try something different because again, Sub three or even, you know you to be above four yards per carry to be a complimentary run game, and you've just seen too many misses her Drake on a week to week basis.
00:10:15
I wonder if this is a Kyler Murray thing rather than, ah, hesitant of wanting to move on from Drake, I wonder if this is where Murray sits comfortable inside of the offense.
00:10:24
He's still, you know, I think what we got we have to remember that gets lost a little bit.
00:10:30
Is this is Onley Kyler Murray.
00:10:32
Second year in the NFL.
00:10:34
He's, you know, he's barely off his rookie season.
00:10:36
He did complete four passes to Kenyan Drake last night.
00:10:39
Now he did the same thing with Edmunds, but I just wonder if this is more of a let's keep things as comfortable and as consistent as possible for him.
00:10:47
But At some point in time, you're gonna have to look at your quarterback and say, Dude, we have a chance to win the division.
00:10:53
We have a chance to make a playoff run.
00:10:55
We have a chance to go to a Super Bowl with the team that we have, We need to try something different.
00:11:00
Is this also we committed to Kenyan Drake? We gave him the money.
00:11:04
We, you know, he came through for us last year.
00:11:07
Or is this Cliff just hoping, man, Can you just show us a flash of last season? You know, if this guy gets it together and starts putting up 70 80 90 yard games again, this offense is unstoppable.
00:11:21
And by the way, like you lose this game, you're six and four.
00:11:24
You win the week prior, so you avoid maybe being 500.
00:11:26
As long as you're winning games, you can always say, Well, it's developing, It's progressing, We see the progress.
00:11:32
The offensive line is getting better.
00:11:33
So we see bigger things coming down the road and then as you lose a couple of games and e even said it.
00:11:38
You know San Francisco has been an absolute disaster because of all the injuries they've dealt with and therefore, and six, you know, take away the Hail Mary and your one game better than the 40 Niners this year.
00:11:49
If you're the Cardinals and you mentioned Colin Murray second year, I think there's a ton of validity to that as well, right? And we've seen this about so many young quarterbacks judging them, we got you know, we'll get the small sample size rookie season automatically say that they're gonna be incredible.
00:12:02
We're gonna be talking about M v P opportunities or with Lamar Jackson.
00:12:05
What a disaster.
00:12:06
They made a terrible choice.
00:12:07
Then your number two flip the script looks like this guy's worthy of M V. P is now.
00:12:11
Midway through the season, they're saying Lamar Jackson, it's a disaster.
00:12:15
He can't do it, you know? So the pendulum swinging in terms of how we react to these things is probably far too aggressive on a week to week or game to game basis.
00:12:24
And still, yeah, there's I sent this to this morning on the on.
00:12:29
The Giants won about the NFC West.
00:12:32
It's ultra competitive, and there's a lot of winds there, and also I don't know if any one of those teams is someone that I'd hang my hat on, right? The Rams have not been the Rams over the course of this year, either.
00:12:45
It's funny you say that because the Rams is the only team I believe in the probably one of the highest confidence.
00:12:50
And in spite of it, right.
00:12:51
In spite of it, I feel like they're still in opportunity there.
00:12:54
And that has a lot to do with again balance of the team overall on both sides of the football.
00:12:58
Yeah, and I think that's, you know, I'm gonna And look, since you to be brought up the Giants, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a comparison here.
00:13:05
Let's compare Kyler Murray to Daniel Jones this season.
00:13:08
Uh, I would say that the directory from Week one to Week six Daniel Jones was doing this thing.
00:13:14
Giants, fans, minds and Kyler. Murray was here.
00:13:17
I'm gonna argue it's not a steep Kyler.
00:13:19
Murray's maybe playing out lovely.
00:13:21
No, but Daniel Jones is slowly starting to do the rises.
00:13:25
A second year quarterback, we're starting to see a little bit of rhythm.
00:13:29
We're starting to see a little bit of sense.
00:13:30
Yeah, wiped out over a line on a for short touchdown.
00:13:33
You know that's gonna live within the rest of spirit.
00:13:35
It's gonna happen, But it happens with We can see this happen on, and I don't like going back to this theme that I'm going to, because it's kind of relevant right now.
00:13:42
Let's look at the New England Patriots, who two weeks ago I came out and said their season's over, they lost to the Buffalo or they got blown out by San Francisco.
00:13:50
Then they lost the Bills, the season's over.
00:13:52
All of a sudden, they face the New York Jets, which seems to fix everybody's problems.
00:13:56
Then they have that big win in Baltimore.
00:13:57
But one thing we've seen since the Buffalo game is an offense that's starting to trend up.
00:14:02
We're starting, You know.
00:14:03
Jacoby Meyers is now the third rated wide receiver on PF and Pff.
00:14:07
Damian Harris is a number two.
00:14:08
Running back Cam Newton, unbelievably, is rated 13 amongst quarterbacks.
00:14:12
You know, with I think it's seven other teams who have winning records, their quarterbacks or below them, and you're starting to see that trend.
00:14:19
You're seeing the same thing with the Giants whereas with the West, when you're looking at the Russell Wilson's and the Kyler Murray's, you're starting to see a downward trend.
00:14:27
Even after last night's game, nothing changed for me for Seattle last night.
00:14:30
You played in Arizona team that allowed you to do what you wanted to do.
00:14:34
I do not expect Seattle to come out and have a balanced offense like they did against any sort of decent defense.
00:14:40
I do wanna throw it an interesting number, though, because I saw this on Twitter this morning.
00:14:44
I don't have the numbers story, but an interesting fact.
00:14:46
I saw that this on Twitter this morning.
00:14:48
Kyler Murray is almost identical in numbers to where Lamar Jackson was at this point of the season last year, and he was voted unanimous.
00:14:56
M v p of the league.
00:14:58
Is it? It's funny, though, how I don't think Kyler Murray is getting put on the same pedestal is Lamar Jackson was last year.
00:15:04
Ah, part of that is Baltimore is one of those MAWR historical recent historical teams, Um, but they also had a really saw the defense that could bail them out of games.
00:15:15
And when you were 15 and one, you're gonna be in the spotlight.
00:15:19
More where with Arizona.
00:15:20
Even the numbers were similar.
00:15:22
I I think that people do see like you.
00:15:24
You should have lost the buffalo like let's not let's not lose sight of that.
00:15:28
You should have lost the buffalo.
00:15:30
You through a Hail Mary and really Buffalo let you in that game.
00:15:33
Otherwise you probably should have lost by 2 to 3 scores.
00:15:36
And then I'm sorry you looked awful against Seattle last night on, and I don't I want to take it all the way from Seattle either.
00:15:44
That's my big thing out of my thing.
00:15:45
I don't wanna be critical of a team who? Just one.
00:15:47
Yeah.
00:15:48
And by the way, I think as we, uh as well welcome Lawrenson s so he could take his lumps around the decision making.
00:15:53
We all had last night calling this game, but I think you're right and that you know the funny.
00:15:57
The funny thing about comparing what Lamar Jackson was and how the league looked at him versus Kyle Murray.
00:16:02
This year, oddly enough, doesn't even have to do with them.
00:16:05
It has to do with the defense.
00:16:07
The defense is so much stronger in Baltimore, so the record looks that much better.
00:16:11
So then some of the week to week errors and the stakes for Lamar Jackson.
00:16:14
I think it's swept under the rug because you're continuing to win.
00:16:16
And as we all know, that quarterbacks lead the team.
00:16:18
Doesn't matter if it's happening on defense.
00:16:19
So if Arizona was a give Arizona Baltimore's defense, then you're elevating Kyler Murray, Justus High.
00:16:26
And I think you're looking at that same way because the bird's eye view is one loss won loss record.
00:16:32
Of course, he has to be leading this team.
00:16:33
There has to be doing all the right things more often than not to have success for the team overall, Um, as we get into it, Lawrence and welcome you.
00:16:40
And, of course, this morning, one of the things that I also looked at two you mentioned about Ray.
00:16:45
Is Seattle going to be able to have this kind of consistent offensive output? Remember, we talked about number of past attempts at Russell Wilson had you through just 28 last night.
00:16:52
Two touchdowns, no interceptions under under 200 yards passing.
00:16:56
Yeah, that looks like the recipe for success.
00:17:00
for them and something that they can't do with consistency.
00:17:04
Lawrence, I don't wanna put you under the fire here, but how do you look at Russell Wilson? The performance from last night and the sustainability is a team for Seattle.
00:17:12
Approach games like that week in, week out.
00:17:15
Well, before I get started, I just want to apologize for being so late.
00:17:18
I actually my fault.
00:17:20
I honestly I'm sitting here looking at the clock, thinking it's until freaking tent.
00:17:26
I've legitimately thought I was an hour, you know? It was an hour earlier.
00:17:32
And then when I get on my computer and I look and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I am way late and I jump on and you're watching me, right? Chop it up there, Really Get into it about this game thinking, Where am I? Yeah, I thought the stream was done by the time because I've seen the times like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna have to apologize like crazy.
00:17:50
Well, look, lucky for you, Adam and I got entrenched in some, like, deep conversation, and all of a sudden realized it was 10. 30.
00:17:57
So Okay, so my prediction was a little off and there's a reason for that.
00:18:04
Just like everybody's prediction was a little off.
00:18:06
But I didn't realize Carlos Hyde was back.
00:18:10
Carlos Hyde was a huge piece.
00:18:13
In my opinion.
00:18:14
I think he's bigger than Carson, uh, in this run game, because he brings ah, physicality to the run game that they just have not had, uh, for Seattle.
00:18:23
And with that, it doesn't It's not all on.
00:18:26
Russell Wilson shoulders if Carlos Hyde is able to run that football because he can run that football very well.
00:18:32
And if they're able to do that, then especially Cardinals well, let me ask you that, kid, Can Carlos hi do that for Seattle consistently against better defensive play? Because one of the things Ray and I were talking about earlier here was, and race, that is like the Cardinals defense, though they're not.
00:18:50
They're not one of the better defense in the league, and it does.
00:18:51
It doesn't take away the performance from Carlos Hyde, by the way, without him, they probably lose that game, although they spread it around nicely in that backfield with some of the other players as well.
00:19:00
But do you think that they can really lean on that week to week behind that offensive line to help balance out what they expect from Russell Wilson.
00:19:06
From what I've seen from Carlos Hyde throughout his career with the Browns, with the Texans on bandwidth Seattle earlier in the season.
00:19:16
Yes, I think Carlos Hyde is that good of a running back.
00:19:19
The running backs that they've had over the past over the course of the year without him just hasn't been able to do anything even with this off.
00:19:27
But now is he gonna average six yard to carry? Probably not, but I think that you could consistently expect around four yards for Carlos Hyde.
00:19:37
Game in game out, even against good defense, is.
00:19:40
And I think that's a huge, huge, huge addition to this team, where they could actually run the football and not have to worry about third and longs on a consistent basis that Russell Wilson has to sit there and run for.
00:19:54
But, man, I'll tell you what.
00:19:57
The thing that surprised me was Seattle's defense.
00:20:02
When the world were they able to stop them run right.
00:20:06
That's what we just walked through.
00:20:07
That idea of expectations for Drake and is it him.
00:20:12
Is it him? Was it the defense? You know who gets credit? Who gets credit for that kind of game, where a lot of performances are hard to determine.
00:20:19
Who is it? The player or is it the opposition? Why did you let him on? He just came in here and just dismissed everything we just said for the last 20.
00:20:29
I don't know what the percentage chances are that you could bring someone in with a fresh perspective that wasn't listening and note taking and turning this middle what we were doing and four sentences basically like, Yeah, I think everything right and Adam were chronicling here is on the exact wrong end of the spectrum work.
00:20:45
So without boring the audience.
00:20:47
So I don't want to repeat everything we said.
00:20:49
Basically, I see this is mawr of a Kenyan Drake issue rather than a Seattle defense that could suddenly stop running the or can finally stop the run.
00:20:59
Let's not pretend that Kenyan Drake has been a good running back this season, and suddenly, you know, he ran into big, bad Seattle.
00:21:05
When I think about Carlos Hyde, I look at it the other way.
00:21:08
I'm looking at five for 22 against Seattle or against the Patriots.
00:21:13
I'm looking at four for 12 against Dallas.
00:21:17
You what? I mean, like, it's It's It's Yes, he's not gonna average six.
00:21:21
If you can average around the four, that's gonna help.
00:21:23
But he's not gonna have the type of impact that he had this game.
00:21:27
What happens, though? If Seattle falls behind and you have to start throwing the football again right, then you gotta move away from the run game, and that's any team.
00:21:34
I'm not stupid, you know.
00:21:35
I mean, I know that's any team I know. That's the way it goes.
00:21:38
I don't expect this team to balance.
00:21:41
That's where I was getting at.
00:21:42
I still expect his team because he's been there.
00:21:44
He was there, Lawrence Weeks, 1234 when they were just throwing the football when they were throwing it 1000 times.
00:21:52
They had a full complement of running backs at that point, and they were still throwing the football.
00:21:56
I think last night Arizona had no answer.
00:22:00
Arizona had no answer to stop them, so he they just kept running the football on him.
00:22:06
Whereas when you start playing those better defense is I want him to run the football like that against Aaron.
00:22:11
Donald in, in, in in L.
00:22:13
A.
00:22:14
You know what I mean? Here's something a little counterpoint to that.
00:22:17
Yeah, they were throwing it.
00:22:18
But the the the effect of the run was still there that that that threat of the run was still there.
00:22:24
And and the reason why that was you look coincides with their winds when they're when they had those running backs when they had Carlos Hyde on the field and and and Carson or, you know, ah, decent threat of a run game.
00:22:38
They were ableto win because defense's couldn't just focus in on stopping the past.
00:22:43
Now, I can't remember the exact quote, But after the Seattle game, the Patriots game, I mean, they asked Bill Belichick.
00:22:51
They said, You know, this is the record amount of rush yards your team has given up.
00:22:55
And what was your You know, you know, what does your team have to do? Thio better stop the run and Bill Belichick came out.
00:23:02
I'm paraphrasing, basically said we let them run the football.
00:23:05
We weren't afraid of their run game e.
00:23:08
I mean we're worried about their past.
00:23:10
We knew that we are whole game plan.
00:23:12
We knew they were gonna put up well over 100 yards.
00:23:14
We knew it wasn't gonna hurt us.
00:23:15
You know what I mean? So people, so people aren't fearing their run game, you know, until they do.
00:23:23
But here's the thing.
00:23:24
If they're not afraid of it, it's kind of like the flip of what happened last night, the way Seattle played, because I actually give this through the Seattle defense over Kenyan Drake.
00:23:36
And there's a reason for that because they sold out to get pressure behind the line of scrimmage.
00:23:41
They sold out.
00:23:42
They had a ton of people behind the line of scrimmage, not on Lee to stop the run.
00:23:47
But if you watch, Seattle was sending a ton of different people on a consistent basis, not only to get to the run but to get pressure on on on Kyler Murray and made Murray very uncomfortable.
00:24:00
Because Kyler Murray did not look good at all last night, especially with pressure in the space.
00:24:05
He was not able to be accurate.
00:24:07
He had no time to let Ah, lot of times he didn't have timeto toe, let his guys run his routes.
00:24:13
He was off on his throws.
00:24:15
It was just a bad situation.
00:24:18
And it is where Seattle's defense was looking better.
00:24:23
But they were selling out to do that and the Cardinals.
00:24:29
Because of that, Kyler Murray was looking really bad and like and I agree and what you're saying.
00:24:36
I also think we're reacting toe one game.
00:24:38
Seattle's defense didn't learn how to play defense over over a week.
00:24:42
You would.
00:24:43
Eso there has to be a combination of Yes, maybe Seattle Defense played better.
00:24:47
It's also the second time they played Arizona a little bit more of a book.
00:24:50
But I think there has to be contributions from the Arizona side to allow Seattle's defense has suddenly become a defense.
00:24:58
No thing for me.
00:25:00
No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
00:25:01
But just the fact that one of the things I looked at was one, uh, plus one in the turnover battle.
00:25:07
Now for Seattle on the season zero.
00:25:10
Even keel for Arizona.
00:25:11
That's indicative of teams that rise and fall week to week.
00:25:15
So one game looks better than it does in the other.
00:25:17
It just speaks back to the point that Ray and I kind of started on with this being like, I don't love either of them, but I don't know if either of these teams on any side of the ball.
00:25:24
Realistically, I you know, I don't They don't scare me overly on, especially when you think about long term in the playoffs, in the matchups you're gonna face, I don't think the team they're gonna have to take them on or going to feel them particularly have some extra thoughts about the Arizona secondary.
00:25:36
But please go ahead lines.
00:25:37
No, Ray is dead on when it comes to this game and and Seattle, as you know, the season goes on.
00:25:45
You know, this was a game scheme scheme for how Seattle played them the first time, and they just went out there that this is our game plan for this because this is the best way we know to defeat Arizona at this time.
00:25:59
You're right.
00:26:00
They can't use the same scheme next week or the rest of the season against different teams because it just won't work.
00:26:07
You can't sell out like that on a consistent basis against good teams.
00:26:11
They're going to kill you through the air, especially uh, good veteran quarterbacks that know how to get rid of that football and find where the weaknesses is when you're seeing zero blitz or something of that nature.
00:26:25
You don't wanna do that against Tom Brady.
00:26:27
He'll chew you up all day, every day.
00:26:29
No.
00:26:30
And I think I think we also, though I think one of the big key factors and Adam you mentioned at the beginning kind of briefly.
00:26:34
But we never got into a deeper conversation of it.
00:26:36
115 yards in penalties yesterday for Arizona.
00:26:39
You can't give up.
00:26:40
You gave up on entire drive and then some and you gave up more than a field in penalties.
00:26:49
And I do.
00:26:50
Guys, I don't look, Lawrence notice.
00:26:53
I don't talk about referees.
00:26:54
I always say that if you blame a referee for a loss, I would say no, no, you put yourself in a position that one call affected.
00:27:01
You be up by three scores.
00:27:02
It doesn't matter, but I want to just talk about it.
00:27:05
Not now, but at the end about that refereeing performance in general last night on both sides because I don't see anybody lost because of it.
00:27:11
That was just such a bad officiated game.
00:27:14
But you can't give up 115 yards in penalties in Seattle.
00:27:18
I mean, on the other side threw up 79.
00:27:20
You know what's laundry? Like? I'm telling you, those yellow flags were green by the end because they were so stained from from from being thrown Well, it is.
00:27:29
You know, when you talk about like, remember in weeks past, right Thursday night games, the teams on paper, we're like Jesus, and they've been actually been more interesting and more exciting games On paper, This should be one of the cleanest, most exciting fun games to watch.
00:27:42
And this was almost a little bit of ah, boys.
00:27:45
Either one of you want this thing like it stretches.
00:27:47
It just didn't feel like either one.
00:27:49
I was gonna take over and dominate.
00:27:50
I wanted we could go into that voluntarily.
00:27:52
The one thing that I just came across my mind was a couple things we talked about.
00:27:55
Metcalfe and him, you know, wants to set that standard of getting a touchdown record, etcetera, Uh, two things.
00:28:01
One in the secondary of the Arizona Cardinals.
00:28:03
Only a couple of years ago, there was that big debate.
00:28:06
What's gonna happen with Peterson? Is he staying in Arizona, or is he gonna get traded? They're gonna cash check somewhere else.
00:28:13
Fall talk about falling off a cliff, right? I mean, he is about as brutal in that secondary is you could possibly imagine.
00:28:18
So it opens up a lot of opportunities for Seattle this last game and then the secondary pieces.
00:28:24
Tyler Lockett, You wanna talk about A guy deserves more credit.
00:28:27
That doesn't get that, You know, the credit that he deserves.
00:28:29
And you just assume that it's because you're there in Seattle was Russell Wilson.
00:28:32
And you're the benefactor.
00:28:34
He's one of the more consistent receivers in the NFL.
00:28:37
Did it again.
00:28:38
Last beautiful touch pass, by the way from Russell Wilson and that right corner of the end zone.
00:28:41
But he does everything right.
00:28:42
And when you look at those stat lines and say Yes, Metcalfe had a touchdown three catches.
00:28:46
But the chain mover, the consistent player for them is lock it.
00:28:49
And that was really the silver lining of how you end up getting stealing a win away.
00:28:53
However, you wanna look at it, but getting that win is about what he was doing for Russell Wilson with consistency in that game.
00:28:58
Now I am going to defend DK just a little bit because I tweeted this out last night or early this morning.
00:29:04
Actually, when I was finishing the game and I said, Thank God for penalties because DK would have made me look stupid.
00:29:10
He Yeah, he lost two plays of about 25 yards each were on penalties that had nothing to do with the play.
00:29:20
Ah, hold that wouldn't have affected to play anyways, um, you know, he would have had over 100 yards and a touchdown and probably five catches, and his stat line would have been a look a lot nicer.
00:29:31
And I felt bad for him because the place that happened it wasn't like, Well, Russell would have been able to get the ball off because there's the hold him like.
00:29:37
No, the whole was another receiver at the other side of the field that had nothing to do with with the ball going that way, and you could say whatever you want.
00:29:46
So he did actually have a pretty decent game last night had some things negated because of bad penalties by Seattle's offense.
00:29:54
The officiating was God awful.
00:29:56
Last night, I I will put it on the table.
00:29:59
It was God awful there, uh, that last drive right before Arizona had a chance to come back and tie the football game.
00:30:06
And it was like second long, I think, and I'm sure Seattle fans know this.
00:30:13
I tweeted this out with the play to show it where, where the the defender got up on Russell layers, you throwing the football and tapped his helmet.
00:30:22
All the Seattle fans like, Oh my God, you know, that's contacted the helmet.
00:30:26
That's a personal foul for quarterback, blah, blah, blah.
00:30:29
Man, if you watched the start of that play, there was a false start from the right tackle right then, right then, and that wasn't called.
00:30:38
That was actually the second false missed false start.
00:30:42
That game Tuesday missed one in the first half.
00:30:43
A swell on and that's to place.
00:30:46
That's that.
00:30:47
That legitimately was too very obvious.
00:30:50
Do you have a line judge watching straight down the line? If you miss a false start, you shouldn't be in the job anymore.
00:30:59
e think really urgent? No, I wanted to divert its on refering and on penalty calls when you talk about a play like that where there's a holding penalty going back to the D. J.
00:31:14
Metcalf, D.
00:31:15
K.
00:31:16
Metcalf and then the taking away touchdowns, right? Big catches.
00:31:18
Is there a world where, inside of the NFL, they should be looking at that and saying What to play stands.
00:31:24
We'll find a way to reward the Cardinals for a holding penalty over on the other side of the field, but when it's away from the play and it's not an offensive line and holding so that Russell Wilson gets the extra time, But it's just a wide receiver, another cornerback going at it.
00:31:37
I know that you could get into the weeds on it, certainly, but there is a world where you go.
00:31:41
You're going to see a 10 yard penalty on the kickoff on the following dr.
00:31:45
Whatever it looks like, because there is something odd about an occurrence on the other side of the field that in no way impacts the play, taking away from from what occurs right catch or whatever it may look like.
00:31:58
I just I get it.
00:31:59
I'm not saying this is something that that would change, but it is interesting.
00:32:03
It's just it's it pops into my head of like, yeah, on a kickoff on a kickoff play when you say a block in the back that occurs on the opposite side of the field.
00:32:11
And now that it's getting murky because a guy can cross the field and make that kind of play.
00:32:14
But I think you get where I'm going, you know, you get where I'm going here.
00:32:17
Just how much should that be taken into account for? Just like if you said, ah, helmet to helmet hit that occurred on a running play behind the line of scrimmage.
00:32:26
Now the running backs in the second level of the defense, He's surgeon.
00:32:29
He's going downfield and back behind the play.
00:32:32
You see an offensive lineman with a helmet to helmet hit against the defensive line because they're scrubbing about it.
00:32:37
Should that running play necessarily get brought back on that before Lawrence gives his opinion cause I know it's probably gonna be similar to mine.
00:32:44
I do have to make one mention of the blocking in the back penalty.
00:32:48
I have been a proponent for years that the blocking of the back should not be a penalty, that that should be a part of the game.
00:32:54
It's not a danger play.
00:32:55
You're not gonna hurt somebody with a block in the back.
00:32:58
I have no problem with the block in the back.
00:33:00
I think a block in the back, especially on special teams, has negated.
00:33:04
So Maney special plays or has put a team in a position where it's literally A guy had his hand on the guys back and didn't even push and the guys tripped and fell or they crossed FIFA because his hand was on his back.
00:33:16
He got nailed for Ah, you know, a block in the back.
00:33:18
I think it's the worst penalty in football, and if you think it's a safety thing and you really want to do it, it's not a penalty.
00:33:24
You get fined 10 grand after the game.
00:33:27
If that's what you wanna do to deter it.
00:33:28
I hate the block in the back penalty.
00:33:30
I just wanna put that out there.
00:33:31
I think there's no reason you shouldn't be able to.
00:33:35
I think that there's a moment.
00:33:36
It's like when you hit a receiver, right? Uh, sometimes you put it your your shoulder into him, and you hit a defensive receiver.
00:33:45
Sometimes you hit him in the same way, but he took three steps.
00:33:48
So he's not a defenseless receiver, you know, like you can have those kind of judgments if you ran your helmet to a guy's back down the field 100 miles an hour.
00:33:55
Okay, it's an illegal block in the back, but I think a normal block in the back should not be a penalty anyways.
00:34:00
Go ahead, Lawrence.
00:34:02
All right, so yeah, the whole block in the back and defenseless receiver, I think, is exactly the same.
00:34:09
E think the penalty is for the exact same reason.
00:34:12
You know, it's you don't see.
00:34:14
The person can't protect themselves.
00:34:17
That's that's what it is.
00:34:18
And so I mean, that's that's more of, ah, whether you like it or not type situation.
00:34:23
But that's why it's there.
00:34:25
My issue here is the penalty.
00:34:28
Whether it's at the ball around the ball or away from the ball should occur because this is a team game.
00:34:35
E.
00:34:37
I agree the penalty should occur.
00:34:40
I'm just saying, should it should it should eliminate the play that occur, you know, Absolutely.
00:34:47
And I'll tell you why.
00:34:48
Because Because this is a situation where if your d.
00:34:54
K.
00:34:56
Metcalf and some other receiver on the other side is blocking another guy and you get that big touchdown, are you gonna go off to the sideline ****ed off at the at the referees, or you gonna go over there and talk to that wide receiver and say, What the hell did you gotta be a lot better about about this and be smarter because you just ruined my my big play that that's why I see it like that that makes the team play better.
00:35:19
This is something that that's why I say it's a team game.
00:35:23
And this is a situation where you you have to be responsible not only for your end, but for making sure you don't screw up what the rest of the team does as well.
00:35:33
And that's why I love this game because it is a team game.
00:35:37
Uh, not just Thio to move the ball, but to make sure that your guys, when they do do something, well, you don't screw it up even if you're not anywhere around the round it in the first place.
00:35:49
All right, now you've gone down a weedy trail that I have to jump in.
00:35:52
Go ahead, Adam.
00:35:54
I'll tell you why I hate this game. Lawrence.
00:35:57
Hi.
00:35:58
There we go.
00:35:59
And it's almost the same reason you love it.
00:36:02
The Kansas City Chiefs defensive philosophy is we're gonna hold on every play because they can't call a penalty every play.
00:36:09
Well, if that's the case, then then the referees should throw a penalty every game, make it boring, make it 300 yards in penalties. Fine.
00:36:17
Andy Reid.
00:36:18
A million dollars because his team had too many penalties.
00:36:20
Because if you're you know what I mean.
00:36:22
That's what irritates me.
00:36:23
So it's not OK for this guy to hold, but it's okay for this guy to hold.
00:36:27
It's not okay for sometimes.
00:36:29
This is Ah, hold.
00:36:30
Sometimes this isn't a hold sometimes.
00:36:31
Well, it's a whole, but it doesn't affect in the place.
00:36:33
I just like No, you know what, then? Then throw the flag on every play.
00:36:36
You know what I mean? So I get Adam's thing right again.
00:36:39
I'm like it's slowing down because I play that had nothing to do with the play took it away.
00:36:42
Yet It's a league that doesn't call a penalty when it's a penalty.
00:36:46
Go back to go back to the last drive.
00:36:48
Last night they missed, in my opinion, an obvious pass interference against Seattle, which would have given the ball with 44 seconds left to Arizona on the 20 yard line, the same exact same play that they gave the Seattle at the end of the first half.
00:37:06
It was almost identical, So one was a pass interference.
00:37:09
One wasn't.
00:37:10
And referees don't like to throw flags and those kind of moments, right? Oh, I don't want to throw a flag with 44 seconds left and I'm never throw it.
00:37:19
Never throw it.
00:37:20
What what ifit's what if it's no.
00:37:23
You know what if it's the same one you through the same flag on in the first half.
00:37:27
Throw it now, you don't even make it a part of the game.
00:37:30
And you know what? It's interesting because it also gets into that whole DeAndre Hopkins argument. It should.
00:37:34
Wide receivers get Should wide receivers be credited with pass interference? Penalty yards right? Should that be considered a catch right and it's an interesting one, and I've turned around and said Fine, but if you're the target of an interception, because you could have wrong ran because I don't know if you're gonna catch the ball just because there's pass interference.
00:37:53
But if you want those automatic yards added to your total fine if there's an interception thrown.
00:37:58
For all I know, you ran too far or ran ran the wrong route.
00:38:02
Then every yard they take back is minus two.
00:38:04
You know what I mean? Um, and any offensive pass interference, you're gonna lose minus 15 yards to your stats as well.
00:38:12
E don't think that wide receivers would want that. You can't.
00:38:15
You know you can't have the one way, not the other.
00:38:17
I get your argument of why you think, Well, I should be credit for that, but you can't guarantee me you're going to catch that football.
00:38:23
I do want to say something about the whole Andy Reid Kansas City Chiefs thing.
00:38:27
You are correct and there should be a rule amongst the referees when it is blatant that they are taking advantage of you.
00:38:36
Then there should be unsportsmanlike conduct slapped on it but that za way I see it while this isn't by the way, this is my hell to die on.
00:38:44
It was just kind of Ah, you know, extemporaneous got fired up at e.
00:38:49
Get there at some point, but what? But I think that's my point, though.
00:38:53
Lawrence, about that idea of.
00:38:54
That's why you don't call the pass interference or you don't call that a way for especially away from the ball penalty.
00:38:59
That's why you don't call it.
00:39:00
And you find a way to your point about saying, Well, then that cat's gonna go over.
00:39:03
He's gonna talk to his team.
00:39:04
But, hey, what the heck did you do there? That's why you still find a way to not have to be one of those members.
00:39:09
They, uh, 15 yard penalty on the kickoff.
00:39:11
Great.
00:39:12
I'll kick it to the end zone.
00:39:13
Who cares the idea, by the way again, you really wanna get to the weeds? The idea that when you have penalties like that that you don't pull back where the ball is kicked off from, is the is the absolute level of absurdity, because the only way to make a penalty on a kickoff have value is to say we're gonna take it from your own 10.
00:39:30
So you're only gonna make it to their 30.
00:39:32
And now they start from there every time they say 15 yard penalty on the kickoff. Great.
00:39:36
We'll kick it through the end zone.
00:39:38
You still start the same spot.
00:39:39
You always do.
00:39:40
So I think that there's a way to adjust that penalty where you'd say yes.
00:39:43
You have this penalty over here and starting on this next drive, kick the ball off normally, where they get to the 20.
00:39:48
Okay, fine.
00:39:49
You kicked it ends don't find Now.
00:39:50
Give them 15 yards moving to the 35.
00:39:52
And you're still gonna have Metcalfe going over and saying, Hey, man, look what you cost me here and then Thio Ray's point supporting My point is that then you allow for the big play to occur.
00:40:01
Right? Then you allow for that big play to occur.
00:40:03
For Metcalf, the big moves, the chains, impacts the game and and also represents, um, or competitive game.
00:40:10
True to what the teams were doing, right? That's Arizona not being able to defend Metcalfe.
00:40:15
So now met Cast.
00:40:16
That line is really Ah, five for 100 yard day because he was exposing weaknesses and Russell Russell Wilson was hitting them.
00:40:22
You know, I listen again, I need to really get into the nuance of this thing if I want to make a make a totally salient argument.
00:40:27
But there's something there that diminishes the value.
00:40:29
And we said this before.
00:40:30
Maybe I said it last night.
00:40:31
Real quick here is that when they always talk about, they always get down to the inches, fourth and inches.
00:40:37
We're gonna get out the tape.
00:40:38
What's all measure that we gotta make sure you're gonna for 3.
00:40:40
5 plus quarters.
00:40:43
It's all relative.
00:40:44
The guy gets tackled at the 26 they put into 27.
00:40:46
Gets tackled here.
00:40:47
They put it there, the elbow down, up, whatever.
00:40:49
It only matters in the finally, it's all or nothing for me.
00:40:52
Either you're totally attentive to it, or it's a little bit loose, and that's kind of the excitement.
00:40:57
Enjoy the game or really be down to the letter of the law and then throw laundry every single time.
00:41:01
The Kansas City does it because they're obviously they're taking advantage, right? The best coaches take advantage of the rules of the game.
00:41:07
Well, that's what they're exposing right now.
00:41:08
Well, yeah, And you know what it's really like.
00:41:11
There's an old hockey argument around.
00:41:12
This is well, right.
00:41:14
Do you build a team to be cut to to win the NHL season? Or do you build a team to win the Stanley Cup? Because you gotta build two different teams? Because suddenly the rules change.
00:41:26
When you get into the NHL playoffs, right? All of a sudden you can clutch a little more, grab a little more, hit a little harder, you know, suddenly whistles or in pockets.
00:41:33
And I agree with you in the last five minutes of a football game.
00:41:37
Suddenly the spot is dead on.
00:41:39
There's no moving forward.
00:41:40
There's no moving backwards, right? They will discuss where that football goes.
00:41:44
How many times have you heard it? Announcer go Well, that's a generous spot.
00:41:48
You're watching the replay, it almost thinking challenges.
00:41:51
That's like two yards up the field.
00:41:53
You know what I mean? Where it's like it is what it is.
00:41:55
But it's funny that last five minutes the inches becomes some more valuable.
00:41:59
And yet the laundry becomes less right.
00:42:02
Suddenly it's like, Okay, it has to be egregious for us to call the penalty.
00:42:06
I'm gonna knickknack you.
00:42:07
We're gonna make the first quarter so boring that people are gonna turn the game off because there's so many freaking penalties being thrown and suddenly in the last minute of the game and one of the most crucial moments.
00:42:17
I'm not throwing my flag on a blatant pass interference call.
00:42:20
I can't do that.
00:42:21
And now again, Did Arizona lose the game because of that? Not that non call.
00:42:25
No, you put yourself in that position, you you scored 13 points.
00:42:30
You know what I mean? Or 20 you know, two or 21 point.
00:42:32
What the hell is the score of the game now? 2020 2020 when you scored 21 points in a game where you got two possessions on turnovers? So you know, I'm not blaming the right freeze, but I'm saying as a casual fan who really didn't care, who won this game is that had no effect of what's happening in my season.
00:42:49
I just kind of went like, This is awful.
00:42:51
This is boring on some of these calls and then the other parts of like, how do you miss a false start? How do you miss an offside? How do you miss a blatant encroachment? Like? And that's why I think as thistles.
00:43:05
Why? I'm a big proponent.
00:43:06
I don't want you to find referees.
00:43:08
I want you to fire referees that you know these guys don't make NFL player type of money.
00:43:12
They got families to feed a lot of them.
00:43:14
It's just there part time job.
00:43:16
But Kyler Murray had to go stand in front of the media last night.
00:43:20
Cliff had to go stand in.
00:43:21
Russell Wilson, stand in front of media.
00:43:23
They all had to answer for what happened on the field. Hate, DeAndre.
00:43:26
Why'd you only have 51 yards and passing? Hey, why did you fumble the football? Hey, how come you guys couldn't stop the run? Hey, Kenyan, How come you can't run the football anymore? They had to answer for those Did the referees have to come out and say This is why we missed two false starts.
00:43:40
This is why we completely botched and didn't call an obvious pass interference.
00:43:45
That could have changed the game.
00:43:46
No, they don't and referees should have to face the media and explained to us, I don't want to hear from the head of officiating.
00:43:54
I want to hear from the referee that night in front of 30 or 40 media personnel off the team that they screwed.
00:43:59
You know what I mean with a bad call? You don't You don't want the NFL.
00:44:03
Tuesday they go.
00:44:04
We acknowledge that there was a mistake on Sunday night that we acknowledge that there was error here.
00:44:08
And I'm telling you, if referees would have to answer for their miss takes the same way players and coaches air accountable for it, you would see referees get a lot sharper or maybe used.
00:44:19
You have replay you.
00:44:21
I mean, do you know how fast the game or how much the game wouldn't slow down if they just buzzed down? There was a hold or by the Okay, So I'm glad that we walk down here, we're gonna get out the door.
00:44:31
But that's the perfect thing.
00:44:33
Is the idea that you have replay you have, and this is true of every single sport, by the way, just tell them what it is.
00:44:40
Your function is to communicate to the teams on the field and to the viewing audience.
00:44:45
What's occurring If you have the ability to set someone for every game across the spectrum every single weekend and stay holding penalty number 67 on the offensive line, bring it back, you know, just communicated in the year.
00:44:57
Nobody who cares.
00:45:00
All I care about is that, and by the way, it happens quickly in real time.
00:45:03
I don't need the huddle ups right when they go to huddle up, have them doing the bull Durham.
00:45:06
We've got a wedding coming up.
00:45:08
We think candlesticks Good idea.
00:45:09
And the guy in the year goes, Yeah, it's a whole Don't worry about it. Get back to the lot.
00:45:12
You know, I just don't understand this weird mechanism of technology, not technology.
00:45:16
It's all there.
00:45:17
It's all part of the game.
00:45:18
Why slow things down when you can just have it be so clearly and quickly communicated? This is exactly where I thought we were gonna go by the way the mainstream and I agree with you. I agree to that.
00:45:27
I say it's about technology time.
00:45:28
I'm actually not a technology guy.
00:45:30
I would rather I'm sorry technology ruined baseball from the mere fact that I don't get to watch managers lose it every game.
00:45:38
You know what I mean? That was one of the best parts of baseball.
00:45:40
Is watching Joe Maddon go out and have one of his or or, you know, go or Tim Leland go out and have a A major fit.
00:45:45
But I agree with you.
00:45:46
You have technology, the one you want, one that drives me the craziest.
00:45:50
You review every scoring play, but you don't review every non scoring play.
00:45:53
So if a guy if if a guy makes a catch in the end zone and you call it incomplete, it has to be challenged.
00:46:00
Yet the Patriots fell into a situation where they were out of challenges.
00:46:03
Nikkila Harry scored a touchdown.
00:46:04
This was last season, scored a touchdown against Kansas City Chiefs, which, by the way, would have put the Patriots up, and they called him out of bounds four yards down the field.
00:46:13
Replays showed he didn't.
00:46:14
Belichick was out of challenges.
00:46:16
Well, if he would have scored a touchdown, they would have reviewed it automatically because he didn't score a touchdown.
00:46:21
It wasn't automatically reviewed well, you know, like you have the technology.
00:46:27
So let me give you I'm gonna give you last word Lawrence on this because because to raise point, I could care less one way or the other, because you could, because the idea you have to challenges.
00:46:36
So it means any more than two challengeable plays.
00:46:39
You're out of luck. Fine.
00:46:41
It's a weird methods you want in both your great and even that is weird, though.
00:46:45
So I was right twice.
00:46:46
So I get one more.
00:46:47
What if I get the third one right? Then I should have 1/4 1.
00:46:49
If you if you keep screwing up, I should have more, but see how impaired.
00:46:53
But, I mean, how that's just indicative of how much these guys air wrong that normally, coaches, unless they're doing it like a you might as well.
00:47:01
And that's what happened with Belichick was a moment for you might as well challenged this and he lost it.
00:47:06
Didn't realize he's gonna bite him in eight minutes later.
00:47:09
But it's that's how and that your your referees are that coaches have a challenge.
00:47:16
This is like there's been a challenge and freaking, you're right and the referee.
00:47:20
Still got it.
00:47:21
Wrong s okay.
00:47:22
So here's my point, though, right? So you can either either either do it, have the have the in the ear, tell them what the deal is or do it this way in the presentation of the game.
00:47:31
Show the live, give one look at the replay.
00:47:34
Stop showing it 17,000 times because that's the problem with the product to is, what you end up doing is now.
00:47:40
If we zoom in here on his toe tap, you can see that the razor thin line and I get it.
00:47:44
But once you go into that, now that's how we're looking at the referees now.
00:47:48
That's how we're looking at every call.
00:47:49
Now that's how we're judging every single game and play, and I get it.
00:47:52
You want things to be right, But guess what? Free HDTV and pre the technology that allowed for these things and pre challenges and reviews You went Wow, What a catch.
00:48:03
You didn't know that it wasn't a catch.
00:48:05
You didn't know that half of this foot was out of bounds.
00:48:07
And it's all it's all relative and some of the excitement racing about baseball, some of the excitement of one side freaking out that they think he was out of bounds.
00:48:14
One guy celebrating, running to the line.
00:48:15
You know what I mean? Like all those elements of the game, it gets a little bit diluted and the pace get slowed down a little bit as well.
00:48:20
Here's a perfect for Lawrence finishes us off.
00:48:22
You're You're a soccer fan.
00:48:24
I'm a soccer fan.
00:48:25
How much are you enjoying the fact now that we can't celebrate a goal? Because I don't know if you're a that point, but buying.
00:48:32
I'm a buyer man.
00:48:33
Byron scores a goal one minute left in the game, and there's no reaction for me cause I'm like, Was he half an inch offside? And, you know, I don't blame the officials.
00:48:43
They said, Hey, you wanted it.
00:48:45
I don't care if it's a piece of paper.
00:48:47
I don't care if it's that much of his foot. That was offside.
00:48:49
He's offside.
00:48:50
No goal.
00:48:51
I don't blame them.
00:48:52
You guys want to embarrass us.
00:48:53
You guys want to be able to challenge everything.
00:48:56
No problem.
00:48:57
We're gonna call the way it is.
00:48:58
As a soccer fan, though I've said it to my Dad.
00:49:00
It's ruined the game.
00:49:01
I sit there and go goal and I have no reaction.
00:49:04
No.
00:49:05
And by and by the way, even soccer at least has done it better.
00:49:08
Where when they check for goals, right, did it break the plane? They have the ball technology so attracts where the ball is.
00:49:14
And when they go to do reviews, they get a buzz in their ear.
00:49:17
They stop, they hold for a second, and they wait for them to say, Now they still go over and do the review, which is a little bit silly.
00:49:23
You could tell them, but they go okay, it's gonna be review time or it's not.
00:49:27
It's a goal that isn't so.
00:49:28
They've even at least try to mitigate the slowdown of that as well.
00:49:31
And the 100% man like it goes goal and you go Maybe, yeah, maybe.
00:49:35
And I looked tight, you know, he wasn't by the way shoulder the front edge of his shoulder.
00:49:41
I could see it, and that's the difference.
00:49:42
At that point, I'm like it's a goal.
00:49:44
Even if it's against my team, it's a goal.
00:49:46
You don't get to say that.
00:49:47
The timing of that plan.
00:49:48
I know American football fans are loving this, but you don't get to say that.
00:49:51
The timing off a midfielder that ties a lofted pass perfectly with the right way to get his center, get the striker over the top of the defense to get inside, and then he times his shop perfectly picks the right side of that.
00:50:03
Beats the goalkeeper.
00:50:05
That's not worth it, and it's a front eighth of it.
00:50:09
And shoulder line was it was occupied.
00:50:12
Yeah, I agree.
00:50:13
Taking over like a football.
00:50:15
But this is what technology has done to sport.
00:50:18
But But you can see the relevance of technology and sports, though, and how it's just it's at times it's ruined it, right? It's ruined this year.
00:50:26
Celebrated Torrey piece.
00:50:28
Here's here's Here's A Here's the problem with, uh, having someone like from the officer.
00:50:35
What not called down the referee and go, Hey, there's a hole here or hey, there was offsides or hey, you missed this Called games.
00:50:44
You would never have an odd scoring game because no field goals and no touchdowns would ever be played.
00:50:50
The score would be 12 to 14 because they'd all be safeties That's the way I see it, because there is holding and and And this and there is a penalty somewhere on the field, every play, all play all the time.
00:51:04
Now, was it agreed You enough to be called.
00:51:07
That's something that, Yes, I believe that if you look in a referee, somehow missed, uh, an offensive lineman literally bear hugging and bringing someone down to the ground.
00:51:19
Yes, that needs to be called down to the referees and say, Hey, you missed this.
00:51:24
Your eyes wouldn't over here at this specific time.
00:51:27
This needs to be called because every fan in the entire world saw it and were looking like stupid idiots because you're not calling it.
00:51:35
So I get I get what you're saying, Lawrence.
00:51:38
And actually I have to bring it back to soccer because this is the actual comparison.
00:51:41
So in soccer, they won't. You can't.
00:51:44
They won't review If somebody fouled.
00:51:45
You're not unless it's for a penalty shot.
00:51:47
Unless it affected the goal, they won't say, Hey, I got hit behind you.
00:51:50
They're not gonna go back and say yes, But if it's an egregious penalty, the thing could be a red card.
00:51:56
It could consummate that you need to be ejected from the game or you were ejected from the game and you're like, Hey, it wasn't that bad.
00:52:02
They will review it to say, How bad was the foul for real? So I could see that maybe you're not looking for holds on the offensive line, but if it's a non obvious miss pass interference or holding down field or something that actually has a full effect.
00:52:16
But then here's where the argument comes.
00:52:19
Okay? So we're not looking at holds on the offensive line.
00:52:21
And then Damian Harris boss off a 50 yard run because the whole was his large is the Mack truck.
00:52:26
Is that not an egregious penalty that wasn't come by? And by the way, the NFL has made that choice coming into this season that they don't They're not calling as we know it.
00:52:34
Offensive defensive lines, right? There's holes all the time.
00:52:36
You said, like, listen, we're gonna kind of just look past some of the little stuff because we don't wanna bog the game down there, on the other hand, will bog it down over here in this readout.
00:52:44
Listen, you can even get in the very simplest, the simplistic thing of ah judge down near the end zone when they watch a wide receiver toe tap his feet and as he catches a touchdown pass, it's impossible to be both viewing if he has the ball and is controlling it and also watching if his feet are inbound, it's just you're asking too much for this to be accomplished by a single set of eyes or even by four guys across the spectrum of 100 yard field.
00:53:08
Listen, we could we could keep doing it. Friends.
00:53:11
And maybe, and maybe we all need to circle up here beyond this stream and get back into some of this stuff, as we all knew we were going to get into the referees and the rules of the game.
00:53:19
And the construct of the NFL is the hole that this is where we knew we would go.
00:53:21
We have to run out of here quickly, so I'll say we all know follow Lawrence, follow Ray.
00:53:26
Follow myself here.
00:53:27
I won't even let him.
00:53:28
It's a Friday morning, guys.
00:53:30
Enjoy the weekend.
00:53:31
I'm not gonna let Ray get into the microphone and start insulting you. If you don't have your profile.
00:53:35
Go up and create one.
00:53:36
Follow us like us.
00:53:38
Give a donation.
00:53:39
If you really appreciate the content, you're gonna have DPM Ray doing his thing.
00:53:43
You're gonna have Lawrence breaking down all of the NFL film coverage.
00:53:46
We will be back because I'm back tonight on this guy's back tonight.
00:53:50
So watch him as he does his film as he does some film breakdown and game preview work. Later today.
00:53:55
Sunday morning, these guys will be getting together to break down the entire slate of Sunday games as well for all three of us.
00:54:02
We thank you for checking in with us and we will catch up with you soon.

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